FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

I am starting a new project on an fe sedan and want to fit a v6 and vs commodore floor pan, so I guess this is the start of my thread.

I may be able to help with some advise here . Front or back rack will determine the shape of the sump and pick-up .Must say I am not a fan of the commodore floor pan because they mount low on the sills and old Holden floors are flush with the top of the sills things like the hump and tunnel seem to be far too high especially at the front .Commodore also seem to slightly narrow .I'm not the only person to have welded commodore floors in old holdens so we will wait and see what others think .I would buy floor pan rust sections and a sheet of steel and try and replace the original as much as possible. That's just me . Cheers Haydn 

Jason did this. Check out build 366 days

Are you going to go for a vn motor with 5 speed or auto and later motor?

I'd suggest the VS engine if he is using the floor from a VS.

My suggestion - Find a VS that has what you want with what extras you want (cruise etc), be careful as some come with IRS and some with live axle diff.
A series III V6 ute will have most of what you need (unless you want power window for the rear doors). Series III V8 comes ready to take a 355 crank too! :o :o

Either way let me know if you run with a VS as I can reprogram the memcal to performance shift (upgraded fuel specs and shift pattern) and remove the security from them so you won't have to buy the bloody expensive harness from Conversions place ::)

AKS AS MANY QUESTIONS AS YOU WANT!

Wow this is Awsome and very informative already, my first issue is how do impost photos on here lol, and then the funds need to come so I can get the gear I need, I have my own panel shop which is a start but my handbrake won't take ownership until she can see it close to finished grrrrrrrr. Anyway any help on the photos and thanks in advance cheers frankiej.

Ok I'm coming round, I'll upload photos, you finish my car ;D

Read the post on Tapatalk for the mobile application http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=22184.0

Or use a host http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=7642.0

I prefer tapatalk as its easy to take a pic on phone and upload straight away

Or you can SMS to me or email to me and I'll upload the first few to get you started....


ANYHOO, the others want the intentions for the build....

Hey Nes your welcome to come and visit and thanks for the advise on uploading pics I will see how I go, you can check out my work on Frankie's restorations on the other big media site.....cheers frankiej.

Yes I agree with tapatalk.

Sorry I was supposed to say if you don't go with the vs graft, would you consider the vn. Personally I think if your going to go to all the trouble of a v6, you may as well go for what you want, like a modern straight 6 or v8. But with mine I want to do more of an old skool build now and have deviated from my original retro tech idea. I suppose it depends on what you wanna use the car for.

Hi FrankieJ
I did the V6 thing with my sedan and I grafted the Commodore floor hump into the FC floor in hindsight I would have preferred to graft the whole floor as you pick up all of the strenthening points etc NES is right again (I seem to be saying that a lot lately  ;D) have a look at the 365 days thread admittedly it is a ute floor but it shows you how it is done and the advantages.

I used the VN VP series 2 motor and auto box as I prefer the look of the engine than the ugly plastic top cover a plenum of the later engine but that was just my preference, no offence to the VS/Ecotec boys.

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Regards
Neil H

Wow some fantastic info there guys, I finally have tapatalk and I will,put some pics up of my new project.

Here goes my attempt at putting up pics I hope you guys like what I am starting with, in the past I realised it was better to pay a bit more for a better body, this is my $2,000 investment.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/699f637f56ac085e35de37d56ef7fa2a.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/20fe8e7470517d02338902b02c63f97f.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/0045555f2865e92a40710c700bf7d98e.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/68f84445d7e1d59e974495e4054ff405.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/d9f4cfab631e7b83c2fe3af165657e89.jpg)

really nice dress rims that i would gladly take off your hands :D.

whats going on in the dash what the hell are the black things look like really old switches for presumably heater or some other item?

good job posting pics too.


Nice

Hey fcrb26 thanks mate and the switches I'm not sure about, the guy I bought it of tells me it might be an x police car because it has been resprayed SA police blue and the switches could be for lights and sirens, so not real sure at all.

Hi frankiej,
Good job on getting pictures up. Can you post a picture of the firewall tag to see if it is an Adelaide built car.
The colour that is left behind the dash frame looks like Royal Marine and the trim on the seats would be consistent with that.
My father in law was a SA policeman at the time that these were in service and I can confirm with him if they had the pale blue at that time or not.

Cheers Stewy   8)

Sure stewy I will get a pic , and I'm pretty sure your right but the car has had a respray at some stage in the police blue and I'm intrigued as to why. Cheers frankiej

Looks like $2000 investment was ok. The guards and doors look good. How are the floors and sills?
It should be easy enough to discover if the car was used by the police or other department. There should be quite a few "extra" holes in the firewall, skirts and under dash panel where the radio and other things were mounted. It is also likely there would be some filled holes in the roof where the sign went. Most police cars were standard or business sedans rather than specials but this does not necessarily always hold true as FE's and FC's were in high demand so sometimes you just had to take what you could get. There are period photos of FE special sedans as police cars.
It looks like it had a guage suspended below the dash as well. The screw and the hole look like just the right distance apart for one of those old seventies guage panels.
Perhaps it was a hottie from the seventies and the switches may have been driving lights or the like.
Ken

Hey ken your info is fantastic and I still,need to post a pic of the id tag, but I will,look closer at all the points you made and let you know cheers frankiej.

