FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hey guy's

Though I would start with some project photos

Plans are as follows
Rebuild the 186, trimatic, Hr diff
Castlemaine rod shop front end
Hz master
15" smoothies
As low as possible
Billet column and moon wheel
White interior
Seat belts
Surf racks and board
Venetians
Visor

Going for a beach rod look.

Have stripped interior and started converting and painting rust (will blast and paint in future rebuild it is pretty good for now). Has alot of dodgy work in the car that will be replaced.

In south coast Nsw. Any one on here near me? I am new to Holdens. Have played with Vw before.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161218/415c6ccf9312a94a55d10d56790c1cfc.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161218/15f4292738a654515024c72116a6419e.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161218/e156d5894934cc9ab78b8416795c391a.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161218/11ff0482f2fc2ea470ab409890ed9d9c.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161218/4e8d1193de059de8f1429ede7fe95905.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161218/e55e44af0f6cce7039894b8fdee12b22.jpg)

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First photo is from previous owner

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Hi  What a great starter car..  Love the plans and you look like you have made a great start..  keep the pictures coming..   Cam

Great wagon. Hope all goes well.

Regards

Wayne b

Hi Whealey there's a couple of us in Batemans Bay. Then others further north. Give me a call if you want some help. Cheers , Mark 0431 746304


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Looks like a great project . I was just wondering if you have chosen ready built conversions for convenience or do you have a preference for these conversions ? There are plenty of guys on this forum for example ,who could help you with front end and steering column conversions and I can guarantee you will have a better unit .

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0220_zps89de3fb9.jpg) ($2)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0237_zpsa0e4821e.jpg) ($2)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0384_zps4468e5db.jpg) ($2)
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(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0210_zps7096e7a5.jpg) ($2)
Just saying there are people who can help you with bespoke stuff if you wish to do some of it yourself .Cheers Haydn

Really nice project that you've got there.
I think your plans are excellent


Haydn I think you should check your drawing again


Ken

Thanks for the number mark.

Haydn.
It already has a hr front end with a rear mouth wb rack. Having issues with the universals locking up when turning due to angle. So yes I was looking at replacement of the front end for both convenience and a better feel on the road.
As for the column I am yet to work that out. The one in the car was held in with angle iron and hose clamps to make it collapsible.
There's already an aircon kit in the car.
Trimatic already has floor shift just shudders in reverse so needs a rear build.
Have been searching the forum but not always getting the answers I was after. Still an awesome resource though.
As for more photos. Here you go(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/47e3c2fe07463d11bc8cbb2236db78f1.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/b349930cf47f31148df94a47fe46107c.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/55415bab5f693f41e8cd7bf5a7114cf1.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/58c78f9fbab3e649df7374284e32db7a.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/6ef4d33f34eafb7087b098f4a66deb0a.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/587fc294e5aebe69bed327a2d1aeb0be.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/08b1188c1614dd30c019807e26488d0d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/45cdda16834c2c9d820939640f31db2d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/ba835d5a7469d56dc5180b7f2462fac3.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/42023ef4ca51f3e0726700feaedfac5d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/2d7a41baf6d8e9983bae06f264b70dd6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/09928340338709f5752fdd5970ba2b17.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161221/689728d70f957b1266fef3f7be147278.jpg)

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Sorry vb rack not wb

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If anyone can point me in the direction of some decent posts that can help me with the mods I am looking at doing including suggested cheaper or better options that would be highly appreciated

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Hi Haydn, early Holden's are a bit like splitties, you can spend and spend then double the $ and it still a 50 or 60 year old vehicle!
You have a good base to work from and can get good results out of recoing the front end and even stock steering, unless the column and r&p was an engineers requirement. If it was passed by an engineer then don't refer anyone else to him!
Have we met thru dsk?
Cheers Mark


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Yeah ,wrong side . Oops . Anyway as for the problem with the steering column .I would make a steel cup at the bottom of the column where it should be welded to the floor plate so as to recess the universal joint into the firewall . This is best measured with the column and shaft in place as the column usually needs to go through the floor slightly higher up than original . To tell the truth my old van has the starter motor brush cover off a side plate starter welded to the floor plate to recess the uni., By moving the universal up to a position inside the floor pan it makes the angle of the intermediate shaft less and that will fix the steering . I am guessing that's a FB EK steering column or similar . You can use a FE FC steering column top section and a commodore bottom section with the expanded metal section [outer ] and make the column any length you need . If you use HQ steering arms[the short ones around 100mm from the back mounting bolt to the tie rod end hole]  and commodore tie rods you don't need what looks like adaptors on those tie rods . The shudder in reverse could be the rear mount position as the gearbox cross member on lots of conversions is not where it should be allowing the transmission to move about. Like I said you have a great base for what could be an ideal build and it looks like you have most everything you need . If there is anything I can help you with I will be happy to do so . Cheers Haydn

Hey Mark,
My name is Luke,
Not sure what you mean by dsk.
My dad does keep saying "sounds like your trying to make an old car to new"
I was chasing kombis for a while as I use to own one.
Though Holden was a better price and more parts available.
Rack and pinion and column engineered in QLD so don't know who allowed that to pass. I am in Nsw. I have to have collapsible because of 186 and the 20% power regulations.

