FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Gday all,

Well this morning I decided to drive the FC to work early in the morning with a bike trailer hooked up ( 1968 Yamaha Scooter on Board).

I got 500 meters up the road and halfway around a small roundabout and there was a thump sound, like when the car jumps out of gear, following by a banging sound.

I rolled to stop of roundabout and popped the bonnet, but due the darkness I could not see anything visual.

I checked all the gears in box a made a decision to nurse the FC back home, very noisily when under load.

So I am thinking clutch plate as I parked the FC back in the carport (trying not to wake the neighbourhood)

With a torch I had a quick look and could see nothing visual, the tailshaft was still in place, no oil leaking and took the motorbike to work (not the scooter a Suzuki M50) ...freeezin cold in SE qld too

Due to the long shifts I work I wont get home until late tonight and the same again tomorrow so Friday I will get some daytime to sus out what happened

I don't think its a crash box as I can select all gears including reverse??

Any suggestions appreciated, ohh and it is a red motor as well

Thanks

Tim

It's an unusual fault being noisy under load after a thump. It could be a pressure plate failure or clutch plate like you suggest. Is it a grey clutch or red clutch? Grey clutch is a little undersized for the red motor.
I doubt it's a Uni as the tail shaft probably would have dropped out.
I also don't think an engine mount would be the cause with the sound you describe.

Ken

Going around a round about with both wheels moving at different speeds I would guess axle or diff but you were able to get home. I sheared spline off one once in same fashion going around tight corner but wasnt going anywhere after the fact. Tail shaft spinning with no noise. Was in a hj with banjo diff. Sounded like a shotgun going off under the rear.
Dan

Sounds a bit like when I broke a spider gear. Think that's what they are called. The ones that take the axle spline. Took a tooth off. Managed to limp home but noisy. I knew straight away it was the diff though. I was hammering it out of a standing corner.


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Some places to start

Eliminate the motor first:
a) clutch in, sitting still in the driveway, take the motor up through the rev range and check for noise. Have someone watch the motor as you do so - if it "rocks" (rotates) excessively, look for a torn engine mount.
Check the diff in an unloaded state:
b) jack the rear of the car up and spin each of the rear wheels by hand, listening for noise and feel for the "gravelly" feel of shot bearings/chipped teeth.
Check the driveshaft:
c) jack the rear of the car up so that the gearbox rear seal isn't flooded. Undo the rear uni and take off the driveshaft (put a baggie over the gearbox extension housing to catch drips, and another on the driveshaft to keep crap off it. Take the driveshaft out from under the car to where you can see it, and look for failed bearings. Replace.
Start your running checks, engine first:
d) Go for a gentle run, and on a nice straight stretch move to neutral and turn the engine off (need to be careful doing this one). If the noise persists, it's definitely not the motor.
e) With the motor running, see if the noise changes with the clutch in/out.

Cheers,
Harv

Yes ,process of elimination , back axle on stands and run out of gear and then in each gear ,feathering the clutch , then at idle in low gear and load each rear wheel . I suspect as Errol 62 that you have damaged a diff . Cheers Haydn

What is the clutch fitment to a red motor engine and crashbox???

Are the pressure plates the same for red / grey motors??

Could it be red motor pressure plate and grey clutch plate for crashbox spline??

Tomorrow will be the day when I get a chance to have a proper look and analysis the damage

I didn't think it would be a diff as I was able to turn around and get back, oi nly removed the diff a month ago and it all looked ok.

Thanks for the suggestions

Tim

The clutch plate used in greys was an 8" unit. This was changed to an 8.5" unit midway through the EH run. It is quite common to run the 8.5" clutch plate with the grey pressure plate. Not sure if the red pressure plate will fit to the grey motor.

Cheers,
Harv

Could also be the thrust bearing seized, they make a hell of a noise when they don't spin.
Jim

A quick inspection this morning with the FC on stands and its not the diff.

You can turn the engine over by hand but it makes a noise when cranking with starter, then the starter locks up with the solenoid clicking, its struggling to turn the engine over.

So now the gearbox has to come out ...possible flywheel or clutch I think

Ohhh well its the fun of having an old car.

Will take pic's when I get the gearbox out.

