FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hi Guys and Gals
My Missus really does love me :-* :-* My have to change my username now, ;D
Cos look what she bought me for my 50th :o :o 8)

(http://s8.postimage.org/4tlq92gyp/KGr_Hq_MOKj0_E5v_O8_Lz_Ql_BOo_O1_N27_w_60_12.jpg) ($2)

(http://s12.postimage.org/kqldkycrd/KGr_Hq_UOKj0_E6_W3guli_BOo_O1_UEYPg_60_12.jpg) ($2)

(http://s8.postimage.org/hotpvtw81/KGr_Hq_IOKj_YE5qm_Um627_BOo_O1_Gc_Yv_60_12.jpg) ($2)

Some of you may have seen it on ebay last week but it didn't reach reserve. I called the guy up and sent a mate ( actually my wifes' friend) to go and take a look at it. He called me and said that it was very straight. I didn't take it any further as I thougth it best if I finished off the wagon, but the wife went and asked him to make an offer which the guy accepted and now I got another standard sedan.
Its very original but has had a repaint which is OK ( ish) from what my friend said. He is a bit fussy! No rust.
He is a car dealer and has a car carrier so I'll hopefully get it pretty soon.
Keep you posted..on this when I get it .... and MUST KEEP FOCUSED ON THE WAGON

You might have to bottle the missus. Thats not a bad pressie. Very jealous offcourse. Happy birthday :D

Regards

Wayne b

Must show the wife this post.
My 50th is just around the corner.
Congrats on the cool present, and for landing a cool wife.
Now try to hold on to them both!!.
Regards
Alex

Does your wife want to have coffee with mine ..


I have another 19 years to go so fingers crossed for my 50th LOL

Gees, what a lovely wife.....mine wouldn't do that, cos that would mean less time in the shed and then she would have to talk to me  :D

So how are you going to cope with the sibling rivalry? The other one is going to be soooo jealous of the new one!

Wow ... Happy 50th Nick ...Look forward to seeing your pressie !!!

PS . Does Sherylyn have a sister ? LOL .

Actually she does have a twin sister. Single and quite tidy too.
I think I'm allowed to say that!
Had the wife 20 years now so I can't shake her, think that she's here to stay, even with my FC obsession.
The Car arrived tonight. which was a bit of a suprise as she said I wouldn't get it till my b'day ( 25th dec) Took it for a quick spin in the wet. ( on dealers plates)Never driven on cross plys before. It was like driving through a muddy field.
Goes well. Will try and get a blue slip tomorrow,
Stay tuned. Will post some more pictures tomorrow and post some no's for Ken.
Nick

Maybe she is a evil twin and doesnt like cars ;D


Car sound s great.

Pete

Woohoo !!! ...and good news about the car too !!! LOL

You taking it to the show on Sunday ?? ...I'll follow you down in the ute ...

Will give you a call on Sat ... Dave .

SHE'S A KEEPER!!!

Twin sister and single i may have to catch up so i can meet this sister ive seen your wife nick and she is a looker

Only 4 years to go I've left the computer on and left it on this page so when she shuts it off she will see this here's hoping

New Dragways
(http://s17.postimage.org/jluhk1ly3/230712_007.jpg) ($2)

(http://s7.postimage.org/awgbwr913/230712_004.jpg) ($2)
Missing one centre cap... but I think I got one on Ebay tonight 8) 8)
Nick

Nice pic's of the car but where is the pic's of the sister?

Thats a real nice looking fc . Dragways really make fcs look greater. ;D

They look great Nick ... Better than great in fact !!! Did you get those centre caps ??? I'll check 'em out on Saturday ...

Me too!

Nick if you didn't get that cap I have a brand new one and no rims so let me know and you can have it.
And I agree Dragways look great on FC's

Regards
Neil

I've just saved this thread as the home page on my wifes pc....haha...and she doesn't know how to change it. My birthday in a few days....bit late to drop the hint now I guess...

Pinky.

This car is awesome! was privileged to be a passenger for a quick hoon around Port M Friday morning, loved it!