Hayden,

Must thankyou again for taking the time out to reply. I work in aviation maintenance so I have the hand skills required. Just not alot of know how as this is my first Holden.
So you really think I am better of to rebuild the hr front that is in it now. I don't mind spending the cash on the ifs if it is a decent upgrade. Plan on having the car  for the next 40 years anyway so thought it may be a worthwhile investment. Would still like to talk to someone who has run a ifs front end.
That all said I am happy to change plans if it's not a sensible option

Thanks again

Luke.

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Hey Luke, sorry about mixing up your name, us oldtimers ain't to good with forum stuff! I thought we might have crossed paths because until January this year I had a split screen Kombi and an fe Holden. Dsk is a splittie forum.


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Did front end conversions for Rods Racks for a couple of decades up here in Qld. and have seen lots of dodgy work but never seen anything like that ,and yes if its bigger than 186 it needs a collapsible column . That's what I was suggesting in my post regarding making it yourself . My van is collapsible and its just a bored 173 and I did it to reposition the steering wheel . Guess what I am saying is it takes less money if you have more time to think about the build and you will come up with something very drivable . Haydn 

So thanks to your supportive comments (Hayden in particular) have decided to give rebuilding the front end a go. Have fitted the original column about 3" further back and it has made a huge difference to the steering. The rack won't reach the attachment points any more so cable tied it for the test. Ps live cable ties. Have a lj torana rack available if you think this would suit?
Added other photos so you can give me more great suggestions

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/1d95595fa3e9c6eef07a34ac027d3f8e.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/d4036c3fa5d5449ade1f0a5345d28210.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/fa33987fd44a0a960b4924d34fae8ea9.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/f11bd35ddc8ba57c028bd66a90948f23.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/7dc9b64fd325db9d05b88a509dd435ea.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/5271606f3c501ee20d1cedf015dbe34a.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/092e050461752cd26f5f44810be2e528.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/9f087794acfd3bc161afff9c62c62bbb.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/7597b6bf90ae56d57e7dd87b71a45549.jpg)

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Dose John kean auto tune mean anything to anyone?
It's stamped in my hr front end

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Stan Kean Dynotune?


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John Kean Auto Tune
242 South Pine Rd, Enoggera, QLD 4051
??

John 's getting a bit long in the tooth now days .I first met him back in the 70's first FX FJ club in Qld. He has been part of the brains {conversions guy] at the Qld Department of Transport for many years and in the 90,s I had a FC wagon with his first HR conversion in it  . Looks like someone removed 175mm from your commodore rack ,hence the dent in the side of the sump[I didn't remove quite that much off the rack so I have some clearance] . Just large enough on the cup at the bottom of the column to clear the uni. or the pedal may cast . By the way weld the two floor plates together before cutting the hole as you may need to patch the hole and reposition the recessed cup before welding the column to the floor plate . My rack boots barely clear grease nipples on the lower inners to give you an Idea of position . Like I said Mark message me and I can help you with all of this . What you are doing is [was] a common conversion and not only very straight forward but if done correctly [steering ,suspension and gear ratio ] will give you a reliable and easy ride . I don't like to give too much advice on the forum because not all my ideas suit everybody . For example I would go with a later model on the fire wall booster and sell the VH40 or keep it for a manual ,I say this because I would put the brake where the clutch pedal is now giving enough room for a large diaphragm booster . I only shorten racks by 155 instead of 175 and I find the bump steer is non existent ,then in doing so you have room for your oil filter and your ignition coil and you can give the UC Torana Starfire filter adaptor to someone else . In any case message me . Haydn   

There are heaps in the members build build section. Have a look through there. Mine has HR front with a 5L V8 VH rear mount rack and a column shift (EK top, HT auto mid and lower and commodore unis) LSD shortened from VS running commodore stud pattern. 


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Hi Whealey;
I just read your build post after commenting on your question re IFS's

I have done a couple of rack and pinion HR front end conversions and find them really good and no need for power steering I have used the V6 Conversion racks (they have some problems as do most) and the photos you show looks to me like it is one of his modified VB racks.

I agree with Hayden and NES if you rebuild the front end etc. you will end up with a good workable front end without having to outlay the big dollars, it all comes down to where you are intending to go I do V6 engine conversions because I like them and the rack setup works for me, NES has done the V8 and his gear is working fine but others have gone for various IFS front ends and they also seem ok (again some have had spring/shock rating issues).

As others have said it looks like you have a really solid basis for a good car maybe it just needs a good overhaul for you to enjoy it for a while until you decide to go all out.

Hope I haven't been confusing good luck with the car.

Regards
Neil H   

Neil,
Not confusing at all. Very helpful indeed. Just didn't want to spend time and money on the hr front end to not like it at the end of it all. But after further conversations with others and  hearing from the experiences on here I too believe a rebuild is the best option. To be honest I think the hardest thing for me at the moment is sorting out the column . So many options available just need to pick a donor column.
The steering was by far the most noticeable issue when driving. It felt dangerous.

Haydn, the trimatic with shuddering in reverse also takes about 5 seconds to find reverse. After talking to a gearbox builder he believes it is the box. Hopefully he is not just trying to take my money.

Also does anyone have an idea why this mod is on the fire wall. Not the pipes.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161223/bb9d1e349f2adfe60c6a30a93fde7d59.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161223/fce0b9396e7fe9c4541e740bc5fb9a24.jpg)


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Hey Whealey
When I build I try to build on a budget and this means using everything I can from the donor car, on my FB EK ute that I am building at the moment I am going to use a VT column using the breakaway tabs etc. that will make it compliant it also allows me to use the controls for the wipers up on the column as I'll being using commodore gauges; these columns are fairly short as well bring the wheel closer to the dash and not in your face and I shouldn't have any trouble with universals.