Tim

Many ,many years ago[1986] my older brother looked at my FE sedan set up which I thought was mostly stock .336 diff, 6x13 reversed ,EH stubs and brakes on the front , heavy duty suspension all round and a worked 138 [midget speed car donor] engine . His only question was " Does the red motor starter lock up on the sideplate flywheel ? " Anyway it sounds like your on the right path and the problem will become obvious when you pull that box . Cheers Haydn

That's the joy of these old girls. If it was a modern thing you wouldn't know where to start.


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So i finally got some time to look at the FC issue and decided to put the car on stands and start at the gearbox inspection plate to have a look inside


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/Airfireman/July%202016%20123_zpshhqqsawp.jpg) ($2)

So my gearbox is like a Collingwood supporter, missing and broken teeth.....strewth

The only issue with removing the gearbox was getting too the top starter motor bolt, with the firewall being so close

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/Airfireman/July%202016%20124_zps3g0mzkn6.jpg) ($2)

Then to my surprise there is $80 written on top of the box,!!!
This is the issues i expected when buying someone elses rebuilt car

Final result was the input shaft bearing collapsed, I couldn't see where the teeth were from but I suspect the input shaft
Not good

At this time I will fit another 2nd hand box due to a shortage of $$$ needed  for an upcoming international holiday$$$

Are parts available to rebuild box??

Thanks

Tim

At least you found the problem. These boxes are marginal strength behind anything more powerful than a stock 149. The trouble is fitting a stronger box generally requires surgery to the trans tunnel and front body cross member. There are exceptions however and some of the old steel case Toyota boxes were used in the 1970s. Craig A on the FB EK forum fitted a red and trimatic without floor mods by lowering the motor and moving forward but this requires mods to front end cross member and radiator support.

On my EK sedan I modified the trans hump with fabricated reinforcement for the cross member and rear box mount. For my EK van I am grafting in an EK auto tunnel so it will look factory and o can fit a repro vinyl floor mat.

Have fun with it.

Clay


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$80 back when decimal currency came in still would have been cheap me thinks

An ice cream in a cone was 5c. Now what at least $2. That works out to $3200 in todays money.


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Good to see you found the cause of that bang.


Yep, you can buy a full overhaul kit from Rare Spares. If you get stuck for major internal bits (like whatever those teeth came off) give me a yell, and I'll find something in Harv's Crashbox Spares Department. Special ultra low price (gratis) for any task that keeps an early Holden on the road  8).

Cheers,
Harv

Tim, there is a special spanner available for removing the starter motor.

(https://s32.postimg.org/8co3gw7s1/image.jpg) ($2)

The other way is to get two long socket extensions so that you can get the ratchet spanner forward of the exhaust pipe.

Ken

Ahhh, that's what that tool is for, wondered why me old man was collecting bent ring spanners  ::) , time to raid his collection  ;D

Thanks all for the info.

$250 for the gearbox kit,,strewth looks like you get 2 bearing some gaskets and a seal then I need a possible input shaft syncros etc etc

I needed one of those spanners, what a pain that 1 top starter bolt was.

What I do need to invest in is a workshop manual,,,any recommendations???

Thanks

I'd suggest Harv's FB-EK Crashbox Enthusiasts' Guide (sorry, don't have the link to hand).

And just having done a crashbox rebuild myself, I have a few tips -

Use an old vegetable knife as the rear bearing retainer expanding tool,
buy a good quality pair of snap ring pliers,
and if the rear bearing is a double-row bearing, and it feels smooth to turn, re-use it.  Don't even remove it from the gearbox case.
You can fake the mainshaft installing tool with a length of 1" water pipe, a long 3/8 UNF bolt and nut, and a few washers.

Rob

Genuine is best, there is one in the auction this year ;D

Ken

Hey Tim

If you still need a workshop manual I have a spare you can have

Pm me your postage details

Cheers Gary

Link to the Guide here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/141577453/FB-EK-HOLDEN-THREE-SPEED-CRASHBOX-ENTHUSIASTS-GUIDE

Have a read through. If you are game enough to do the rebuild yourself (it's not too hard), I can lend you the tools. Post 'em back to me when you are done.

Cheers,
Harv

The best crash box I ever had had both end bearings replaced with brass bushes . Does anyone on the forum know if that was common . At the very least it stops the box from jumping out of gear . Haydn