Thanks Jamahl... it was great to catch up with you on the weekend.... put a face to a name... Again I must say everyone who I have met from the forum or the various clubs have been exceptional individuals 8) 8)

I knew I had a slight leak in the LHR wheel cylinder...so I thought that I would change them before dring down to Sydney this weekend for CARnivale.
Look what I found. So not sure if this post us hold be placed in vehicles no construction. :P

(http://s7.postimage.org/dehwvnl1j/image.jpg) ($2)


Changed both wheel cylinders and also put the springs from the wagon into the sedan cos the wheels kept on scraping the wheel arch going over a bump and there was no way I coould put anyone in the back. Took a while but  did it.

It sits quite high now but the ride is much better. Does feel quite bouncy and haven't scrapped the tyres today ;D

(http://s7.postimage.org/x8urqalhj/image.jpg) ($2)
fee

Nick

Happens when you drive upside down!!!!!! ;D

yeah it bouced around A LOT  ;D
Damm ipad.

I'm not sure does this go back to vehicles under construction
Doing a little bit of a tidy up on snowwhite
The engine was leaking quite a bit of oil and it did not have unleaded valves so I have taken it out.

(https://s22.postimg.org/n2bl63l7h/image.jpg) ($2)
And put in the one that I had built up for the wagon

(https://s9.postimg.org/5klt1hfej/image.jpg) ($2)
I was just going to give the engine bay a bit of a cleanup But as you know it's never that simple
(https://s17.postimg.org/4k0zoqtnf/image.jpg) ($2)

(https://s17.postimg.org/irqode6cb/image.jpg) ($2)
I also want to lower it and I have got some lowering blocks from Pete Mallaby.

(https://s14.postimg.org/qdk2p5v31/image.jpg) ($2)
Is it worth getting this radiator re-welding. What are the three core radiators  like on eBay. The aluminium ones.

(https://s14.postimg.org/nxi9bbd0d/image.jpg) ($2)

The plan is to send it to the sandblasters to get the engine bay and underside cleaned up. And put it all back together

(https://s22.postimg.org/d88qv3xbx/image.jpg) ($2)
Does anyone make reproduction ones of these
(https://s22.postimg.org/f1bnjfiil/image.jpg) ($2)

(https://s22.postimg.org/6kc58idtp/image.jpg) ($2)
The place is a bloody mess!
Nick

I dont think they do nick

But i think i kept mine off the wagon i shall go looking for you.

(https://s2.postimg.org/6shhj3hx1/IMG_2925.jpg) ($2)
New engine in. New brake lines fitted and brakes bled.  At least it can stop now!!
(https://s11.postimg.org/pvqho8d3j/image.jpg) ($2)
New vacuum advance line and fuel line tidied up
(https://s17.postimg.org/eeirtinwb/image.jpg) ($2)


(https://s17.postimg.org/h416m0k4r/image.jpg) ($2)
 Couple of questions. Does the choke cable need to go through both carbies
The distributor is sitting probably 2 mm proud of the base. it should sit flat shouldn't it.

That last photo is of a relay that attaches to the starter motor. What function would that too. I've got one loose wire coming off it?

Nick,

Choke cable: yes, it has to connect to both carburettors.
Starter motor relay:  For a grey motor starter, it's probably unnecessary.

Connect purple "start" wire from harness to one side of relay coil.  Connect other side of relay coil to ground. Connect one side (common) of relay contacts to big battery cable on the starter solenoid.  Connect other side of relay contacts (normally open) to the screw terminal on the starter solenoid where the purple "start" wire used to go.

Distributor: don't know.  I'd need to take a look at a photo.

Rob

Thanks Rob.
Better get a bigger choke cable. Are these available.?
Nick

Hi Nick,

The following is my experience in regards to the choke with twin carbies. I have used the original cable and hooked it up to the rear carby. I slightly drilled a larger hole where the wires go through. From there I got another piece of wire to join the two carbies. It worked but not to my entire satisfaction. The reason for that I was not convinced the front carby was fully closed when the cable was pushed in. I then disconnected the front carby and them wired it completely open. I now use the choke only on the rear carby and the motor works perfectly as a choke from a cold start. I will endeavour to try and get a photo over the weekend.

If you still want to use the choke on both carbies I have read somewhere (may Harv's carby guide) where others have used a hacksaw blade cut to size to join both carbies.

Cheers

Rod

Thanks Rod
Look fwd to photo
Someone also mentioned cable

Hmm,
Saturday's job.. change master cylinder and re-bleed brakes.
 Clean the floor

Try a shortened push bike wheel spoke for choke.