When I did the steering on my FC Sedan I used a Flaming River Steering column, universals and D bar and have had no issues even though my angle is quite steep.

Anyway as you say there are many columns to choose from.

I am probably wrong but maybe the mod on the fire wall was to allow for triple SU's I have seen similar mods done to allow for the rear carbie to fit with some of the red engine manifolds.

Again good luck mate and I think if you rebuild the front end and sort column out you will find a lot better driving.

Regards
Neil H

Agree with Neil - it looks like a mod to squeeze the rear carby in on a triple set up....

I'd say you're correct too; I used a cake tin to allow space for webers to fit, then years later replaced the cake tin with a slice of Torana floor pan to tidy the engine bay up.

Hi Whealey,

Nice wagon. I'm envious.
Where on south Coast are you? Saw a mention of Batemans Bay but not in one of your posts. May have missed where you said your location. Up late waiting for excited daughter to drop off before playing Santa.
I'm near Shellharbour.

Saw Haydn's post re collapsible column needed for larger than 186. I'm doing an FC sedan with 186 and the mail I'm getting is that I need collapsible. Hope Haydn's right!

Regards,

Martyn

  Hi Martyn
  I live in Berry and went through a lot of this building a wagon
  if I can be of help phone me on 44642631
  Ta
  Neville

I live in Nowra. Close to you Neville.
Martin. You will need collapsible due to the 20% capacity rule in adr

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Hope you all had a great Christmas. I blew a head gasket in my Subaru so that will slow down the project.

Anyway on a more interesting note

Haydn. You mentioned running a on the wall booster. Have already bought a later model dual circuit master/booster.

Everyone,
I have hr disk front and drum rear.
Should I dual boost or just boost front. Don't want to lock up the rear so was considering only boosting front.

Have a happy new year

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That's the beauty of having a mastervac, it boosts both front and rear. In my FE I used a UC mastervac with the matching front discs and rear drums. This allowed the standard proportioning valve to be used so that boost is correct between front and rear. The UC is a similarly sized car to the FE so no problems with compatibility.
You can mix and match front and rear systems by getting an adjustable proportioning valve and then setting the balance by careful trial and error.
As you say you don't want to lock the rears, but you do want the rear brakes to contribute to the braking effort.
Your mastervac bore size should ideally be the same diameter as the master cylinder on the car that your front brakes came from.
The other thing you should try to keep the same is the pedal ratio.
That is, the ratio of pivot to pad over pivot to push rod should be similar to the car your mastervac came from.

Ken

HAPPY NEW YEAR.
have removed original brake master and dismantled HQ master and booster will make a bracket to fit the master to the firewall then boost the front only through the remote booster.
Have moved gauges to under radio bracket and am looking into replacing the Under dash a/c with a combo heat and cool system, Maby a hurricane (in pic)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/365e7c3fe05e03153c61889874fb25b9.jpg) or similar (any suggestions?).
Dismantled fuel gauge and repaired it. "I think"
Bought and installed bonnet vent handle.
Need 2 speed wipers. Can anyone tell me what I have here? Think I will do the vl mod.

Now of to Summernats!

Cheers

Luke

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/1e885790b65c637e779ede427e4ccc8c.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/2ed44a5b822af960b7ce295d10fa0181.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/9873b2925b228c3977ea3ca692e98122.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/2502704c8be92499290177355b3f1bc5.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/06a2b7dfeec10358e224b90dacf76e84.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/1beed9b1dad58cceb2dfedab55df86f6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/d622b1873222c9cfaf29dc314af1fcf7.jpg)

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You have an EK single speed wiper motor

Ken

Ken is correct Delco was [retro] fitted to my first FE sedan and it seamed a little faster than the old single speed Preslite but that may have just been mechanical . Interesting thing was the backing plate on the firewall seemed to be either Bakelite or plastic and not cast . Anyway I have a 2 speed preslite motor from a 1981 series 1 Nissan bluebird on my FC van and it similar to the commodore one [same plug] but the drive shaft through the firewall is longer so it will clear my sound proofing .I have also seen early Mitsubishi colt preslite motors with the same 3 bolt mounting pattern [like the ek holden ,the commodore and the bluebird and early falcons] think it has to do with % of Aussie content laws .Enough about that ,can you give me a call so I can go through the steering column with you . Probably best if you can get an early commodore column as you will need the expanded metal tube ,the plastic bearing and retainer circlip as well as the lower inner shaft to go over[connect to] that intermediate shaft .I am unsure what is inside that column you have there so I cant advise . It may be some sort of early commodore and if so ,and if the FC steering wheel fit then you may be able to utilise some of it .

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_1414_zpsxisveytu.jpg) ($2)

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These may be of help mate . Haydn

Hi, Re the shudder and delay into reverse with the Trimatic, probably the reverse clutch pack will have the fibre facings of the plate de-laminating. This was a common fault with Trimatic. Usually there will be a pile of clutch facing in the auto sump with a lot in the filter blocking the intake of fluid. If so, will require a dismantle and repair involving a serious clean out and new clutch packs. Glenn

Have picked up a vs and plan to use allot of it in the fc. Not doing a v6 conversion but would like to use the diff and brakes to future proof for more power at a later date. Have read the posts in the build by Nes and was wondering if there are any other builds using vs or similar running gear.
Will I run into much trouble?
Mainly bought it for the wiper gear but was inspired by other builds


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http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=16976.new

Regards

Wayne b

Make sure the brakes match the booster and master


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Thanks Wayne
Nes will be all from the one car

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So I have a vs diff now and a second one available for sale locally. The way I understand it I need two diffs then I get the two short shafts and get one cut down even shorter. Then transfer/make parts to fit to leaf springs. Will be running vs brakes. In very basic terms is this correct.