Funny you say that Ken cos most taxi's weren't specials but mine is. Sometimes that's part of the fun. I have a shortened 80's hilux Bush basher with a vn v6 and 5 speed with limited slip diff. It goes like hell. Let me know if u want some pics of the engine or anything. I'm pretty sure guys with fb/ek models have used the Toyota diff but I could be wrong. I think they run v6 early motors in those ex sprintcars. I have a straight through exhaust on mine but I still don't like the sound. That made me change my mind. How lame hey. Very torquey motor though.

dirt buggy, 3.8L v6 s1 vn motor, 5 speed: http://youtu.be/Tj6oVP_CJiE

It's black now with some refinements. Its bright so if out shooting ya don't get shot at but I don't use it for that I plough shit, tow shit around  the paddocks and have found that it's more fun without rear brakes connected. I can delete these posts later if this is your proper build page.

Nup he's stuck with it now!!

❔

So tapatalk u can't delete? I think moderators can? Is that what u mean.

Haha all funny stuff and keep the comments coming.

Your not Frankie j Holden are you lol.

Nah haha just my mates call me that because of how much I have done over the years with fj holdens

Ok all you gurus out there and I know your out there here are mi fe Id tags, any info would be Awsome cheers in advance frankiej.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/07/b400a0bf1e7721fc7b0d167b98e71499.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/07/94a609b6d008c36ba3343c98b09f13e0.jpg)

You can go to the fe Holden club website and put your numbers in there.

http://www.fefcholden.org.au/techinfo/index.html

Using the decoder I get:

Assembled 1958, the 45,224th FE (in any body style) assembled in Melbourne Victoria.

Exterior trim code 284 is unknown

Interior trim code 717 is Persian Turquoise and Parchment Ivory.

Paint 253-7472  is Royal Marine in Duco Lacquer

Paint 256-7698 is Castle Grey in Duco Lacquer

Cheers Stewy   8)  Adelaide would never have used a Melbourne assembled FE as a Police Car.

Wow thanks stewy that cleared that up cheers Frankie

How's it going there Frankie j? When you have done cars in the past and finished the underbody, what do most customers want, Holden chassis black, the colour of the car or some other coating. Is there anything you prefer?

Just a bit more info for you, the cars paint is royal marine over castle grey. This means the main body colour is royal marine and the insert is castle grey. As Stewy has posted, there is no code listed for the two tone in this configuration, there is a code 248 which is the opposite of your car castle grey over royal marine.
Jim

I think you are right Jim. Probably a Friday afternoon stamping of ID plate. 248 would be the correct number for this car being an FE the two tone was only the roof and the body. This car would be Castle Grey roof over Royal Marine body. You can still see the royal marine on the dash fascia which is the main car colour.

Cheers Stewy   8)

249 is the reverse. Royal Marine over Castle Grey  :)

Wow you guys are amazing with your knowledge, and Deano it really comes down to a customer preference, but for me I like them to be quiet so I go for sound deadened on the underside, but my fj limo was fully detailed and painted body colour for show.

So hey guys I have a few questions, I had a little go at the fe on the weekend just a bit of a strip down on the front, when I got the car the steering wasn't connected, so I thought I should put it back together for me to be able to move the car around with ease but I ran into some issues, the pics I will put up might explain it I can't work out how to get the knuckle back into the drag link, also some pics of some stuff I have never seen before like the two door switches on both front A-Pillars and the switch in the boot and also the attachment on the front of the subframe I have NFI of what it is, also what are the water squirters like on the original wipers.
Cheers Frankiej.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/fd6653131c623e8b1273dd5c97c5f1c4.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/6f07094846d228cd392712c0ab54fd01.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/fef55160f29aa08d7f2b50620e711877.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/a85dace151beef978d3e3c408abb93fa.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/ea31809ba7ffe5eee1136d08b68f6d34.jpg)

I believe the front subframe bracket would be for the horn.
I like the bakelite light switch. I have one for the ignition switch in my Fargo. Could it have been used for a light in the boot?
You can buy aftermarket washer nozzles. 55 Chev ones fit.

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a628/Crumpsnr/Fargodash_zps1322858a.jpg)

Not sure about the switches but the bracket looks to be for the horn/s and the nozzle on the wiper is the washer jet. There should be hoses under the dash that would have gone to the washer bottle/ jar. It looks like the end screw cap is missing off the drag link and most likely the spring and the retainers that hold the idler arm in position.
Jim

I think the brains trust is onto it with those questions you have .The second pillar switch, will be someone has set up to separate both front doors from turning on the interior light .This would explain why the switches under the dash . I mean if mum wants to get out and not wake the baby .The second switch could be to turn off the boot light when not required ,like when you leave your boot open during the day , I pull the bulb on my Mazda so I don't flatten the battery .Cheers Haydn

If you can't be stuffed rooting around for now, I'm more than happy to lend you this one (I have 2 cars, this is a spare) and then when u have time you can use it to see how to put the other one together.  (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/00aeac98ecbe9a4c60f34b9e9f652576.jpg)

I have the whole new replacement kit here somewhere too. You can see my fc build page under "black and white taxi" and my modified fe custom is here http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=18667.0

Some more pics for you. (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/32ac0c41ba42e7af18a119395bd8df85.jpg[/[IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/b1d321a92c73a5bf69569c6c7a90b392.jpg)IMG]

Tapatalk is not playing ball. Let me know if a certain pic will help.

