FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Can anyone tell me if when fitting a v6 does any part of the motor foul with the firewall, and also the section were the wiper motor sits is it possible to bring it forward and make it level with the rest of the firewall meaning flat all the way across.
If this is possible then it will create more room under the dash for my air con unit because I'm already running a cable wiper that mounts on the inside, anyway just wondering if this is possible when fitting the v6.

Cheers Frankie.

The rule that most engineers follow is that the engine must not be closer to any body part by anything less than 10mm. So I'm pretty sure you can do that but I'm not sure which v6 you are running as the early ones had an engine bit sticking backwards. I think the vs onwards didn't so it should be ok. Also, I think the thickness of material for rack mounts is preferred to be 8mm by engineers. May as well just go more than less anyway. I think the area of concern is moreso the sump clearance with the rear rack.

So since we are both in the same boat I would like to know for myself what clearance I should weld the rack brackets from the front x member or if anyone has a photo. I have ht steering arms and hr drum stubs that I plan on using for the front.

This all ties in together so I would like to know what people who have done the v6 conversion think or put up a pic (I'm just double checking) but I'm wondering if anyone has a pic of the engine mount location for the v6 vs engine.

Frankie I think this is the area that affects the sump clearance the most.

Also fellas, it's a no no to use the soft rubber mounts on the v6? Most I've seen use red motor mounts and adapt the top part. Did engineers prefer welding or a bolt up plate setup?

Here's some pics for this discussion. I'm wondering if the mounts can be lower and inner more than these ones. I'm gathering it might be possible to have them right in further to suit Steve's needs with the v6 if he uses the shorter hq power steer arms? Is this logic correct? Also in my opinion I think I would prefer to modify brackets to suit rather than notching or modding original components. Have you seen this Frankie, the idea a lot of guys have used for speaker fitment? (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/28/522981a06eb299660bbcdae91603835d.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/28/212413ca33a2f38f4815daa66c3bebe5.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/28/e4abc44b9e2a6e3998e3ff0a17b438ab.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/28/8f2d2f54f2572b46561094db3136c654.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/28/609b1da24b7dbf1f8b6e50eb1faa6f81.jpg)

Hey Deano looks no different to the setup I made back in the 90's for my fj limo, and I might just wait and have another look at it because it is coming into my worshop in May through to July, I am fixing some small bits of rust and touching up the paint for him, he wants me to do it because I built the car 20 years ago.
I will get some measurements of the front end but not sure if it will be the same for the v6 conversion as I put a chev in that car with the scalloped front crossmember.

Yeah We have the modded front. I think your going to be ok with it. It's just the tunnel that needs to be bigger. But I was hoping someone would have a better pic from down back.

I have a complete floor out of a vs commodore that I will be using

At first I was not going to get involved , but I do have a few thoughts . I always try to get the motor position as far back and as far down as possible . We would use the shorter HQ steering arms and mount the rack as close as possible to the cross member [in fact so close as to have the grease nipples touching on the rack boots] also can remember using a boxed style mount flared wider closer to the cross member ,and adjustable so as to allow for different height spindles[washers above or below the rack on the mounting bolt .Anyone who has seen a Rods Rack will know what I mean] . This style mounting will require plenty of modification to the sump well and pick up but I would much prefer this option than the fire wall job . If you are using the flexible drive cable type wipers then I am no sure why there is a problem with the shape of the firewall . Some of these wiper set ups have a flexible inner with a solid fuel line type outer , so you may even be able to go straight through [across]the recess with a rubber grommet at either end . So there are a few ideas you can play with . Cheers Haydn

Crossmember photos that Deano posted are mine. The mounts on it are for a VT V6 ecotech engine with V6 conversions adapters and had plenty of room to firewall with out mods.

I then changed to 5L 304 using same solid mounts on X member and still can slide my hand down firewall.

Careful though as moving the firewall will give less room for whatever aircon or heater unit you go with. A/C is paramount in mine and so biggest one I could fit was a must.

There are so many ways to skin the cat...

With the ute my intention was always to have the thermo fans from the VT fit, as this was the way I did the van with the V6 in it. It was a Cairns car that never even got close to overheating.
So my measurements started with the thermo's, then cut enough out for the engine to fit and mounted the VT floor pan to suit. Lots of mods, and if I had known about the wiper you are using earlier I would have changed that on the ute as well... But I have something getting sorted for that bit that I will leave for later on to show everyone.