For the front end I need drop spindles to support the vs Hub and brakes, front mount the callipers and adjust to suit. Will I need new steering arm

Then install brake booster and master and other associated parts and like magic your done.

Sorry for all the questions but would be lost with this forum. Only hope I can pass on the knowledge I gain from you all to the next generation

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You mean without?

I used trimmed HR drum stub axle with Pete Mallaby caliber adapters.


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Not sure what you mean by 'without' nes.
Will look into the calliper adapter

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From memory the drop spindles come with three options for caliper fitting.
HR / Torana calipers
HK to HZ calipers
Early Commodore (VB to VS)
You should be able to mount the VS brakes straight onto the drop spindle.

Drop spindles have their pros and cons, you may consider that you want to go back to a standard height spindle which is when you would need to consider caliper adapters

Steering arm would depend on your rack mount to a certain degree, but generally the short (power steer) HQ steering arms are a good starting point.

Ken

I think you will find that the spindle on the VS wiper motor is too short.
Earlier Commodore motors have a longer spindle shaft.

Ken

Hi Whealey
Mate I have done both regarding spindles, my FC sedan has drop CRS spindles and Ken is right they have a couple of drillings, FC has HZ WB rotors and Girlock aluminium calipers, originally I used the HZ WB stub axles they fit straight in and drop the front end 25mm, drop spindles that I have drop it 60mm.

On the FB EK ute I am currently doing I am using HR drum brake stubs as NES said with adapter plates, VP rotors and calipers, the adapter plates that I have used have an additional spacer at the bolt holes because the rotor has a slightly different offset and the spacer positions the caliper in the right place on the rotor.

If your rack is a V6 conversions one like I have said before your steering arms may be ok to use again just watch you rim offset.

HR drum brake stubs are a lot cheaper than the drop spindles mate when I bought mine from CRS (it was a long time ago) I think they cost me $400 now I think they are $800 if you do some digging you should be able to pick up HR drum ones for a couple of hundred and don't get sucked into the over priced ones on ebay.
Have a good look at the bearing race area on the stubs before you but and make sure they are not fragged mate.

Hope I'm not being confusing again

Regards
Neil H

Neil's on the money; I bought a set of drop spindles from CRS/Waddingtons a few years ago and they were a touch over $800. They came with engineering docs too. I run a HR disc front, CRS spindles, HQ power steer arms, Torana front mount rack (Rod's Racks), Commodore disc brakes (290mm from memory) with Falcon PCD front and rear. Steers and stops well  8)

So I have stripped the VR.
Had 8 other guys on it today buying other parts, it was funny to see.

I am still confused about some of the finer details to set up the Vr brakes.
For now have the callipers, disks, peddle and booster/master.
Will I need anything else of the car like hubs or shrouds?
I understand the settups for stubs, spindles, rotors and disks. Now would like the hubs explained. Will run commodore wheels.
Maby if I could get a pm with someones number for a chat this may be a better option.

For now will get into the column and the wipers.

Plan is to combine vr fc ek and lj torana column to produce the column I am after.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/02e8ceccadc1b1b46c2dcd9113c20d5f.jpg)

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Mate I'm running VS SS commodore rims on my ute project along with the brakes etc.

When you narrow the diff you need to narrow it to the rims you want to run as the offset of the rim is what determines the width of the diff, with my FC I had the diff narrowed by somebody else and at the time did not understand this so had the diff narrowed to the original FC width so I then had to buy rims to suit the width/offset.

With your diff you want to retain the brake backing plates etc. just as it is standard but I don't run the backing plates on the front end.

On the FC sedan I have used the standard commodore master and booster, with a couple of little mods the mounting bracket it bolted up to the fire wall with out any mods to the rod and as NES said earlier my engineer like the commonality of brake system components, the commodore booster clears the bonnet hinge in the FC but not in the FB/EK so I have to find something else for it.   

With the FB/EK ute I had decided that I wanted to run commodore rims which have a totally different offset the early holden.

The rims for the ute are 16 x 7 

Hope it helps mate, I'm currently in Sydney on a job for the Navy but only have Sundays off.
Regards
Neil H

I forgot the slip off rotor started at VR. All earlier Commodores had the hub / rotor combined. I was wrong when I said earlier that you could fit up to VS.
The dropped stubs will accomodate up to VP with the combined hub and rotor.
You will need a hub similar to what Hoppers Stoppers supply for their kits to install the rotor on.

Ken

Thanks everyone.
Mocked up the column last night.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/c8f772d4e8c50435f7107baf3a1f976e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/cb0e1aebf187f221fd1499b4e25f913f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/171cddac634799f9fdfc4edfb75e2f55.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/c4dbe4f45683f69c50ce763990800106.jpg).

I think for now I might be best for me to stick with the hr brakes and tackle the upgrade at a later stage.

Has anyone successfully run hr disk drum set up with a commodore booster/master (I have vr).
I also have a hq booster/master.
Can you over boost?