Hey Deano that would be fantastic to get a lend of that, but down the track I will be fitting an hr frontend but for now I just need to be able to move the car around and onto trailers, I was told today that a guy in town here is wrecking an fc that's really only for wrecking so I might try and catch up with him, and all the gurus on this site thanks for the answers to my questions.
I also sandblasted the front guards, grille cowl and some other small bits today and put them into etch primer, the front guards are both going to need lowers and front peaks but I expected that.

Yeah my guards need a lot of work. Peaks, top qtr,  lower u name it. On fe did all floor. Inner and outer sills, crossmember, ek auto hump and the front subframe has been repaired and strengthened. Have the crs chassis kit here too.

Let me know when someone is coming to Horsham and I'll run that steering to them as I live out of town. If you want any templates for the crs kit to copy or u wanna bend up your own crossmembers if you don't have any, u can borrow mine as templates if ya want.

That's Awsome Deano and I will take you up on that offer for when I'm ready to do a copy, I will have to drop by and see you one day, are you anywhere near lee Paterson the spray painter cheers.

I'm coming in tomoz for some man shopping so I can drop it off wherever you would like. Just pm me in messages section where you would like me to take it to and I'll drop it off for you. Is he at Urquhart Street? My mum lives in Pynsent street. I'll take it there tomoz and I'll give you her address so that you can pick it up when u like if that's easier. Doing my 2 cars at once, I have a fair few double up parts as one will be completely taxi original down to the paint and the other one more of a hottie.

I personally agree with Neil ,I have a series 1 and a series 2 both in 1948 Vauxhalls  and with a bit of elbow grease and some polish and a set of alloy rocker covers they look ok . I find the large plenum chamber on the ecotec a little too ugly .Also the tin sumps are a little easier for us back yardies to modify . The question I would like to ask the brains trust is this .There is no ruling on hotrods regarding the originality of the exhausts .What I mean is that I have adapted sports systems for both V6's , the series 1 was a sports system for commodore and the second was off a Nissan [zoom zoom I need a bigger system and turbo] that I scored off ebay and made fit . Both have sports cats and mufflers and both are 2.75" plus, would these be suitable on FE-FC in all states . Still they don't sound as good as the sports system on my red motor .Haydn

I like the sound of an old straight 6. Personally never heard a V6 sound anywhere near as good as a V8 with the same exhaust.... But that's my two cents.

My sports system on the buggy is straight through. At least Frankie j can come and hear it at full noise in my paddock lol. With the hilux low ratio diff, it's a hoot. But I'm not a fan of the sound so if I had one in a classic, I would try make it quiet. I'm not sure what Frankie wants to end up using his car for. I'm hoping by the end of it that Frankie chooses a 1uz , carbed borrowing an intake from New Zealand speedway with 6 speed auto. They are big though. Haydn, maybe you could start a discussion on it. I'd be interested to hear from everyone and I'm sure Frankie would too. If I were using a v6 though, I'd go for a ve sv6 engine. Really good motor but is much revier. Frankie and Haydn, have you guys had much to do with the T5 trans?

Deano I haven't had much to do at all with the T5, when I was doing most modifications back in the 80's and 90's most people went for a red motor or chev, we didn't have the options we have today, I like the idea of an ecotec from a vs, they are proven and reliable. I also done a lot of work with Rod Hadfield whith engineering stuff, and he would often ask me how I did things like a rear mounted rack back in 1997 as he was only doing front mounted and a two speed wiper for half the price of his, but I never let him know because he would nt tell me his secrets either, a great guy and funny as well.

Back at rods we put a few  T5's in FC-FE's .I believe that the series1 was crank specific [manual and auto are different]. Series2 onward are interchangeable . But I am not 100% sure as we didn't do that many compared to the auto's . On the engine sound thing ,yes the exhaust note is a little disappointing whatever sports system you use but if you throw away your power steering pump and air con. and tensioners then make your own alternator bracket to replace the serpentine belt with a 6pk1155 you will actually hear the engine .Cheers Haydn 

😃

Cool

You can copy this stuff. I dropped it off at mums in town. Can't give you the v6 conversions gearbox mount just yet but this will keep you busy for now. If you know any bird lovers, you can take the nesting boxes too (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/30/ddf22798133a73bdfc1567a6b8c0a765.jpg) there might be some items that we can help each other with. What are your plans for a fuel tank? I have a donut and normal gas thank here, but I think I will go for a tank that is big enough just to get a twin exhaust past. My cousin at My gambier is an awesome aluminium welder. When I cut all the pieces for the tank out I will template the pieces and keep them for if I ever get my Ute or van in future. So when you get to that part you can have a look, but you have probably done all this before.