Now there's a thought.  And perhaps you could raid a "chocolate-block" electrical terminal strip for the brass tubular fitting with two clamp screws in it.

For reference, the X2s had a longer choke cable, with a section of (plastic) outer slipped over the inner cable between the two carburettors.  The choke cable retainer clamp was fitted to the rear carburettor only.

Rob

great Idea EHSV6.
Always helpful Rod
Nick

And Rob

Way to go for that nice runner!

Ok a bit has happened.
Got the motor fired up which sounded really nice but had oil pissing out the rear main.

Out comes the motor and check it out.
Never done this before so relying on some mates
(https://s18.postimg.org/jflxdersl/IMG_3420.jpg) ($2)
 and Facebook for advice as well. Have the option of getting it done in town but they are not back till after New Years.
Pulled off sump and have noticed a few things which have been pointed out to me. One is the pitting on the crank shaft where it sits over the seal. Two is the mainseal is sitting quite proud of the block where the two join
(https://s18.postimg.org/839bvovz9/IMG_3431.jpg) ($2)
and that would not help.
Got my mate and local NRMA mechanic coming round this afternoon to have a look.
The wagon is definitely going to get an upgrade!

Better move this to cars under construction

Rear main seal looks U/S  :(

Some good info regarding rear mains seals here: http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=25680.0 ($2)

It is important to use a mandrel to set the rear seal in correctly - check out the FE-FC Manual page 191 for the correct service tool 6A6

Even a new seal may leak for a little while until it beds in correctly although a good mechanic in the VIC Club reckons the success rate is often 50/50  :o

Trevor_B

I’ve heard of using the crank with con rods disconnected and slowly torquing up main cap till seal binds. Spin by hand till free and repeat over 24 hours. Seal is soaked in engine oil prior I’m thinking.
Cheers
Clay


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nick,

I've just finished another grey motor rebuild, and spent the usual amount of time swearing (and sweating) over the rear main bearing oil seal.

Don't worry too much that the seal bearing surface on the crankshaft has some surface rust on it.  Even minor pitting isn't a show-stopper.

To the best of my knowledge at the moment, this is how to install a rear main bearing oil seal (assumes that you're starting from a bare block, with the main bearings installed)-

Tools needed are a scalpel, or a Stanley knife or similar, with new blades, and a good-quality pair of flush-cutting side-cutters.

As a sanity check, install the rear main bearing cap (no bearing shells, no seal), and check that there is no clearance between the rear of the cap and the block.  Lay a narrow strip of alfoil on the mating faces.  If it rips off rather than pulling out when the cap bolts are tightened, then all is good.

Soak the seals to be installed in engine oil for 24 hours.

Crowd the seal in the groove in the block, pushing it down gently with your thumb.  Cut the seal off about 1 mm proud of the mating faces.  Cut the "step" into the seal with the knife, about 1 mm proud of the parting face.  Patience.  The seal leaves stringy bits.  Several attempts are needed to cut the seal material down.  Lots of little bites are better than one big one.

Crowd the seal into the groove in the rear main bearing cap, just like in the block, and cut the seal so it's about 1 mm proud of the mating faces, including the "step" in the rear main bearing cap.  Patience . . .

With the crankshaft out, put the rear main bearing cap in position and nip it down, then remove it.  Examine the mating faces of the block and cap for seal material "squished" out between the faces.  Trim these off, and re-install the rear main bearing cap.  Repeat, as often as needed, until there's no seal material caught between the mating faces.  It's OK to have little fraying bits of seal along the parting line in the crankshaft tunnel.

Install crankshaft, and torque the front three main bearing caps to specification.  Rock the crank back and forth a bit by hand to check that the seal doesn't want to spin in the groove.

Install the rear main bearing cap, and tighten the bolts down firmly.  Remove the rear main bearing cap, and check that there's no seal material caught between the mating faces.  Check also that the woven material hasn't been pushed down away from the joining line.

When you're satisfied that all looks good, wipe the oil away from the mating faces on block and bearing cap.  Apply a thin smear of Silastic to the mating face of the rear main bearing cap, from the "step" just behind the seal, continuing the full width of the rear main bearing cap.  Tighten the rear main bearing cap bolts to specification.  You should see Silastic ooze out between the cap and the block, for the full width of the cap.

Continue with the engine assembly.

When the engine's started for the first time, it's normal to see a couple of drips of thick black goop drop off the back of the sump.  This is the oil that you soaked the seal in, plus graphite from the seal.

