FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hey people I am having issues trying to work,out what fits into a standard dash for heating and air conditioning, I have a unit from a vs commodore and it's way to big....it was free haha.....but I'm can't seem to find out what actually fits and works.
Any help would be great thanks frankie.

Have a look at vintage air, there is also another company that does small air conditioners that I had been told about but can not remember their name.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers
JB

My advice is get the electric vintage air not the vacuum model.


Regards

Wayne b

Thanks guys I will check them out.

X2
It's one of those things that I have found that a cheaper more economical version is not available (that I could find from a donor car).
I did not go as far as to look at a unit from a Barina/Astra etc though

Is any of this of use to you ? I collected it for my Vauxhall hot rod project but I haven't enough room under the hood.

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/hsv-001/SAM_0210_zps7096e7a5.jpg) ($2)
I'm not sure where you are but I'm in S.E. Qld and there is a guy in one of the clubs of which I am a member who does air . Cheers Haydn

I think with that ive been researching for yonks and unless u want a big crap looking one from the 70's then I agree with the others. If you were gunna use donor stuff it might need to be out of a small car perhaps but id be worried about spares later. While on the subject old mount Isa boy, is there parts on these kits that would have to go in early to save headaches cos o was thinking of putting the plumbing in but getting the rest fitted after rego. Just one thing, the vf Commodore has gone to pissy little vent cos limited room for screen and they are noisy and don't work well so I'm going to try incorporate a few extra outlets if they are pissy. Did anyone do that

I would test fit the firewall hose bracket. I used a firewall alloy kit. I would also sort out the radiator and condenser unit before everything gets too pretty. The vents should be done early. I have a four outlet unit so needed to cut holes in the dash. Do it early!!! The hoses to the outlets also need to be thought about with the wiper arms.

Where are the controls going to go? Sort out early.

Regards

Wayne b

Yeah I am that's why I'm planning the dash layout now. If you can take some pics pls of where your outlets are and any pics from under the dash that are tight, or direct us to the page on the build page, I will start reading them in the next few weeks while I'm not doing much. Lots to think about at this stage. Makes the taxi look like a piece of piss really.

Yeah I agree with Deano and also the advice to do it early, omg if this was an fj I would have no issues lol, it's my first fe but thanks guys the info is priceless.

Cheers Frankiej

I am putting a vintage style air con that will be concealed it is fitting up where the glove box ( I won't be having a glove box) is with under dash vents I have a separate heater that is fitting up behind the speaker grill I think its out of a bongo van or some small jap thing. Would post some pictures but I don't know how.

Does anyone know what the smallest air con heater unit is from a factory car that might work besides an vintage air unit, I am prepared to modify as much as I have to cheers Frankie

hmmm this ol chestnut. Best start collecting units from small cars mate

I'm using the smiths one out of the fe for the fc. It's the round type but that different to what your talking about. Why not continue with your pommy kit http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Cooling_heating/Heating/Heater_matrix/C-ARA3000.aspx?070102&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/Heater.aspx
If you wanted to be a real pioneer, you could buy one of those compact inverter reverse cycle heating/cooling units used in boats. But the inverter might be too expensive and although they keep getting smaller like the Mermaid ones, still a bit too big for a sedan but would work ok for a van.

Hi Frankiej
I am also trying to figure this problem out but unfortunately my sedan is (never) finished.
I have purchased a new VS compressor (it was relatively cheap) and the rest of the engine bay system (hoses etc), because I dont want to cut holes in my dash I am going to use an underdash unit (70's 80's style) but my main issue is trying to figure out where to mount the compressor without having it sit too high and ugly.
JB has said that he moved the coil pack and mounted it in that position and I thinkl I will also try to go there. After looking at almost all positions in the engine bay I think this may be the only place to go.
There is another company in the states called Old Air Products and apparently they have an agent in QLD.
Regards
Neil H

Hey Neil where are you mounting the compressor? V6conversions sell a bracket to mount VS on drivers side (expensive though but it's done) may help in the room dept.

I went looking for other units too and got to a point where trying to save money wasn't the point anymore. The place I bought my vintage air from actually sent me an empty dummy unit to see if it would fit. This may be an option for you guys to try rather than stuff around searching. In my opinion it was worth the coin to get a new unit. In 40deg heat on vinyl I'll be needing a testicle warmer to counteract it!!!!