Thanks guys and Haydn for the finer details about the rack and my thoughts about the hq power steer arms and geometry. I know you worked at rods so it's good to know there's room to go forward with the rack. I think with the 327 it's pretty easy with setup but I wanted opinions from you other guys so I'm glad you are verifying with Steve about the firewall clearance for his intended mod. I'm close to doing some trial setups for my rod brackets. I might mock it up with my hg arms and see if I can find some hq ps arms around and take some pics for ppl. Steve I'm sure there's plenty of those arms your way. That bloke would have some if u need them with the new wreckers but I'm sure u can get some cheaper by then. I'm sure Ken said the hr ones are ok. Haydn, so does that decision to mount it right forward near the nipples hinge on the use of the ps hq arms exclusively? Or does it work just as well for ht/g arms? We are both using hr drum stubs (well we have them already)

Wow great info guys and much aprreciated, but the firewall mod I'm asking about is just the section were the wiper is mounted mainly so I can get my air con unit in a lot easier, or if this is not an option then maybe cut the dash and move it forward, this is all about the aircon the rest I will deal with as I go but my unit will arrive this week and I know it's 325mm deep which is not enough under the dash but if I can get me another 100mm I will be happy. And your right about my wiper Haydn it does work on a cable which is really simple to mount and in fact it will mount behind the glovebox so that's not an issue.
Thanks again the info is priceless.
Frankie.

Plenty o room

NES is spot on. Plenty of room. And as JB says, there are many ways to skin a cat.

Although not relevant in your situation, I initially used a cake tin to create a space for my triple Weber manifold. Round 2 saw a piece of floorplan from an LJ Torana utilised instead.

Regards,

Josh. 

Are you guys saying plenty of room for the air con unit or motor, the air con has four front outlets I will post a pic when it arrives, it is also a heater so I need the space to route the hose out of the front, it's not an underdash  type so space is limited.

Your initial question is re the wiper motor. Plenty of room.

Depends on your aircon unit. I jammed a vintage air in mine with no firewall mod and lost the glovebox.

Hey NES my original question was were the old wiper motor sits and the area that it came from, it's the section of firewall I'm asking about and if I bring it forward into the engine bay will it foul with the motor or not, and if I can do this it will give me room under the dash for the air con unit, as soon as it arrives I will post a pic to make it easier to try and get what I'm trying to say cheers Frankie.

Frankie , what I was saying about the flexible drive cable type set up was that I looked at Morris 1100 as when I was a teenager my older brother was a FX FJ nut and these type of motors were thin on the ground back then because everyone used them because the wiper arm splines fitted . Some of the Landrovers and Jaguars also fit the FE FC, not sure what yours is ,but I'll get back to the point I was trying to make .When Wayne and I were fitting his air con ,the 4 ducting pipes ,the modified glove box, the controls through the modified speaker grille and all the extras I realized that using the commodore wiper motor and the original linkages was probably a mistake [blood running freely from the back of my hands trying to fit the clip on the wiper arms under the dash] . So on my Vauxhall I run the Morris mini set up, and the problem with it was that the drive cable is very short so I had to put it where the glove box was, and move the glove box over . So here it is ,the outer tube on the Mini set up is steel fuel line and flared where the drive gears mount on and at the end where the cable finishes . So what I was thinking is that you could do the same and replace the outer with ,say stainless ,copper or steel tube between the drive cogs and just drill the recess [in the fire wall] ,put a grommet both ends and it will run across the recess where the wipers originally were and be an interesting one off mod . Or is it that your air con unit wont fit unless you move the fire wall.The glove box is easy Wayne got his custom built[three times I think] but in my old FC van ,I use a series 1 Datsun Bluebird plastic one [has a inbuilt map light] cut down to fit .By the way I still have that little old under dash unit if you get stuck . Cheers Haydn

(http://i.imgur.com/gHBRxwr.jpg)

Plenty of room FrankieJ

Regards
Neil H

Looks good Neil. Haydn man, u stole my thunder slightly with running the cable through rolled stainless. I got my setup here now and there's a great article a pommy bloke wrote about mods to make this system better. So what wiper arms do you suggest for fe you older wise ass fellas 😄. I found some nos ones and I also got me a lucas motor and a spare universal hot rod motor which already has 2 more wheel assemblies ;). So I'm pretty stoked all for only $125. So what I think I will do is conceal one for the fc taxi and do another for the fe custom. (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/02/8d60baf46ad6398859501d6ad935568a.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/02/40a3162fcc4a830f6396c8fcff08379d.jpg)

So, I think this is the only non original mod the taxi will have but nobody should be able to tell cos I'll install everything else the same again on the other side to make it look like its got a vacuum system. The beauty about this is you can route the cable around things, doesn't have to be straight. I think I will line the tube with something like roller doors have to make it glide and make up some service holes to apply graphite grease (most probably a tucked away tube) periodically.