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If you use VT brake pedal set up it will bolt to the back of the booster as well as the accelerator pedal.
Then just weld a little bit of the FC pedal assemble to bolt to the dash. It isn't that difficult to do.

Cheers
JB

Have a look through 365 weeks in completed cars if you would like to see what I did.

The problem with VR master is that it is not 1 inch bore which means it is not really compatible with HR brakes. Brake pedal would be very sensitive.
I think VR bore is 13/16 ??

Ken

Ken

I also have a hq booster and master. They are 1 inch aren't they.



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Hey guys. So what hub are you running on the hr drum front vs conversion.
I saw CRS make one.

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Will hk to hg drum front spindles work for commodore brakes. Got a bloke down the road with a lot of hk to hg parts

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So you can use this hub with the VS discs.
Cheaper way is use VN rotors they have the hub allready in them.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-COMMODORE-VB-VC-VH-VK-VL-VN-VP-VQ-VG-VT-DISC-BRAKE-UPGRADE-ADAPTER-HUB-/262186176855?hash=item3d0b839157:g:c~sAAOSwZQRYgDQV

I would just use VN

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Front-Disc-Brake-Rotor-Holden-Commodore-VL-VN-VG-VP-6cyl-V6-DR15-/131982937090?hash=item1ebacbcc02:g:JQcAAOSwA3dYEEbD

I Make the adaptors for the forum members i will check tonight as i think i have a set of HT drum stubs here.

I think i have the adaptors in stock.
Dont be scared pretty easy conversion it may seem daunting but its really easy we can talk you thru it.


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/b3061f33a9651ff2c3f8f948a9c897c9.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/80e1962b77c4d167d36d4c4e3b771bd5.jpg)

Thanks fcrb26,

I do want the bigger brakes but as you said I find the concept daunting.
So if I went vn rotors would I then need vn callipers?
Thank you for the pictures that help allot.
Have been reading builds over and over and am starting to get it.

Cheers

Luke


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VR calipers are identical to VN V8 calipers. So you won't need another set- however make sure you buy VN V8 rotors and not V6 as they are smaller in diameter


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Thanks NES.
 will hunt down some drum spindles.


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Yep, HQ master is 1 inch

Ken

Hey guys.

21 questions time.

Got my hands on a set of ht drum spindles.
Do i need to modify the spindle at all to fit the vn v8 rotor?

As for the vr diff, why are you guys  buying 2 and use  the short shafts then having one cut down. Is it not the same to swap the shafts and have the long one cut down?
Also where in nsw is good for diff work? I am below wollongong.
How much can i expect to pay to have the diff?

Still playing with column and wiper motor. So many man hours for such simple things!

Thanks

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/d237e20a07eb5233fc2c05097544d5c5.jpg)

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Hey Whealey
Mate you are right re the diff I only buy one as to cost to have the work done not sure mate maybe contact Pete Mallaby and ask him (FCRB26)(sorry Pete)

The good thing about the commodore axles is that they are thicker after the spline and are not hardened so can be machined and resplined once you know the length you need. I know a guy in WA that gets them done for a couple of $100 each.

There was a guy in WA that was telling me that you should make both axles the same length but I don't agree, if you do this it will put the pinion flange 25mm off centre that is why there are 2 different length axles.

Hope it helps
Regards
Neil H   

X2. Offset pumpkin makes your Tailshaft off centre.

V8 rotors slip straight on.


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So nes, with two short shafts do i still need the diff cut down?

The reason i ask is i have found a vn diff out of a eh for $800 and was going to grab it. But if i only need 2 vr diffs at $100 ea. Use the short shafts and then weld the brackets on then i will do that
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Yes you need to shorten the housing.
If it's in an EH wouldn't it have already been shortened?
If it's original length then you will need to shorten it BUT by how much is dependant on your wheel choice and it's offset.
If it's an LSD I'd get it but two diffs cut down may cost about the same to weld up etc etc.


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I think it's VPW that can supply axles with heaps of spline and you cut where you need it. I used an 83 bronco axle in mine....


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Whealey
Mate get the EH diff the $800 it is probably a good buy when you look at the cost of having the work done unless you can do it yourself like I did on my last one.

Have a look at my ute build if you get on to the FB/Ek forum under Frankenstein.

Do you know the ratio and it is not hard to change the centre to LSD if it is not I have just done it to both of mine without having to remove the pinion etc.

If its been in an EH then you should be able to fit it straight up however you will have to change the drive shaft or at least the rear uni as the commodore is flanged not banjo.

Regards
Neil H

I have a vr booster and master from an abs car. I am not using the abs ( i assume this is fine )do i just run the pipelines straight to the calipers? No proportion valve or anything. Also there's a plug on the master, is it the brake fail switch.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170303/3445344b769848671011fb078b5246f3.jpg)

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In a VR the prop valve is in the master cylinder. The view you show is looking at it. You need to make sure the correct pipes go to the correct item. The plastic plug is indeed the brake fail switch.

Ken

Thanks ken

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How are you mounting your booster?
I have made a miscalculation as i thought the vr brake rod would reach the fc pedal if i used the vr mounting bracket.
Was thinking about re-bending the bracket to make the booster closer to the fire wall thus bringing the rod closer.
Any other ideas?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/e5efa1420ffd63b9168afba6c7968965.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/1b0047032f153cb7a008d432a56db6dc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/2024b95e22d18c798541e4fea728951c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/cb70680a5cf182502d5dc1eb52107dd3.jpg)

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Mate I used a VN/VP power booster and bracket and it connected straight to my brake pedal not sure if the VR one is different.
You could lengthen the rod.
Regards
Neil H

I used a VP and bolted straight up.