Hey guys thanks for the replys and I can see it being an issue, I recently looked at an fj with what looked like a vs Calais centre console and it was running air con but with no mods to the dash, my thoughts are to cut my dash and move it and fit the vents from the vs as well into the top and try to create to extra room to fit something up under there, my wiper isn't there now so it has given me some extra space to play with, I have used the wiper motor and cables from a Morris.

I just had another thought maybe I should just use the warmeride heater I already have and go for an under dash air con, what are the thoughts on this and will it be ok to use with the v6.

Stop thinking your head might explode 😬

Hi Frankiej
Your last post is what I was talking about with my sedan I am going to use an underdash unit (not behind the dash) the issue is where to mount the compressor.

NES was saying that V6 Conversions make a bracket for the drivers side but I would like to keep the messy hoses down as much as possible and my underdash unit will be mounted under the glove box so I want to bring the hoses through that side.

I use an electric underdash (yes hidden under the dash) demister as I didn't want to keep drilling holes through my fire wall at the time to run water hoses (now look what I am going to do ha ha)

The width of the engine with the compressor mounted in is original position on the V6 does not fit between the chassis rails on our FC's you have to grind off a bit on the drivers side for the oil filter as it is.

I am interested in which way you go Frankie as I say I'm tyring to figure it out myself at the moment.
Regards
Neil H

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/sgomachen/FC%20HOLDEN-V6/AcComp003.jpg) ($2)

You don't have to use the commodore compressor, there are smaller ones that will clear.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/sgomachen/FC%20HOLDEN-V6/Udash.jpg) ($2)

Has anyone done air con on a grey? I know Kevin Woollard has. Does anyone know how to fit a second pulley
and a compressor type and bracket that will fit?
Cheers,
Graham

Hey Firekraka I just got onto a hq under dash unit and I am interested to know if they are able to run the new gas through them, would anyone know as I'm unsure.

r426a (rs-24) is the one that was used to replace r12, but there are newer ones and I don't think they know for sure if r426a is also bad. Read the spec sheet. It can harm you in large doses but ac systems don't use much. The problem is the same with paint "systems" with systems meaning multi million $$$ investment. I had been wanting to brush up my skills in this area and I would look into this Frankie, as I'm not sure if using the adopted replacement above is such a good idea if you aren't going to be isolating the components out of the passenger dept. But I don't know who to believe and I have not had much to do with these newer HC (basically gas fuel mixes). A bloke named Dean at the video shop who worked at super cheap has been talking to me about retrofit gas options lately. He has been testing different gases. Weird how he just spoke to me the other day and I was bored shitless wondering why he was so excited. Have a look at this. http://www.airchill.net.au/auto-motive-air-conditioning-gases.html Before you get excited about using propane/hydrocarbons, which is what seems to be the new rage for fridges in some countries, I still think I would prefer to use r426a despite it getting negative press. Whatever you use though, ensure that you read data sheets on operating pressures and evacuating old systems. Be careful of old systems running gases that you cannot verify too and quiz your technician about what pressures you will run with the gas you choose so that the system is safe when retrofitting. But I'm no expert in this cos even the experts don't agree. The thing I do like about HC gas, is it's scented.....apparently.

Hi sgo
Thanks for the photo of your compressor mount up I would be interested in a couple more photos if possible and a little more info on your compressor.
Did you make the mount for the compressor? What is it out of? Did you use the standard Commodore serpentine belt?
Thought I'd get all the questions out there at once mate  ;D ;D

Frankie
For the cost of new units on ebay I wouldn't worry about buying a second hand one and there is the gas issue after all, the VS system that I have uses R134a
The underdash unit I am looking at on ebay is only 395mm x 360mm x 130mm $227 with a bulkhead fitting ($188 without), he can also supply hoses and fittings.
I purchased a second hand unit a while ago (cost $250) when I started thinking of this issue and when I got it back the fans would not work etc etc. For the price and added possible gas issues I am going to go new mate.

Regards
Neil H

Graham , I helped installed the one on Wayne's grey and it is easy enough to replace the water pump backing plate with a larger slightly thicker plate ,slotted and drilled to carry your compressor and relocate your alternator[generator] and brace the bracket back to the intake manifold . Just be careful of the belt alignment .I still have the pattern for the plate in a drawer somewhere .I got bagged a little about the old under dash unit in the photo but it is all hanging under the dash and wont interfere with the glove box or the wiper arms ,it is 460mm long 300mm wide and although it is 135mm deep it would hang less than 100mm below the dash. Obviously its from the 70's and probably can no longer be used but I'm just saying that the new units are not that much more compact and more difficult to install [just my opinion] .  Haydn