Hey there Haydn thanks mate for all that info but the wiper was never the issue or maybe the rum was talking haha who knows, but like I said I got the wiper sorted I just wanted info on if I could move the top of the firewall to make more room for my air con, I recieved it today and I will post some photos stay tuned.

I have posted some pics of my new air con unit in my air conditioning thread if anyone wants to check it out cheers Frankie.

Firstly , sorry Deano I wasn't aware . Mate I'm not really that old I've just been playing with old cars all my life. I would assume that the splines on the drives [the bits that come up through the cowl ,in the workshop manual page 27 called a pivot] are the same as early holden [there are plenty that are and I am not able to name them all but I used 60's morris because I know they fit] ,and that's what I found at a swap[money is always a factor as I am a disabled pensioner] .Because I used a morris mini motor the lack of length of the inner cable was the reason I put it where the glove box was . Be aware that there are different pitches on the  cables and therefore there are different cogged drive gears[on the pivots that go up through the cowl]. The rusty motor in the picture hanging in the shed is Hillman and is similar to early morris minor [has the chuck type pivots and a different pitch] and is totally different to the later morris . Secondly in your picture it shows the motor positioned between the two pivots .Did you do this to fit it ,or is it the way you bought it and are you aware that you can swap it around and put the motor at one end . Ok so I lucked out with the mini pivots  fitting through the FE-FC pivot spacers and nuts ,so then I needed very short wipers because  the Vauxhall has a 80mm chop . I found a set of torana [maybe LC] wipers and drill out the rivets that hold the compound arms[the pieces that hold the rubber blades] and just kept the shorter inner arms and put the rivets back in and shortened the section that is riveted between the arms and the piece that fits over the spline

 (http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0599_zpsuu06xi5n.jpg) ($2)

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0600_zpssopc3wxm.jpg) ($2)

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0602_zpsjdgv09uh.jpg) ($2)


(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0603_zpsengtqm7d.jpg) ($2)

Sorry ,wrong button here is the rest of them

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0610_zpsvmfgpovs.jpg) ($2)

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0611_zpsixozutbt.jpg) ($2)

That's the motor .Now the switch is trick because the wiper motor runs fast enough but it is only single speed . I took an air con fan control switch [four position ] ,first position is off ,the second is through a resistor to slow it ,third is standard fast, the last position is through a rheostat so I can vary the speed from stop to full . Hope that helps .Cheers Haydn

Yeah, sorry frankie to hijack this but I find these setups interesting to talk about. Pitch is something I hadn't thought of much. Yeah I just got them Haydn so that's just how they are. I sort of don't wanna rush it and yeah I gotta check that the cable drive matches the wheels. I'm hoping it does on the motor with the long cable so I can use your idea. You know that stuff on the roller door glides, I reckon that stuff might be good. It's a putty the wheels can't be sealed so grease stays fresh. I'm gunna see if I can find that article about mods to this system to improve durability. Dust in the grease might be an issue here so I thought of encasing the wheel assemblies and silastic it to make a dust proof casing. The bloke in the article says to try match wheels even if they are old. Do you think if I just got general auto soft rubber to seal under. What did they do back in the day.

This might sound crazy but my mate who works for a auto paint co. got me plenty of black polyurethane and told me to use it to make my custom quarter glass seals so I wrapped the quarter glasses in glad wrap and sprayed it with lube then filled around them with polyurethane then trimmed them with a dremil .So my idea would be to do the same ,wrap each drive in cling wrap then totally cover them with polyurethane . Haydn

Hey Haydn I,posted some pics of my new air con heater unit in my air con thread have you checked it out yet and if so what do you think cheers Frankie.

Yeah someone did same with vasoline, I think my father in law.