Regards

Wayne b

I cut the bracket down for the booster. Fits nicely.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/fdbfe7b607d5aa73380ee87f126d945f.jpg)

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VR commodore Wiper motor in.
VR commodore Booster master in place.
Roof racks done
Need a horn contact support and contact ring if anyone has one....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/0922d779ed056d7bac9ca6e125441fc9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/ad6049a08794ef19f00d50256103b907.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/eabb7c690740fe47c03d1afbc1d4ef47.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/05b83a4720e24c37fe38f5b53f9ae57b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/8324179c3b804b14f630a367771c4a00.jpg)

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This is a bit sketchy but I have an ek support which may fit. I'm in sa so only if you're desperate. Contact ring I have is a bit worn/grooved but may come up okay.
Great to see you got those hi tech parts incorporated into your beast. Those racks look like they will do the job when you can't fit the quiver inside but not sure they do the car justice. It's a tough one. Even harder on my ek van as there are no gutters rear of the doors.
Cheers
Clay


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I've got a horn contact support and ring in excellent unworn condition.
Price is $20 plus postage

Ken

Errol,
Haven't heard the world quiver for a while. I'm un sure on the racks too. Would like an older set but this will do for now. I actually put a box on the roof so now its storage for the guards and grill.

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So. Those on FB would have seen but need to update here.
Not much done as i am building a house but have plans to get back into it mid year with plans to finish end of next year.
Just getting it mobile again for the move.
Billet works column in pictures(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/a9200dafd78b850823219d7fb9d76c2d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/63c8cb65ca565f440bcd4a7d6ff9ba81.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/40b44ccda770dd382c0bc4e2a182207e.jpg)

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Nice mate good to see you are still plodding along and ready to get back unto it when the house is finished, I don't FB so please keep posting photos on here too.

Regards
Neil

Great to see you are still doing a little bit on the old girl . I know what its like with a project in the shed and a house being built . But I find most of the work is planned in my mind well before I get around to doing it . Just letting you know I'm still keeping an eye on your progress . Cheers Haydn

Well out of necessity i am starting the VS brake upgrade. Wanted to bleed the HR brakes and get it mobile for the move but the old bleed nippes did not want to play the game. Then went to replace the caliper but the hoses are stuck. After a few other issues i bit the bullet and started to get the last few parts together for the commodore upgrade.

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Been a while ,but does that mean you go to the drum brake stubs with calliper adaptors and widen your track still further? Can you get blank rotors and stay with the 5x108 pattern or do you stay VS and shortened commo diff ? Sorry I haven't read your build recently ,but sometimes when over shortening the commodore diff you can get in trouble with your handbrake cable mounts . Your getting to the home straight now .Cheers Haydn

Was going to shorten commo vs diff as short as i can fit it in using disks and still meet track requirments.
The track on the front issue has been spinning around in my head for days. I am happy to go to commodore stud pattern as i plan to run 17/18" custom made wheels.
Options are.

VN disks VS calipers. Uknown track change. Unless someone here knows?

Hoppers disks. 32mm track change, any stud pattern dual piston calipers.

UPC ebay disks. 16mm track change, any stud pattern dual piston calipers.

Track of the brakes is main concern as the less track i add the deeper the wheels can be.

Cheers

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Hi Whealey
Mate my advise know the offset of your wheels before you narrow the diff, I made the mistake of having the diff for my sedan narrowed to suit the original width if the FC diff and then had to try to find rims with the right offset to get them under the guards.

With my EK ute that I'm doing at the moment I knew which rims I wanted to use and narrowed the diff to suit.

Place the rims central under the guard in the back and measure from inside of rim hub face to rim hub face this gives you the width from axle flange to axle flange and easy to figure out how much to cut off the diff then and remember you need a short and long axle to keep the diff pinion in the centre of the tunnel.

Pete Mallaby on here makes great spring hangers.

I used VP calipers and rotors on HR drum brake stubs with adapter plates on the UTE and the wheel track is the same as the back so I dont believe it is any different than original. 

I have some photos and drawings of measurements somewhere if you are interested mate.

Regards
Neil

Will be getting wheels first and doing the diff that way from your previous advice.

I would be interested in those measurements too that would be great

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Sorry if I repeated myself mate  ;D :o

Yes good advice from Neil . The Commodore hubs and rotors will widen your track but these days rims with a wider outward offset are getting rarer as strut front ends tend to suffer under the load ,so most of the aftermarket rims are widened inward . This should bring your track back in [hopefully close to original  ] .Larger diameter rims will clear the steering arms and callipers nicely. It would be great if you could find someone on this forum with rims close to the offset you want and already under an FC . Then you could measure how much the rear housing needs shortening . You should then measure and check if the same offset will work under the frontend .  Sounds simple but I have seen so many people get it so wrong . Cheers Haydn

Haydn is right when he is talking about offset Whealey you will need to run at least 15" rims to clear the steering arms even with the 16"s I am running they are close because of the offset.
I am running commodore rims and as Hadyn said they bring the track back in only thing I have found and I'm sure it was mentioned by somebody else was that when on full lock the caliper will touch the top shock tower at the front, at the front because your caliper will be at the front as you have a rear mounted rack.

