Print Page - Rear Axle seals

Is there any trick to getting these blasted axle oil seals out? Ive been trying all afternoon.
(http://s32.postimg.org/8xgownmgl/WP_20160515_14_45_33_Pro.jpg) (http://s32.postimg.org/juy3fiq2d/WP_20160515_14_45_09_Pro.jpg)

and while we are at it any tricks for putting in the new ones? Any advice much appreciated.

Regards Rod.

I made this crazy puller out of scrap, cos I don't have the proper puller, does the job ok

(http://s32.postimg.org/esd6kte9d/image.jpg) ($2)

Undo the bolt, slide the small piece in and line up with a pair of pointy nose pliers, then thread the bolt in and tighten till the seal pulls out.
Putting the new one in is easy, tap in with a large socket which is just smaller than the tube size.

Ken

Thanks Ken, Great idea. I will try and make something up.

So where do these gaskets go. There were definitely no gaskets like this on my vehicle. I realise they are for different models such as FB EH etc. they came with my Banjo diff gasket.

(http://s32.postimg.org/v9vq2j2t1/WP_20160515_15_32_50_Pro.jpg)

There is a special tool made by litchfield for removing seals http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0262-5000985/mechanical-workshops/seal-remover-and-slide-hammer-kit-litchfield-model-e609a-159573-262 ($2) while it's not much help to you just now unless you have a mate with one. Keep an eye out for one, I picked up mine minus the middle size for $4 in a second hand store. People didn't know what it was. Did my axle seals with it and also gearbox extension. Its also for pinion seal. The original holden seals sure put up a fight. Basically a tapered coarse thread (saw tooth style angle on on front not on back) that winds into seal and is hollow for output shaft etc to fit in.

I didn't use my gaskets as they were not in place when I pulled it apart and I couldn't imagine at the time why they would be needed. I had thought they were for diff oil lubricated bearings from later model holdens and Rares just did a one size fits all gasket kit. Still had holden seals with leather I think from memory. Read a post of someone suggesting gaskets could prevent brake fluid leaks into bearing. Didn't investigate that myself as I had wheels back on car at that stage. Modern bearing seals are far superior to what they were so I haven't bothered with gaskets.
Dan

Thanks Dan sounds like you used a lot of common sense. Im still learning but loving it. I really enjoy working on the old girl and as time goes by I am finding that I am able to fix an awful lot. I have a go and ask advice from more experienced people in here. I've found everyone on the forum very happy to give advice even when I ask dumb questions. The blasted seals are still in there, Ill spend some time this weekend trying to remove them. I will attempt to make one of Kens home made seal removers however that may take me some time in itsself. ;D

The guys on here are a great wealth of information. I had been reading the forum for years before even purchasing my wagon. I have learnt a lot that has helped me greatly. Now I'm in a position to give back in the way of my learnings. I thankfully have a trade in a related field which also helps. In terms of axle bearings I'm only 18 months ahead in that journey.
When I did mine I had made a tool not unlike Ken's, only difference was a made mine a slide hammer not a puller. Only reason I did that is I didn't have an idea of sizes as I made it before I pulled everything apart. It was same idea of pushing a bit of flatbar through horizontal then manipulating it vertical and connecting all thread ( continuous thread bar) and putting on a gym weight as a slide.
If you have any mates with a slide hammer kit you could borrow you could do as per pic. Use two leg attachment reverse legs and hey presto rip that sucker out. As said these steel bodied seals are tough suckers.

(http://s32.postimg.org/yv2jjljk1/images_2.jpg) ($2)

Hope this pic comes out in correct rotation :)
Dan

I forgot to mention I didn't use my tool in the end due to finding my special tool a couple of days before I did the seals.
Just in case the reverse jaw explanation needs clarification for anyone. Here's a pic
(http://s32.postimg.org/621yoc3ep/CG240_H.jpg) ($2)
These slide hammers can be cheap if you get a made in China version and don't abuse it. Personally I'm waiting for a litchfield set to show up. Missed one few years back and didn't realise how hard they are to come by.
Dan

I had an engineer friend of mine make me a slide hammer many years ago . It weighs probably around 15kg and over the years I have made many specialised ends [tools] for it .It has a simple heavy thread on the front and to pull these seals I just screw a heavy cup head bolt on it and hook the inside of the seal and slide the dumbbell . I just thought this might give you some ideas . Cheers Haydn

Well I finally got the rear axle oil seals out using a slide hammer set up. Thanks for all your help guys. I found out that the rear gearbox oil seal was even more difficult to remove. Half way through Mable and I had a discussion got the cold chisel out and what do you know Mable gave up finally. Out popped the seal. Hopefully she will be kind from now on instead of fighting me all the way.

(http://s32.postimg.org/rb0g6it1h/WP_20160521_16_23_29_Pro.jpg) (http://s32.postimg.org/gyljzx72d/WP_20160521_16_25_36_Pro.jpg)

Now have a new 3.55 ratio diff, new universal joints and tailshaft yolk. Tailshaft cleaned and repainted gloss black, new rear gearbox seal, new axle bearings and seals. Ill be so glad to get back on the road and try out the new ratio.