Thanks Haydn,
The diagram would be good and any pics you have. What brand of compressor did you use and does the Type/Size of the condenser have to match the size of the under dash unit? Did the air con take much power out of the motor?
Cheers,
Graham

Check Wayne's [Old Mt Isa Boy] build .Vintage Air I think . I didn't like the idea as I have had little to do with Air con and like you was worried about the lack of horses under the hood .Also ,the knobs are on the Yank side near the passengers knee and the ducting is a bit of a nightmare [I used flexible kitchen sink hose from the hardware to adapt to the different size vents].Haydn

Hey Neil h that unit your talking about can you give me the details so I can look at it and maybe even purchase one myself.
Cheers Frankie.

I was thinking of getting a generic thing like this for the fans and internal stuff but originally I was looking into the modern mini Cooper compressor and components. I think I like the idea of a new unit but with some mods here and there. It's a good convo though with quite a few of us needing to sort it. There's a complete vk system on eBay atm. http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/universal-compact-air-conditioning-heater-kit

Hi Frankie give this a try
UNDERDASH TYPE AIR CON EVAPORATOR& BULKHEAD FITTING HOLDEN FORD HOTROD CHRYSLER Item number 321647025989 users name is pusti05

Give it a try mate
Regards
Neil H

JB can you give me an idea of where you relocated the coil pack to, did you just have to extend the wires going to the pack and were the original spark plug leads reuseable.
I have been doing some fiddling with the engine I have in my workshop (on an engine stand) for my EK ute and think if I move the coil pack back to the firewall then the spark plug leads will be ok and I just have to extend coil pack wires.

Comments appreciated guys.
Regards
Neil H

I think I relocated them onto the back of the block, using gear box bolts to mount it. Then just changed the leads around to suit.
PM GlennM to see if he will put up a photo for you.

Cheers
JB

Thanks JB
I will PM Glenn when I get a chance.
May have it sorted I spoke to a company here in Perth who have smaller compressors that are alternator type mounted (swing in/out) not 4 bolt like the commodores will go and have a look to see if I can get it into the space close to where it should be.

I report back after the expedition (cut lunch and a six pack from where I live)  ;D

Regards
Neil H

Hey Neil h I will check it out and let you know and thanks again.

FrankieJ I purchased mine yesterday so it should arrive in a week or so knowing Aussie Post.i will let you know what it is like.
The guy I spoke to yesterday who runs the car air conditioning company asked if I had bought a new under dash unit or a second hand one he said much better to buy a new one maybe because of the gas issue I will ask him when I go to see about the compressor.
Regards
Neil H

Can you pls ask whether it's a matter of certain gases needing to run at certain pressures as the reason or is it just that the seals dry out.

Hey thanks Neil much appreciated

Well went to see the Air Con guy and have received the underdash unit.
Aircon guy was great he said that the underdash units are surprisingly efficient and it will work well; he had said that if the compressor I had purchased was indeed brand new he would swap it for me for a smaller compressor and he was good to his word he swapped it for a alternator type mounted one which is a lot smaller than the standard VS one and as SGO said it will fit down on the passenger side and keep it out of the way.

Would still like to see a photo of your mount SGO (compressor mount that is  ;D)

I am going to make up a mounting bracket and trial fit it to my EK ute engine that I have in my workshop before fitting to the sedan.

Will post photos of compressor and mount when I get it looking right.

Regards
Neil H

pic as requested:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/sgomachen/FC%20HOLDEN-V6/ACmount2_zpsaeaff256.jpg) ($2)
Funny you describe the compressor as an "alternator type", as that is pretty much how it is mounted.
Bottom mounts are part of engine mount bracket.
Top mount is as shown in previous pic.
The belt used is standard A/C commodore belt. Just make sure the pulley on the compressor matches the commodore belt in width etc.
Haven't much info on the compressor as it was bought new and for the smallest size I could get!
Hose connections had to be right-angle mount and modified to clear subframe etc.
You can see this in previous pic.

Thanks for sharing. Did he mention choice of gas or anything

Hi SGO
Mate when I look closer at your picture it looks like your compressor is almost identical to the one I swapped for and thanks for the picture it does make sense and the bracket is almost identical to how I imagined it to be.

I'll identify and post pics of the compressor after I have fitted it up for all to see.

Did you wire your compressor and underdash unit up if so a wiring diagram or you assistance would be a great help SGO.

I dont know why you are so concerned about the gas Dean the label on the side of the compressor tells you what gas it is built to use.