Just get the angle grinder out and remove some of the lip of the tower I think it was about 30mm.

Just found my rough drawing when I did my ute diff; sorry it is so rough mate hope it makes sense.
The second drawing I got from one of the forums can't remember if it was on here or the FB/EK one.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/280qw5z.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/b3tmpy.jpg)

Like what you've done with the steering too.

Regards
Neil

Always hated how big the steel booster was and the angle on the vs master cylinder.

So here's what i did.
VS plastic Booster
VS master
VT reservoir to reduce angle on reservoir. had to tap a new hole in the master for it and elongated the hole in the reservoir.
Custom mouning bracket.
Also cut bigger hole in firewall to get it closer to the firewall and to correct attach to pedal.

Now to install brakes and plumb....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/d19c37865663bdf457c9bf3cc474862a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/57b0df75a36d9f397ea29a2ab7d4667d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/7fa9823c12c092ba8bdf1f30fce1eeb9.jpg)

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Looking good mate keep at it.

Regards
Neil

Put rod hadfield 2in drop in. She is looking hot. VR caliper VN V8 disk. All went together with caliper on rear. No modification. The 2in drop in the axle gave clerance of the steering arm to enabel me to run caliper on rear and run commodore flex hose

Issue. Steering arm fowling on tyre. I think i have HR arms. Had to stack washers in behind. Any recommendations?

Also have nearly no steering before hitting outer guard. Will be running custom 15x5 to fix this(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/62c2c7efdb665bf8aa59fd0e924cb194.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/3ce9b006cf9e65e549a22c10329ee30a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/a13033549f376773f04007077db79f22.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/d5ae0a1b7fbb0cf2e1ddc47351dbea36.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/513a65a909c248b0345057add8cd9fc1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/65f7b22f750484c8822dc147b0660325.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/59fddb87bfbad00bb82324298dce683a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/a4f68a522837d2112acc49760706bce0.jpg)

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Whealy
Inevitable that your tyres will hit the guard. You can roll them. I see so many renderings of super low cars with big wheels an wonder how they can practically steer. You will have to work out a compromise between looks handling and practicality you can live with. Certainly winning in the looks department atm.
Cheers
Clay


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I guess more what i am asking it those out there running Commodore brakes, What wheels and tyres are you running Offset and width?
and is there anyone running a low car with Commodore Disks.
I have the commodore drop axles now so i have to make it work.
I know Ness Pedro and some others have similar setups but is is hard to find all the details i need through searching, also alot of the older photos don't even work
I am very happy with the clearance as far as brakes and the control arms.
If i have to i may put in taller springs to just clear.
I will be getting custom steel wheels made just need to work out sizing.

Maybe you are right Clay. I may be asking too much and should not have increased the track so much

Hey Whealey! My 304 is heavy but only have heavy duty standard height HR springs with 16” rims (205/50/R16) and have no dramas full lock until the caliper touches (which is max turn almost anyway). Can’t remember the offset but they’re not exactly deep dish.


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Hi Whealey
Mate what springs are you running? I had to go back to standard HR springs as NES said.
Your tyre profile is also too high they look like 60s or 65s come down to 50 again as NES said and I believe the offset of those rims is not enough maybe you could go to a tyre and wheel place and find out/ask what the offset of some different mag wheels are.
Are those rims 16 or 15?
I will measure the rims that I am using if you like and post it.
Neil

Thanks Nes and Neil,

I am unsure of the spring size, I am guessing that they are lows. may have to go standards or even a lift to highs

Any info on measured heights of springs when removed? I will ask some local guys (Shoalhaven if any on here can help) for a lend of some HR springs if I can to do some comparison fits.

Rims are 15x6s may even go to 15x5s as i would like to keep this car on the 100mm limit and be able to clear. Tyres are standard commo tyres so they are pretty big at 205 65 15, looking to run a 1.5 to 2 inch smaller tyre. will defiantly need a bigger spring as it already is sitting at 100mm with these tyres.

oh and anyone got some HQ power steering arms they want to move on?

Luke

Mate I originally had lowered springs with Hz WB stub axles which already give you a 20mm drop when I fitted the CRS drop spindles (50 or 60mm drop) and my 185 x 60 x 7 tyres I was touching and under the 100mm requirements, changed the springs to standard HR springs and was right on the 100mm and just cleared the guards with full lock.
Remember that the profile of your tyre ie the 50, 60 or say 65 is the percentage of the width of your tyre so for instance if you had a 185 x 50 tyre the side wall height is 92.5mm I think (that's the way it has been explained to me). 
I run standard HR steering arms the HR arms are slightly shorter I think so if you increase the length ie say HQ you may compound the closeness to the tyre.
I'm sure someone else can confirm this.
Neil

Neil is correct with that tyre profile it is wall height % of width . But rim width is also a factor .

Thanks neil. Am asking around for swaps on my low springs.

Are your hr arms spaced out at all?

Been using the tyre calculator to get it down to the mm
All this info is very helpful

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Hey Whealey
Mate my arms are not spaced out, there are I think 3 different arms which I know have been discussed here before do a search mate and you will see some photos; from memory the discussion was about the effect of the different arms on steering and I think that was why I stayed with the HR ones (it was a while ago  ;D)

Somebody on here should have a set of standard HR springs; I have not had any problem with the standard spring and have not found them too soft probably would have made the front end too stiff if I had of used beefed up springs.