Rob

Wow thanks Rob.
Sounds very thorough and I would attempt it but at the moment the crank is insitu.
I don't think I have the knowledge to pull the crank out.It is  very interesting and I would like to learn. You need special tools to get the front of the crankcase off.
Give me a step by step on that one. 😊

By the way what seal did you end up using. I see fraze used the Maxparts 6380S

Nick,
Although I’ve not played with the bottom end of a grey I have done so with a later blue engine. I’m no mechanic but don’t mind having a crack at most things. I encourage you to have a go mate. It is relatively simple. You can leave the Pistons and con rods in the bores. All you really need is time and patience, shed, block and tackle or crane, engine stand, spanners and sockets, a puller for the balancer up front, workshop manual and a torque wrench. Gee, now I’ve written it down it is a bit of a list if you don’t have these things already.
It is fun and rewarding and hard to do more damage than good I reckon. You have the additional resource of all the knowledge and advice on here. What ever you do good luck.
Cheers
Clay


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nick,

I used the standard rear main bearing seal supplied with the conversion gasket kit.  That wasn't by choice.  I measured the seal groove and the crankshaft diameter, drew a sketch, and e-mailed it to Best Gasket asking them which Graphtite seal would be suitable.  And I got no response from them. (I've noticed a few times now that companies in the US don't want to know about you if your query can't be answered by looking up a standard catalogue.  End rant.)

Here's how to pull the crankshaft out of a grey motor.  And this is also why fixing a leaking rear main bearing oil seal is such a pain in the arse . . .

- Mount the engine in a stand.  Remove the distributor, the coil, the spark plugs, the dipstick, the fuel pump, the manifolds, the generator, the fan belt, the fan and water pump pulley.

- Remove the rocker cover, the breather pipe and the sideplate. Undo the oil pipe where it goes into the hex fitting at the rockers.  Undo the bolts and nuts holding the rocker assemblies down, and remove the rocker assemblies.  At this point, make sure the pushrods stay in the motor.  Now remove the oil feed pipe.

- if you can rustle up a piece of corrugated plastic or iron with twelve channels in it , so much the better.  Remove the pushrods and lay them in order on the corrugated tray.  Remove the cam followers.  If it's a relatively new motor, they should just slide out.  If the motor's older, they'll be difficult to remove.  Don't use multi-grips, as you'll break the followers.  You'll have to tap them out from underneath . . .

- Tip the motor upside-down and pull the sump off.  (You've already done this, I see)  Undo the nuts on the oil feed pipe at the oil pump and the block.  Loosen the locknut on the oil pump set-screw, then remove the set-screw.  Remove the oil pump and oil feed pipe.

- Now you'll be able to get in and tap the cam followers up (well, down) with a drift or a screwdriver if you couldn't get them out before.  Lay the cam followers in order on the tray.

- Remove the harmonic balancer.  You'll need the right puller.  The original style is available from Rare Spares; the aftermarket balancers take the same puller as red motors.  Undo all the bolts and screws for the timing cover, and remove the timing cover.

- Things get a bit tricky at this point.  You'll need to remove the oil slinger from in front of the crankshaft gear.  If the person who built the motor was considerate, he may have filed a slot in the slinger to clear the key in the crankshaft.  Rotate the slinger to line the slot up with the key, and remove the slinger.  But more likely, you'll have to remove the key from the crank.  Get a brass drift and hit down on the rear end of the key, so that it tilts out at the front.  Then you should be able to lever the key out with a screwdriver.  If the key is stubborn, you'll have to hit it out with the hammer and drift.  Now remove the oil slinger.

- Turn the motor over until the holes in the camshaft gear line up with the thrust washer retaining screws (12 and 6 o'clock).  You'll have to tap the harmonic balancer back on to the hub of the crank to turn the motor over, then remove the balancer again.

- You'll need a 1/4" drive, 7/16" AF socket to undo the thrust washer screws, and it'll be an exact fit in the holes of the timing gear.  Remove the screws.

- Remove the camshaft.  One hand on the timing gear, the other hand to hold the rear of the camshaft, and guide it gently through the bearings to avoid damaging them.

- Now that the camshaft's out, temporarily replace the sideplate and rocker cover to keep the dirt out.

