FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

anyone done this before, does it fit in factory tunnel of does it need to be cut
resion i ask
factory box is 2.98:1 first with 3.888:1 diff
m22 has 3.74:1 with a 3.08:1 diff
put the take of about the same a factory but less rpm on fwy

or a w59 supra box and 3.7:1 diff

factory is around 3450rpm @100km
m22 with 3.08:1 2750rpm (same gearing in 1st as std)
w59 (0.85 od) 3.888:1 2950rpm
                    3.7:1 2800rpm
                    3.5:1 2650rpm
                    3.08:1 2350rpm (same gearing in first as std)

What combo's are others running,(rpm at 100, and does to take off well, hp of motor)
as i dont see the 3 spd crunch box handleing any sort of power incress,
i would to keep the coloum shift, for the stock look, but i dont think it will happern.

when i get around to the rebuilt, im aiming for around 150hp mark, nothing to wild (i drive a 450hp car as an everydayer)
200/204@50 400/415 lift 110lc cam(very small custom grind), 6.5:1 comp, 465 holley, toyota blower @ 3-4psi, twin exhaust

On a grey motor??????????


Ken

Are you on the correct forum.   :D A grey is a very small motor. Have you seen the pissy rods in them. What about an old Toyota four speed if ya wanna keep the column shift. Why jump to supra when a standard celica box is way over engineered for a grey.

leave some petrol for us over xmas....
 :D

I'm with Ken,

"nothing to wild"  mmmmm ??? ??? ??? me thinks not. I can tel you from experience, if you want to go any where near 150 with a grey you are looking for "wild" and wild sort of money.

I had an M20 with a 308 diff  in one of my Fc's and you need to modify the whole top of the tunnel if you don't want to change to a larger tunnel. They are a good highway cruising set up, but the celica 5 speed with the 308 is a better one.

regards

Weddo

Am i trying to chase to much power?
Ive only ever bolted one of theis on a stock grey with a small pulley on crank so around 1:1 and boy did it liven it up
Felt like close to 100hp

im aiming for all low end power, with low revs on fwy
the cam and blower i already have, i plane on driving the blower at 1:1 (the is blowers make around 1psi per 1000rpm)
a 200/204@50 is only a 17/60 cam very small and all low end power(1200-3800rpm)
i do plane on a port/polish of the head but nothing off the top
i currently have a set of extractors but I'm looking for a set of good myers pipes that wont break the bank
the carby i have a 465 and 350 sitting at home and plane on trying to one of them

i dont want to cut the tunnel/modify as i dont plane on engineering it, so what ever is on needs to be able to go back to stock.

'fe350chev'
what mdl 4 spd is able to run column shift, and who does theis conversions
i spoke to rodracks and he only does the ausie 4 spd
and there a few modifying the colum shift for a full syncro 3spd box

my only other option is the 148 as under the new law i dont require a engineers cert to install it,
  

I think you mean 149. With that motor you will get more power without a blower I think. Dellow probably have done four speed column conversions if u wanna stick with that. Parts all over for red 149. Keep the grey for changing back to stock

Nothing other than a grey is legal without engineers report now.

Wouldnt a 138 red be legal i have seen a few in earlly holdens still running stock front end and rear end and crash box ?

Think the 138 red came out in a turd runner (torana)

i have been told that the 138 red was optioned in the late fc
as my dad said his first car was a fc red
and a bloke i work with said he had one

ive seen no documented prof of this but being the same motor idd say no engineers is required either
i no of a lot stock/near stock 149 in fe/fc with no engineers and no problems

Do it then if ya can find one. Paint whatever you do in grey cops won't know  unless they are old

even if they are whats the bet they'll remember what a grey looks like
unless they still got one  :D

The 138 was only in torries and exported hq's and johns fc  ;D :D

No FC EVER had a red motor as standard, they are pulling your leg.
And don't think the cops are as thick as you make out.
Gaz

R u a copper  :D :D :D

The red 2250 motor as Deano said was in the standard Torana's it was stamped as a 2.2 on the block. The first red motors 149 & 179 started in the EH holdens all motors before this where 138 grey sideplates up to the EJ
Regards Jim

http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/138_Red

As I said before I never seen any documented proof of it only have a few people tell me that back in the day they had red motors in there's, now it might not of been a 138 I never asked they just said red.