Be careful with the tyre calculators mate I used one when I went looking for tyres for the new mags I bought for the sedan, before I got it registered ,and it said I could use 50 profile but when the engineer and I were doing the final checks before he did his last inspection he told me that I had to have a minimum of 60 profile to stay within the guide lines, this is WA I'm talking about maybe different with you side of things.

Always pays to double check or you may end up with a brand new set of 50 profile tyres sitting in you shed  :o ::) :-[

Neil

Thought I would show you a photo mate
15 x 7 x 60, CRS drop spindles, standard HR springs, guards slightly rolled with a guard roller I bought from ebay, 100mm under the HR cross member which is the lowest point on my car
60 profile tyres just touch on full lock if I had 50 profile no problem
(http://i64.tinypic.com/qoudjp.jpg)
Neil

Great info Neil. Will call my engineer

Found some standard springs close to me

Hey Wheatley, don’t know how you are going with the diff mods? but I have a shortened 9” diff with commodore bearing ends fitted with a new set of billet multi fit axels if you are interested.
Jim

That’s about the perfect stance by the looks. Fills up guard and only rubs on extreme travel. With the stock height HR springs you’ve got plenty of travel though.

My EK 215 had stock HR front for a long time. When I lowered it I tried stiffer shorter springs but ride was harsh. Went to lowered HR springs in the end. It flung the big block 202 around well with gas shocks and 25mm front bar. I’ve stuck with the stock HR disc setup old school lazy that’s me.


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Maby. Where do you live?

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Oakdale NSW, southwestern Sydney

Thanks to FCwrangler I now have a 9" in the making. Obviously the car has to have more power now to justify the big diff LOL.
Thinking Turbo 202.....

Am now living in Perth and have lots of time by myself to work on the car.

Should be pumping along and plan to finish to drive it back home to NSW in 2020

Went to do photos but having size issues
Will try again later.

Anyone near rockingham have a pipe bender, flair and cutter I could borrow to do the brakes.

Cheers

Luke

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Works when you attach as documents (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/ee6509d0ddb5e3e74c477952050f7a12.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/25e3314ddce5f33160432764db594182.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/304585374babb0b255cdeb9635c670a8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/0390c0ad017ebdc384e8347acfd4f9b7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/0935628b889583d665850554e1f2a918.jpg)

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Glad to see it went to a good home, looks right at home under there, any issues or did it bolt straight in.
Jim

Hi Luke;
Mate I have a flare kit and pipe cutter, broke my pender, live in Serpentine and work in Henderson also 59Wagon (john) on here lives down your way he may also have.

Regards
Neil

Didn’t waste any time putting the housing in there Luke 👍


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You’ll need plenty boost to justify that hardware 😈😈


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First up, welcome to Rockingham, Luke.  Unfortunately I don't have any brake gear, but if you need a hand with stuff at anytime, give me a call - I'm not real clever but can lift heavy things and can hold a spanner.

Be keen to catch up and see your project. I'm doing a wagon as well, though it's on the back burner at the moment due to other priorities.

Cheers,

John

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/0390c0ad017ebdc384e8347acfd4f9b7.jpg)

Hope those straps hold under acceleration!!  ;D

They look like they’re made of Kevlar - she’ll be right 😄

Hey Whealey
What size pipe are you using I have to buy new bender so let me know and I will make sure I have what you need to borrow.

Regards
Neil

Have to weld saddles on. They line up but won't bolt on. I assume it was set up for lowering blocks. It is in the diff shop now

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Yes indeed

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Thanks for the offers guys

Will be running 3/16 and 1/4 brake lines

Keen to catch up with the locals on any weekend for a coffee. Just PM me.

I am sure the straps will be fine until I upgrade the engine. They are pretty strong

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Very kind Neil thank you.

I live in wellard and work on garden island. My ship will be in Henderson soon

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Hi Luke
My company does work on Sirius's engines so know where you are coming from mate PM me your number and I will give you a buzz so we can catch up.
Happy for you to borrow the gear mate.
Regards
Neil

Hey Luke
Hoping to have my FC sedan registered by Christmas.
I spend a fair bit of time on the south coast , I’m going for the beach cruiser look as well. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180710/5ed19ea08a8e8d1fba155b2c953b5317.png)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180710/13cd9538a6e9127d3a8ec5be77dc2071.jpg)
Butch


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Hi Butch;
Welcome to the forum mate.
Looks like you have a pretty good base there and its good to have a goal to work towards.
Were are you situated and would love to see more photos and a bit of background on your ride, I can see she has coped the old sunroof cut.

Regards
Neil

Will have to go cruisen. I will be back in 2020 though....

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Hi everyone.

So my after 9 months at sea I returned to Australia and my Perth posting got cut short. Dad and I had to jam her back together to move back to South coast NSW.

Unfortunately this means I don't have the 6 months of bachelor time to play on the car but it does however mean I am back home with my family.

Time is tight now but getting back into it.
Probably going to simplify the build alot to suit tighter time frame and start enjoying her.

No longer going to fit the 9" as this saves alot of messing around with brakes wheels and tailshafts. Will be for sale in the future if anyone is keen. All the hard work is done.

Also going to run hoppers HR kit on the front. I know it's pricey but can afford the money and have very little time to get in the garage.

2020 was the original goal but now more likely 2021 or beyond.

Good to be back, cheers

Luke

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191128/1118e99d5ecc3e696c60f938c7fe6670.jpg)

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