Hey Deano that's Awsome stuff and I can't thank you enough, I was hoping to use a VS fuel tank as that seems to be what people are using but until I purchase a vs I won't know for sure if I will use it, I also want to run a twin exhaust but not sure how the v6 will sound with that, has anyone here done it and does it sound ok ?. Anyway thanks again Deano I will measure it all up and put it onto AutoCad and keep it on file for future or if anyone else wants the dimensions.
Cheers Frankie

My buggy is v6 twin straight through exhaust. This is it years ago. It's black now. It's a bit hard to get proper tone on here but I think a grey or red Holden motor sounds better.
dirt buggy, 3.8L v6 s1 vn motor, 5 speed: http://youtu.be/Tj6oVP_CJiE

To get a better sound, you really need to bridge the twin system and copy the VE sv6 setup. But they only sound reasonable at 4500 to 6000 revs, but the ecotec doesn't rev very well. I think the commodores all got heavier so u don't feel the advancement of each engine. We had ourselves or I've driven every model of both Ford and Holden since the vs, either work cars or family cars and the best value for money and interior car is the current vf. But I liked the ve sv6 we had but the ride is harsh on our shit roads. One of the better ones was the fg falcon. Very smooth engine and nice trans. If I didn't find the 1967 camaro spec 327 with four barrel, I reckon id do a Toyota 1uz 4 ltr v8 using a caslemaine kit. I would buy a carb intake setup from New Zealand where they use them for speedway. Bulletproof bottom end that you would never need to touch. There's a few videos of vans and an ek with one if you search. They are a wide motor though. I'm thinking of raising the deck height of my sbc by 0.225 inches and doing an LS/sbc hybrid. But ditching all the factory injection and going to a simple throttle body type setup that's fully adjustable.

Hey Frankie the VS had the last of the steel fuel tanks and so can mod them.

I researched a heap of exhaust systems when I was to put in a V6 including listening to them on cars and ALL of them sounded like absolute rubbish. Never heard one I liked and they all sounded like a P plater.

Just my 3cents.

Hey Deano I'm on the fence with that sound and I like the idea of the steel,fuel tank.
Hey NES do they need to be modified or are they a good fit cheers.

I agree with NES on the sound. I bought the buggy with running gear in mind but I just can't do it. Even the diff has the right track. Now I use it as my block tractor. It goes like a cut snake.

Depends if you want a tank fill cap on the side of the car? I blocked mine off and stuck a new neck coming through the boot to the original position. Tank itself is unmodified but has about 50mm gap either side to the leaves.

Hey Frankiej;
I used the VP fuel tank and like NES I modified it to run the filler out the back to the original position, these steel tanks are great as you get the standard in tank pump and all of the line fittings you need and you dont need to run a restricted filler neck anymore.

Have a look at JB's build 365 Days in the first couple of pages he shows you the support frame he made to go around the tank I did a similiar thing however I made my frame thicker so that the tank sat below the original boot floor line and I then made a new boot floor so that when you look into the boot it looks standard, my tank support straps bolt to that frame. The tank does not sit below the bottom of the diff.

As for exhaust My sedan sounds great but you get what you pay for, I have V6 Conversion manifolds and from there it is a custom built single 2 1/2" system cat convertor and single muffler cost me a grand but I am really happy. My cat convertor is not a Hi Flow it is standard spec, my engineer told me if I went Hi Flow I would have to have an emission test and that was another $400 but as I said it still runs and (I think) sounds great.

Regards
Neil H

Hey guys good info there and lots to think about for my build
Thanks again Frankie

Well it's been a while since I put something up here but I have been busy collecting parts and sandblasting lots of the smaller items, I also got my first donor car a VS Commodore just a shell but the price was the best it was free.
Anyway I will put up some pics of the progress to date and see what everyone thinks, the floor is just sitting on the trailer at the minute until I lift the car of.
Cheers Frankie.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/3bb2a4a84fcb40136edc9de334eff3dd.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/dcfbb8ff88a8ccb57e01578eec4536ff.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/a106108a992abb10613711fee224455b.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/74da9121263bc387a18241abc8d3751a.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/3190929354a3cdc473487743e0c3e062.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/913e4e4a136bfa06eefa094e6e160bc3.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/8cb43fc544f6fae785ff839247ab1ae9.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/67f11dbafecd3f8eb6971bdc4f4d37cf.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/26/0e171329470b8d094dbe40f28f530163.jpg)

Can u pls take a pic for ne of the boot from the top if it's all still in tact? Thanks.

I removed the boot hinges and there mounts so that I can play around with them on my fe, also the car has been smashed in the right rear corner creasing the whole boot floor.

I got hold of a vs tank. So I gotta decide which way I'm gunna go. I'm gunna get some lc torry flutes for my fe guards.

Yeah Deano,i want a vs tank as well, and I have done plenty of flutes in guards over the years haha.