All I want to do is make the drive line more hwy friendly and handle a bit more of a hard time, + give the motor a bit more up and go, if I can get to/over 130hp I'll be happy as I'll have a good power to weight

Lots of people put reds in earlies in the time. They still do. There's not much point putting a HP figure on a grey. Everything you do is marginal. Lots of guys & girls on here have warm greys (me included). I wouldn't have it any other way. The way it takes off after flooring it at 70 mph is so cool. Not V8 or hot red material, but it just keeps on going. And sounds great. And it'll dust off any standard 138 or 149. And with a 3.55 diff.

Colin.

Lots of FC's had red motors fitted after 1964 and up until present, sadly none before 1964 :P

Ken

i've had quite a few 138 reds and every single one has had 138 on the side i've never seen one with 2.2 not saying they didn't just i've never seen it

150 hp grey motor :o i've read articles on race cars with hand grenade engines struggling to make 100 hp

fchoon as far as i know in NSW we can still fit 138 red 149 red with no engineers it's up to who ever is doing the inspection to decide if they're happy with the quality of engine mount welding

i asked my local rta and the 138/149 red i can fit with no engineers, as long as no mods are required and that only different engine mounts are used,
there reason for this is it falls under the new guide lines,
"Fitting equivalent engines with an increase of up to 20% of original power"
and the engine must not
"Fitting engines from non original equipment sources"

Hand grenade?? what hand grenade :D :D :D :D

Starting to think there are a lot of people out there that have forgotten that these old greys love a good time and will take a fair bit of abuse.

Just ask me ;)

Mick 8)

Have to agree with Mick, while I respect others right to choose their power plant (and where the grey is concerned I use the term "power" loosly) it can be souped up, seems a lot of blokes just chuck out the trusty old grey and go looking for more

(http://s7.postimage.org/a20zxwnsn/NORMAN_holdensofagehallsgapshowq4.jpg) ($2)

(http://s15.postimage.org/yea6kfsc7/BIG_NORMAN_TO_GREY_2.jpg) ($2)

(http://s8.postimage.org/4hlrezsq9/EK_SUPERCHARGED_1_03.jpg) ($2)

Not sure who owns the car pics, the grey motor with the test fitted Norman is mine and a work in progress "one day"

Gary

Hi, i am new to this forum and not very good with computers .I have been playing with old holdens since ,well i guess since they were new holdens.My elder brother run every combo known to man in fx-fj holdens in the early 70's.I am unsure what you are trying to archive with this mod. If i was looking to build a user friendly early it would be a v6 holden auto hr frontend commadore disc rearend.This conversion is quite common and works well and wont upset your blue tag guy.I have a red 138 under my workbench.I put one in a ek with a 4 speed Filipino gearbox back in the 80's.it revved well but was slightly underpowered ...would not pull the skin off a custard.I have a xi1 cam and a 12 port head here combined with the 4speed Filipino box could be an old school option.PS Fe to eh try a lc lj torana tailshaft.

G'day mate and I'm glad you've taken the time to share the experience from yourself and your brother, I hear what your saying regarding reliability,power etc from the V6 conversion. I guess its all about differing ways to keep an old Holden out on the road either restored stock standard or modified from mild to wild, either way after the years and dollars I've spent playing with old Holdens and Fords I can appreciate the time and effort put into any rebuilt older car.