Regards Rod.

Good work!
I had to take an extension housing seal out of a spare housing I have, it was a genuine seal and had to be machined out in the end. So glad it wasnt attached to my vehicle otherwise I would still be trying to get it out. Seal I just changed in the car I was ready for a fight and it near fell out but was a modern seal.
Please report back to the forum how you get on with the 3.55. I'm very interested as I am changing tyres in a quest to lower revs but am considering the 3.55 if I'm still not happy.
Dan

Ok now have new rear axle bearings on, and new axle oil seals to fit. The new oil seals are much narrower than the old original ones. I hope they will do the job. When I put the axles in there are two plates that need to be fitted. My plates were top and bottom (I think) however in the book it shows them as front and back. Does it matter which way they go on? Secondly where do those square paper gaskets go, is it in between the plates and the banjo housing?or between the plates and the rear of the axle?

Lastly does anyone have a diff plug for sale. I still have mine however it is in very poor condition and stripped on each of the edges. If anyone has one I would love to hear from you.

Regards Rod.

Two half plates go behind and sandwich the banjo flange between axle plate and the two half plates
(http://s33.postimg.org/cqq6qocyz/1464294352422_1931240522.jpg) ($2)

(http://s33.postimg.org/d9x5szcmj/14642945332241681227715.jpg) ($2)
This pic shows where gasket sits. Pic looks to be incorrect from memory in regards to where bolts sit. I used pins in all four holes made from shanks of extra long bolts as per workshop manual. If you don't have a manual grab one. Can get tatty covered ones for $25 up to $125 pristine.
When you put in axle and bearing first starts to enter bore you will feel resistance. It wil feel spongy as the air between the seal and bearing struggles to escape from this area. Sealed bearing one side and seal the other makes it difficult for this trapped air to escape. Try to support axle off seal best you can to prevent damage and rework. Gasket looks like it is to prevent oil loss onto brakes. I obviously didn't refer to the book on the gasket when I did mine.
I f you have a mildly rounded plug just use a six point socket. Use until you find a replacement.
Dan

Rod. Disregard my sentence about sandwiching different housing flange and assemble as per pic. Memories came flooding back after I clicked post. Pins if you can find something to use will be of great help to assemble all these bits. Can be done without though. As said in previous post grab a manual it is a great read and very helpful.
Dan

Hi Dan (DCE80) Just wanted to let you know I took Mable out after all the repairs, mainly to see how the new 3.55 ratio diff would go. Wow what a difference to the car! Its so much better. She revs out much more in second now and has a much more leisurely top speed now. On the long uphill areas I can put her in 2nd and just pull up the hill, before she revved out I dropped her into top and she died, then back to second till she revved out then back to top and so on all the way to the top. None of that crap now she just sails up the hills in 2nd, Im going much faster when I put her in top and she pulls just as well.

So glad I made the change, no diff or axle noise from the new diff and new axle bearings, no oil leaks and the car is just a better car to drive in my opinion. Cant for the life of me understand why Holden ever put a 3.89 in them in the first place. Seems like very poor engineering, its not like they were setting it up for the drag strip or anything.

(https://s32.postimg.org/n2x9gjt1x/WP_20160522_13_20_16_Pro.jpg)

Thanks guys for all the advice.

Rod.

It will be interesting to know what the speedo reads against gps. I use an app on iPhone called speedometer (funnily enough). As a surveyor I have compared this to survey and mapping grade gps and its within 1 km/h at 100 km/h. That is as accurate as any speed camera/gun. Most modern cars seem to read 5 to 10% high.

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Thanks Rod for reporting back on how it all went. Great to hear Mabel is more enjoyable to drive. I think I'm sold on the diff change for mine. How does it go at really low speeds in second? For instance going around tight corners at intersections when not stopping. I do mostly city driving and am concerned about times when 2nd is a struggle and I can't grab 1st, this scenario I'm thinking might be made worse. That said having country drives would be so much more enjoyable without the poor grey screaming away.
Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan, I found slow corners no problem in second. It actually seemed easier to drive. 1st goes out a lot further and even though my poor old engine is tired and smokey there was more than enough power to take off. Had to slow down for a few roundabouts, took it in second and just drove out easily. Its so nice not hearing the old grey scream at low speeds. She was really happy at 60mph. I reckon she is way better now on those long gradual climbs. I tried to test her out on all scenarios. Couldn't fault it.

Rod.

I'd like to see one landed using the gps used in phones. Plus or minus 5 metres ain't quite good enough for position. Whereas the speed uses the Doppler principle rather than position. Same as the old police radars.

Sorry bout hijacking the thread Rod.

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Thanks again for the feedback Rod. Positive results for sure. I'm about to change tyres ( currently to small) but if I'm still not 100% happy diff change for certain. I think you have provided food for thought for many people with your road test results.
Cheers
Dan

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