Do you need a tank? U would need the high pressure unit in tank too I need the low pressure vn one. I got flutes too. While enquiring in Adelaide today I found a tank with sender for $125. That might give you an idea of what they are worth but some quoted $220. Both at wreckers.
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/28/9f3e0b56b494772f122d467dba14397f.jpg)

Hey Deano im hoping when I buy my donor car a vs it will have the right tank in it, and are those flutes genuine.
Cheers Frankie.

I'm not sure, they are very thick and better than current repro's but I think they might be non genuine old stock. They are rough cut so could be. Is there a way of telling as ive not dealt with them much.

If they have been cut out of guards then it would be an educated guess that they are genuine, the new ones use .9mm material and have a recessed edge around them for ease of figment, so to me I would say they are the real deal, but why would you do that unless the car was a right of.
Cheers Frankie.

The bloke was a Holden nut lol. Hey I found a pic in a magazine of the vintage air in a Chevy. Not sure if it's any use to you but here's some pics. (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/29/2f21d525613b1fa88fc0e0cf001e6fac.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/29/ce6c01791655b832e6a73c966c8b921e.jpg)

Wow Awsome I still don't know what air con I'm using

We are at a fairly similar planning stage for some of this. There's a vs in pimpinio for sale for 300 bucks. The same bloke has some vn stuff. If you are interested I can pm you his number. Apparently some of the old vans are good to use cos they have compact dashes. It's all fun and games.

Yeah that would be cool thanks Deano, I also done some work today on the old girl I took advantage of the mrs being passed out most of the day due to a huge New Year's Eve lol, I removed the fuel tank that is in Awsome condition, I also unpicked a near perfect spare wheel well and cut the vent from the plenum that is rust free.

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/a43a586c632c50851e8a14ef98e4365b.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/d81ee12e8d58d127d5d5f3a216732142.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/f302dfc0ee005fc95149e535d021f8f1.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/b5aa02740f5008fc3df2e08458a7c043.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/d82a51fecbdea437023559e5469af1ba.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/e664277a954616c562c0914db99e7622.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/f3a3acfef527c96dce9057204da3d428.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/526efcb874782a89235f52246bc693cb.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/c2601a27766d6741bca5e39d9a4b1c8c.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/3567321cd646c34679a747a604204e6f.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/7f226b6fd27c5b1df6809f9411dedd14.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/f95858518106ce5c4effa4d6da374f6e.jpg)
A few pics to,show the progress today and getting closer to sandblasting the body.

That's great. U might need to load the Mrs up if u get behind 😄

A start is a start. Well done hopefully the weather won't stop you getting it to a blaster.

Regards

Wayne b

Haha Deano depends what you meen by that hmmmmmm.

FrankieJ what V6 and running gear are you going to use I know the later engines have more kilowatts but I tend to prefer look.
If you are going to use an Ecotec or later try to make sure you get it back and low, a lot of the ones I have seen seem to sit high in the bay.
Hope don't offend just my opinion.
Regards
Neil H

Hey Firekraka I will be using a VS ecotec, and I like what you say about getting it back and low, but a few questions I have regarding that.
Does the hr front end need modifying, does the sump need modifying, does the rear mounted rack fit ok with them back and low, is the firewall ok as it is or do I need to recess that as well.
Just a few things I am unsure about and cheers Frankie.

You need mounts to suit placement of engine.
Throw away sump and modify a VN steel sump to suit rack and crossmember.
No need for firewall mod if you don't want to.
Rear mount rack is a bitch for unis. Get an off shelf kit from retro racks or V6 conversions. They also supply air con compressor mounts for that engine on drivers side.

I may have a steel sump here Franky. I'm in Dimboola. I did cut the lower bit out though.

Neil

If you get it back far enough you can use the shrouded thermo fans which give great cooling for the V6.
Have a look at Glenn's van in the completed members car for the V6 conversion I did in Cairns. Never had heating issues at all.
I used the same thermofan set up in my ute as well.

Cheers
JB

Hi FrankieJ
Mate I agree with all the above but with my slight on it.
My answers - no need to modify firewall - sump has to go I use the V6 conversions sump saves time and dicking around - I remake the HR crossmember mounts and reweld them when I have the engine in the right position I prefer to do this than some of the dodgy looking box section stuff that are being supplied - NES is right about the rear rack I have the V6 conversion manual rack and it works great - your HR crossmember will need the outrigger replaced as the HR one is too long.
Hope this helps feel free to ask more questions mate as there are plenty of these have been done and everybody has probably come across different little issues that they have solved.
Regards
Neil H

Frankie, Pete (FCRB26) makes new repo HR mounts and v6 conversion plates that will do the job. Cut the old mounts off the front end and reposition the new ones too suit.
Jim

Hey fc wrangler thanks for that I will,contact him cheers.

So just a question for those who have done a v6 and chev v8 with the hr front, I take it the crossmember doesn't need scalloping as much with the v6 conversion if at all? I have scalloped type but that's to make it as low as possible with the sbc but with the rear mounted rack, what's the lowest you can go and what tricks are there to get the rack as low as possible without affecting the geometry of the steering. Isn't there a rule of certain component lining up as in the parallel plane?