I guess for me personally I just get a kick out of sticking with the dinasour grey motor, mine has a mild cam,bit of headwork, electronic dissy, extractors and twin strombergs (soon to be triples)
It will cruise safely at highway speeds all day with some in reserve, when I was just starting to drive decades ago grey powered earlies were plentiful and cheap to buy and maintain.(little did we know we driving future "classics")  ;)

Mick 8)

for me the grey is a good option, it keeps the car traditional, to the way it was built + the car is dead stock, except for the rims 8)
if i was after a drag car i wouldn't have brought a classic, and the only engine idd be putting in it's place would have 8 cylinders, but as the car is stock, it'll stay that way,

I'm just trying to source some box options to make fwy driving a bit easier, and handle some extra grunt,

another thing i look at is power to weight, with a grey the weight of the vehicle is kept low around 1150kg kerb 1060 tare
once you fit a v6 of v8 the weight go up about 250 kg with all bits and pieces you need to add.

vr v6 130kw@1400kg= 93kw per 1000k
vz v6 153kw@1400kg= 109kw per 1000kg
worked grey 130hp/100kw @1150= 87kw per 1000kg

stock vz 152kw@1590kg tare= 96kw per 1000kg
my stock grey 70hp/53kw@1060 tare= 50kw per 1000kg

yes there are more powerful v6 around (175/190kw) but they are also alot more expensive, and cost more to fit

thats still a mid 15sec pass, witch is no slug for a 50 year old car with a 50year old power-plant

Well John I'm glad you have finally found the answer man. I think mick.'s setup is best for a reliable cruiser. Bigger the blower and shit like that if you want reliability.

 Hi John,

 If you're keen on sticking with a hot grey they work pretty well at highway speed with 3.36 gears on 13" wheels.

 A mate of mine had a grey powered ek ute as a daily driver for a few years.

 It was running a ported head with red valves and double springs, 35-75 cam and triple 1.75" side draught (lc gtr) stromberg carbies. Column 3 speed (crash box) with 3.36's and 13" rims. Went really well for what it was and we had a heap of fun in it. It could do near on 110mph flat out, outrun a stock 186 and got close to 28mpg on trips.

 Without trying to smoke the tyres the drive train took a fair pounding without giving much trouble.

 Rob..

Go the greys ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mick 8)

to much theory not enough practicle there ;) ;D i've had ALL sorts of options in early holdens for me grey's will do the job and are cool (BUT dear as poison to do anything to these days) a red is my prefered option (just about all of my driving is open road 100-110 +kmh :-X driving, 6 is only my prefered option due to ease of fitting and cost otherwise it would be V8, V6 maybe but they sound horrid
here's my practicle i think 130+HP from a grey would be hard to achieve in a streetable car, BUT you will get them to go reasonably well, i've had many hotty red 6's one day i bought a V6 manual VN wagon and in that VN (heavier than an early holden) it went like a scalded cat would have given alot of hot reds in early holdens a REAL good run for there money and left most watching the back of the wagon dissapearing all this with great fuel economy, i've had a few V8 earlies and well in a nutshell they were FANTASTIC ;) ;D
BUT these are just my views am in no way trying to persuade you not to use a grey, have you considered a 5 speed there's a fairly good how to on the FB/EK forum it's behind a grey and the guy seems wrapped in the conversion

there only 'dear as poison' when you consider money in to power out, there no different in price to rebuild then any 6 or 8 out there, i found that there cheaper, its only the bolt on stuff thats harder to sauce

buy a manifold for a mild 8 and it $450+ new 200 s/hand, there no new one for grey so s/hand it is @ $150,  ;D see it cheaper already (that what i tell the misses)


im leaning towards the grey powered 5 speed, there are plenty w50 with red motor bellhousings, but idd like something with a taller 1 and 5th
but if thats all i can get then itll be that i guess,

i would like to not cut up the floor if i can.

does any one no what the biggest 5 speed that will fit a std tunnel?

and with fitting a rear crossmember can i leave the rear engine mounts out? or put them in?
as not all boxes have the facility to put on, unless i modify the dust cover to suit mounts?


on a side note 130hp/100kw on a 1100kg car is by no means quick @ 87kw per tonn, my everydayer has 192kw per tonn,
that like putting 275hp/211kw in a standard weight fc,
and i think my everydayer is slow, (hsv r8 with w/p powerpack 450hp/340kw)