Neil H

The wiring is about as complicated as a normal fan heater ;)
I can send some info I have that may help;
contact me on sgomachen(at)hotmail(dot)com
cheers, George.

(http://i.imgur.com/blOlVOc.jpg?1)

I have taken my lead from SGO (thanks mate) it appears that our compressors are almost identical.

I have made my brackets but for some reason when I try to upload from imgur I can only get one photo a day may have something to do with my companies security on our computers so you have to wait until tomorrow ha ha.

Standard Commodore A/C serpentine belt fits (already mounted and tried on my EK's engine in the workshop) now to take it home and see if I can mount it on the sedan.

Regards
Neil H

(http://i.imgur.com/G0LTC34.jpg)

Well gentlemen (and any ladies reading this) I have installed the compressor, the angle of the photo makes it look as if it is not aligned however I am pretty confident that I have it very very close.

I have not been able to put the belt on yet as the lower radiator hose is touching the pulley so I will replace the hose and get it out of the way.

I had to redrill the mounting holes in my lower bracket and get the compressor closer to the block; for some reason it was fouling not sure as it was very hard to see without dismantling half of my engine bay.

I would recommend not doing this with the engine in the car  ::) after a lot of swearing scun knuckles and some more swearing  ;D it did go in but I wish I had of started this a lot earlier in the build.

Now to fit the condensor and then the underdash unit, oh my god, my advise do it early or don't do it at all  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 

(http://i.imgur.com/UGfnv4R.jpg)

These are the brackets that I made to mount the A/C Compressor before I made the attempt to fit it and when I actually got it mounted the only change I had to make was to redrill the 2 holes in the lower bracket (the forked one) to get the bottom of the compressor closer to the block.

The extra piece that I added to the lower forked bracket was to give enough space so that the bolt that bolts the bracket to the engine mount (and is one of the engine mount bolts) can still be tightened without it interferring with the bracket and you can still get a socket on the head of the bolt.

Regards
Neil H

Here is some pics of my new air con and heater unit that arrived today.....happy somewhat.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/b6728f373498e2a7de700f420331c1eb.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/0ffd8b4b4add82758df6035e95dc37b3.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/f8d61cc46f742ca675a1ce6501a4f11a.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/50b7a134f7bc5de4fac451d63d34686e.jpg)

So is that the same as Wayne's or nes's. What's the brand again? If your making up any custom bits or you do change the firewall, can ya pls put them in your computer for me for later. I'm not sure why ppl don't seem to be getting the concept or reason for straightening the firewall. Is there anyone that has a machine to rib steel to make it look good or what's your thoughts on it. I thought it could be a bolt on somehow or clipped on with a seal like van covers. Might be a good option since your getting rid of the air cowl. I actually though (or overthought this perhaps) that a cool old school looking cold air intake could be put in the original cowls place or a gauge cluster. Would be something different anyway!

Yes Deano the cowl has gone and my whole plenum has changed and flattening of the firewall I think has merit, and it's a swaging tool to make the line your talking about which are mainly used to stop vibration and to look good as well lol.

That's it. I hear fc hoon talk about it all the time. Do you have one? I'll ask the guys tomoz if I get that far if they have a good one or press etc.

So is your plan to shift the firewall forward only where the air con is going and face the air outlets in which direction . Remove the glove box and then come out there . Just finding it very interesting ,maybe some parcel pockets on the front door trims like my panel van [to replace the glove box] .Cheers Haydn

Hey there Haydn, did you see the unit I purchased it has four outlets I want to run the two middle ones to the screen vents and the outer two I am putting custom outlets on the face of the dash on the outside of both sides if that makes sense, so the grille in the dash will be just for looks and the unit will fit in behind it if I move the firewall out, and Deano I don't have a swager but I do plane on making it look like it was always there.
Don't know if I cleared much up there because the runs have set in on thirsty Thursday lol.
Frankie.

Check out the taxi page. We found the diamonds!

Yeah Deano how cool are they

Yeah mate got it ,bit like Waynes only in the centre . You will really need a cable drive wiper set up ,over to the left of the glove box . Little advice , like I said on the other [firewall topic ] would be a good idea to get the wipers set up as soon as you get the space you need ,then hot wire them and check before anything goes in ,then forget them
 .Otherwise the space under the dash cramps up real quick as you start ducting the vents and wiring and so on. Cheers Haydn

Yeah Haydn good advise and I used to do the same in the 90's on the fj's it works well and something you don't have to worry about later.