Yes good question Deano you said it exactly how I was thinking, in the 90's I designed and made my own rack out of a vb comodore and rear mounted it onto a hr frontend, and I am told that is still in the car working a treat the car is a stretched fj holden with small block chev and scalloped frontend, the only issues I really had was the starter motor fouled with the knuckle on the steering column, so I made a block out of aluminium and lowered the starter motor but also moved it around away from the rack, so I'm not sure if that applies to a v6 at all, setting up the rack was simple really I ran a string line from the centre of the nine inch diff to the lower control arms at the moving part at the front, then I made the adjustments to the inside of the rack by cutting down the shaft and re cut the tapered thread then I just used standard steering rods and hq stubs. It worked then and still works today and wonder if that's how they still do them now.

Thank god I typed this in the morning damn rums were good last night.

Frankie.

Hi FrankieJ
I have mentioned before mate that with the VP engines I use and I believe the VS is basically the same block you do not have to modify the crossmember, by using the mounts that I make I am able to get the engine about 15mm or so above the crossmember, that is using the V6 Conversions sump which is quite small in the front section it is designed to fit close to the crossmember at the back in between the crossmember and the rear mounted rack re my comment of low and back as far as you can.

Using the V6 Conversions sump actually lined up the TH700 gearbox mount exactly with the sill to sill rail under the firewall so I use the standard commodore gearbox mount.

You will not have a problem with the starter on your V6 mod mate.

I think you were ahead of your time in the 90's mate as the V6 conversions rack is a modified VB VH rack he supplys a strenthening plate and mounts for the rack tie rod end to tie rod end so yes it is still how it is done by some, I use HZ WB stubs on my sedan but the EK ute is going to use HR Drum stubs modified with adapter plates to mount the VP rotors and calipers.

The scalloped crossmembers I have seen have been CRS ones that are designed to use the Torana front rack (I dont like it but my opinion).

The steering principle is called the "Ackerman Principle" it talks about the relationship of the front wheels to the rear and the need for one wheel to turn more than the other when turning a corner or the car will not turn properly (a very rough description sorry guys).

My philosophy when I started to do the conversion on my sedan was to use everything I could from the donor keeping the conversion as standard as possible so I used the brake power booster which mounts to the fire wall very easily, the standard shifter (plus floor hump), wiring harness, fuel tank with intank pump etc etc there are obviously some other little tricks I have learnt with the wiring and getting oil gauges and tachos working properly. There are even things like when you get rid of the airconditioning compressor commodores originally came out with air con as non stardard therefore you can get a standard non air con serpentine belt this stops you having to have a one of and if it breaks out in the back of whoop whoop you are not stuffed.


At the moment mate the rums might help you stay a little less confused.
Hope I'm not making it worse.
Regards
Neil H

Hey Niel your knowledge is worth bottling mate and I appreciate the time you have given me, I reckon I will buy a set of your engine mounts and look at the v6 conversions sump or even do my own yet not sure. I also,have two full sets of drum brake stubs so would I be able to use the vs brakes without the abs or should I go with the vn vp brakes. Also I think I will buy myself a rack and pinion as I don't have access to a other anymore,to make my own, but way back when I was building the limo my engineer wouldn't let me use a front mounted rack from crs asmhenthoughtnthe car was to long and needed a better turning circle, I'm glad because he was right and he was very controversial in the 90's, he actually got Howard astills ten inch rims through the rego as standard.....Werner Ihll from TIC was his name you may know him.
Anyway thanks again and still more answers from me, but I can't believe the help I am getting from this forum, looks like I'm back on the rums it's Friday woohoo.

Cheers Frankie.

F@#$%^&*()_ that its 40 degrees.

Air con my arse till I need a bloody jumper

Now that is worth bottling  :P

PS Frankie- Rum is crap :P :P

I was aware of the non air con. belt but still the power steer pump that's why I went VW belt and used my own alternator bracket .So you just have alternator water pump and harmonic balancer and nothing else . Haydn

Hey NES rum is good when you make it yourself mmmmmm yum yum.....dam water.

I had one bad night on rum and can NEVER go back

You don't have to get rid of the air cond... I had it in the van also on the one belt.

Hayden mate you are right about still having the power steering pump however to retain a standard serpentine belt I have found two options
Option 1 - CRS (when I did my sedan) sold a replacement for the pump it is basically a heavy duty bearing and you use the original pulley. I used this but it is expensive.
Option 2 - trying to keep costs down (as I am always on a tight budget) on the EK utes engine I pulled the power steering pump apart, it is a simple vane type pump, and by removing the vanes from the pump shaft, blocking the inlets and outlets and reassembling it you can pack it with grease or put a little oil and it will spin as it did but not build up pressure.
FrankieJ I am not sure about the VS brake calipers I am assuming they are the same or similar ask Pete Mallaby about his adapter plates and I'm sure there would be somebody else that can maybe confirm for you I think NES was going to use VS.
Also speak to Pete re the engine mounts I had him cut the plates for my engine side mounts and the HR mounts will be far better bent up by Pete than the ones I bend up in my little home workshop.
Regards
Neil H

Hey JB did you use the passenger side mounted air compressor mount or mount it in another position as I am going to aircon my sedan - the wife doesn't like it when it is 43 c over here because I didn't allow for it originally I'm going to use an under dash unit and rig the compressor and system somehow I haven't figured that far yet  ;D
Regards
Neil H

What I did was relocate the coil packs to the rear of the engine on the passenger side.
This gave me room to put the aircondioner compressor. I had to make my own bracket and then just went back and forth until I had the right length of belt.
The guys that did the piping were a bit agricultural... It could have looked nicer.. But the A/C works to it capacity.
My problem was that it was th first build I have ever done, so I asked people for advice at stores etc and a lot said you can't do A/C, 5 speed, ABS etc and my mistake was I believed them. I bought a front end from central Victoria as again was told that they were good but it wasn't the truth... Turning circle and Ackerman was terrible... Although Glenn now has this sorted better than when I owned the van. And it was also before this forum was around.
Hence why the ute has all of these things... I don't let anyone tell me I can't anymore, I find people that tell me or show me how I can... Much better outcome.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there is always a way to put what you want into your car, just find the way it will work.
Sorry if it came out as a rant... There are still frustration from years ago obviously... Maybe I need to see someone... Nah in Melbourne... Going to do some wiring on the ute!  :)

I love that attitude JB sounds just like me, I was told by Rod Hadfield that I couldn't put a rear mounted rack on my he frontend, but my engineer told me I have to find a way or use a steering box....oh and that was another conversion I used to do on fj's I used a hk.t.g steering box.....oops got of track there, so with all that in mind I was determined to make it work, and it did and still does so I'm of the same mind set I will make it fit and work, but this forum is helping me choose the right way of doing it as you guys have already done it. This is my first FE build as I have always been an FJ man so there similarities are there but the difference I find is the engine bay is narrower so makes it harder to modify, but I will get there that's for sure and thanks for all the help you guys are giving me....keep it coming I love it.
Cheers Frankie.

Totally agree , all I was saying was you can swing a early V8 bracket onto your alternator and run a vw Passat 6pk 1155 belt and it will simply go round your balancer past your water pump and around your alternator and your there if you are not using power steer and air. And yes , I am always of the opinion that if a human can do it then I can do it [I'm nearly human] . The problem I face is that because I have been involved in restoring these old cars for so long and now have my FC the way I want it and have moved to other [hot rod ] projects I get frustrated with having to jump through hoops every time I find a new idea or a new solution to a long time conversion problem . Anyway now I'm ranting . Haydn

V6 conversions sells a mounting bracket to place a stock VS compressor on the drivers side. Bout 300 smackers 😱

Sorry to steal your thread for a little bit FrankieJ
JB thanks for the info I picked up a brand new VR VS compressor today along with all the hoses and pipes and I will just try to manipulate it all until I get it to fit.

Back to you FrankieJ  ;D

Regards
Neil H

Hey feel,free to steel the thread this is all,good conversation with lots of great ideas and years of car builders amongst us all, I'm loving it oh and the rums baha.
Frankie.

Pure Blondes are my poison mate both two legged and the bottle version   ;D  ::) ::) ::) ::)
Regards
Neil H

Then why the hell am I drinking Fat Yak??? Can't switch to Murrys Whale Ale either then.
Is there a beer called 22 with DD?

I don't thinks at the moment NES but I bet it would see like hot cakes and I can see the advertising campaign right now. Ha ha ha
Regards
Neil H

Some good discussion fellas. I already have my vl column, rack and scalloped cross member for the Chevy and I have the stubs too. Frankie, a bloke in natimuk is doing my rack mod and the column and he has another bloke there with one to do too, so if he is doing ours he might do three together if u want me to ask. He has done plenty and he also advised he wouldn't do a front mount and the engineer won't pass a front either I found out. I was going to use wb brakes but I have a shortened vs Ute lsd v8 diff completed so I'll have to sort the rear to accept the old pattern. I want to use 14 inch wheels to keep it old school or 15's at most. Can anyone tell me if 15" is the minimum required to clear commo brakes. I'm sure later Commodore needs more clearance. Sorry I don't have time to research but just a quick answer cos I think frankie would have same consideration to make. I'm using xb master with Gemini booster.

Hey Deano that would be great if you could ask him for me and what would the cost be for just the rack.
Cheers Frankie.

Dean
I had 14's on my sedan before I finished it (now 15's) and they were fine on my VP Commodore rear brakes.

I've said before that I have HZ WB front aluminium Girlock calipers and rotors and they also clear the 14's fine. Not sure about the later say VS VT ones.

As far as stud pattern they have the same PCD (pitch circle diameter) but the commodore studs are larger diameter; my sedan runs HZ/WB stud pattern which meant that the flanges on my commodore diff had to be redrilled for the smaller studs; with my EK ute I am going to use commodore stud pattern so I only have to change the HZ 1 tonner axle from my long side to the larger stud by drilling out or reaming the smaller holes to the larger size and banging in the commodore studs far easier than having to redrill all of your flanges.
Regards
Neil H

Having worked in the industry, I have to caution against using Commodore wheels on HQ studs and vice versa.
HQ pcd is 4 and 3/4 inches (120.65mm) and Commodore is 120 mm
They are different.
You may say what's half a mm going to matter?
It does matter because the nut and the rim have tapered faces which FORCE the studs to line up with the wheels. This bends the studs and eventually they fracture
I've seen plenty of broken studs and ruined wheels due to this practice.

In extreme circumstances a wheel will come off the car.

Ken

Hey Frankie, do you know what rear end you are using? I'm using a VS V8 Ute lsd diff, same sort of thing as the VL turbo type diff. So Neil, what would you recommend if I'm going to run a scalloped hr front end and hq/wb brakes and I have shortened the borgy diff, then can I just buy studs for the bigger holed flanges and bung them in to reduce the thread size or should I wait til i select the wheels. Basically what I wanna know is if I'm not going over 15" then is it just greater wheel selection the main reason for using Commodore pattern or is it to do with offset. In your opinion is it better to sort the front or rear ends first and if so why. I don't like low profile tyres on a country car cos it's too uncomfortable

I do agree with Ken you have to be safe I wasn't 100% sure on the conversion Ken and shouldn't have made such a general statement; safety is paramount.

As far as your diff goes Dean as I said if you are using HQ WB stub axles and hubs then it is far easier to have the axles of your diff redrilled to the correct PCD and fit the smaller studs making both ends HQ WB. As I said before this is what I did with my sedan.
I think nowdays there is a pretty good selection of older stud pattern wheels so that is not much of an issue however offset is; as I see it rear rim choice has to do with the width of your diff and therefore offset comes into play.
When I had the diff narrowed for my sedan I had it done to retain the standard FC diff width and wheel track in this case the HQ WB rim offset seems to work for me for my EK ute I wanted to run VS SS commodore mags so I narrowed the diff (myself this time) to allow for the offset of the rims (and maintain the EK wheel track) I am using the commodore stud pattern on the back and am going to use the VP rotors and calipers on adapter plates (on modified HR Drum stub axles) (at this point in time) however having read some other posts this can create its own issues because of the rim offset and fouling on the wishbones when turning etc; mention is made of using wheel spacers however I belive these are illegal.
I have probably raised more questions than provided answers maybe some of the other guys have opinions on this matter.
Regards
Neil H

Yeah it's all good, I would never run the different wheels on the other model etc cos I'm ex mechanic and have completed trade school so am aware of the issues. Frankie might have an opinion on this too. I'm trying to achieve a fairly typical period pre 76 type mod list for most component where I can. It's been shortened with the hq era rims in mind so if anyone can recommend any further advice for Frankie and I that would be appreciated. Sometimes I have ideas or things fairly sorted but I still like to hear a range of opinions. Is that ok Frankie.

Yeah that's cool Deano any info would be good info....and I got a present in the mail today as well my wiper motor set up arrived and I'm keen to fit it up this weekend, two speed very nice.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/19/8e52bc9c4fc50e162c0afffa1e9992fb.jpg)

Cool. If you need to make any custom little bits, make some for me too.

No probs Deano I will be onto It this weekend mate

Well had a good go at some modifications today on the fe with some really good results, got the wiper almost fully set up with all new bracket ready to weld in, also modified and fitted a VS Comodore rear seat...and whilst I was at it I trial fitted a gas strut from the vs as well to the boot lid hinge, so all in all not a bad day and finally getting some stuff done.
Cheers Frankie.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/23/fb5965bf395fa7942829564d1be22a78.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/23/b6790ac6358beb5f5ee63018bb086449.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/23/132aef2bde318c48ce666ec5055eb54a.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/23/b8b0c4119ca5b69ccb728c6c3a6d9efe.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/23/ef6e7e3733c864796d48e446f24814b8.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/23/0046c40cb562a896a4b43a6076382bf3.jpg)

Gee that fits nice. Hey I have been thinking of having an access point at the back but my intention is to see if a 15" diameter wheel will fit from the seat end so that I can house stuff in there hidden. Do you have a measurement for me of how high that opening is? Cos could a space saver wheel be rolled in there or a swing out bracket be made. See this, nice little arrangement here. (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/24/0eeba6872406d29269bbb0e84ffe1fce.jpg)

Good to meet the fj legend in person. That was good timing hey.

Hahahahaha Deano yes it was and I will take the legendary status lol.

I'll make the template for the 3mm strengthening plate. Do I send it to the Woolcock address?

Yes that's it mate and thanks for that Deano

Do u have pics of the boot hinge setup ?

Hey Deano the fifth pic shows the boot hinge set up cheers

So it does. Don't know why I missed it. Neat little setup.

Yeah Deano it really just fell into place

How did you go at swaps. Did you find some goodies for this one?

Mate I hardly had a chance to even look around, Friday was the best day, Saturday was ordinary and we packed up early Sunday but I will go again next year.

Hey there forum people sorry but this project has been sold I am now doing up an FJ Holden ute, this is what I really wanted in the first place....I will still hang around here though I love the ideas and maybe even post in another area cheers Frankie