- Front engine mount plate is next.  There are two hex-head bolts (I think) and two countersunk screws to remove.  The countersunk screws will be tight (and staked in place), so you'll need a screwdriver with a 1/2" blade, or an impact driver.  Remove the front engine mount plate.

- Pulling the crankshaft out with the pistons still in the motor is a bit tricky.  Turn the motor over until numbers 3 and 4 pistons are at the bottom of their stroke.  Remove the locknuts, big-end nuts and big-end caps.  Check that the big-end caps have their numbers stamped on them.  Otherwise mark them.  Now turn the motor half a revolution until numbers 3 and 4 are at the top of their stroke.  Now remove the locknuts, big-end nuts and big-end caps from numbers 1,2,5 and 6, and store them in order.

- Undo the main bearing cap bolts, remove the main bearing caps, and store them in order.

- Take a deep breath, prepare a landing place for the crankshaft, and lift it out of the block in one movement, taking care not to ding the journals.

- You may now replace the rear main bearing oil seal.

Rob

Bugger.  I exceeded the 5000-character limit.

Part 2:

Hints for reassembly:

- Push all the pistons to the top of their stroke before re-installing the crank.  Cut off four six-inch lengths of 8 mm ID clear PVC tube and slip them over the big-end bolts of numbers 3 and 4.  Hold the crank so that numbers 3 and 4 are at the top of stroke.  Gently guide the crank into place, ensuring that the crankpins pick up numbers 3 and 4 big-ends, and that 1,2,5 and 6 are well out of the way.  Assemble numbers 3 and 4 big-end caps and nuts finger-tight; then progressively assemble the others, being careful not to ding the crank.  Then install the main bearing caps.

- Use a straightedge to align the faces of the block and number 1 main bearing cap.

- Check that the rear face of the front engine mount plate is flat before assembly (straightedge!).  If it's not flat, the engine will leak oil at the front engine mount plate.  Check also that the lube fitting for the timing gears is clear (blow through it!) and pointing the right way.

- Use button-head socket-head cap screws for the camshaft thrust washer.

- Stake the countersunk screws into place once they're tight.

- When installing the timing cover, leave all the screws loose.  Install the harmonic balancer, using the correct installing tool.  The balancer aligns the oil seal.  Now tighten the timing cover screws.

And finally: measure your main bearing clearances before replacing the rear main bearing oil seal.  If your main bearings are worn, the rear main bearing oil seal will leak.  No exceptions.

As you can tell, it's not a job for the faint-hearted.

Rob

Thanks Rob
You have inspired me to give it a go.
Following your instructions and have got to the point of the removal of harmonic balancer . Bought a universal puller .
(https://s18.postimg.org/mjsyn3gth/IMG_3449.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/giv9q19mt/IMG_3463.jpg) ($2)
Doesn't quite fit and will buy some new longer bolts. Do I have to remove the
(https://s18.postimg.org/oblxi55d1/IMG_3471.jpg) ($2)
nut on the front of the harmonic balancer?? The crank rotates when I try to tighten up the puller
(https://s18.postimg.org/giv9q19mt/IMG_3463.jpg) ($2)

Nick,

After looking at your photos -

Yes.  I think.  If it's not part of the puller, but was on the engine, you'll have to remove the nut (looks like a bolt) at the front of the crankshaft.  I wasn't expecting that to be there.  Someone has drilled and threaded the crankshaft snout.  With a socket of the correct size, a breaker bar, and a hammer, you should be able to loosen the nut.  If the crank turns and the nut doesn't loosen, re-install the flywheel.  A big screwdriver between the ring gear teeth and the gearbox locating dowels will stop the crank from turning.

The bolts supplied with the puller will now be long enough to do the job.  Just make sure that the business end of the puller doesn't moosh the thread in the crankshaft.  Hopefully there's enough of a shoulder on the front of the crank for the puller's bolt to bear on.  Otherwise, place a thick washer of about an inch diameter between the puller and crank.  To stop the crank from turning when you're removing the harmonic balancer, stick a long screwdriver in to pick up two of the puller's bolts.  That's if you didn't install the flywheel.

Best of luck,

Rob

Got the balancer off

(https://s18.postimg.org/akhwyumxx/image.jpg) ($2) There are 3 different sized bolts holding the timing cover?? Two are 13 mm😡
One of them protrudes through and fouls the front seal as the picture shows.??
(https://s18.postimg.org/sajlk335h/IMG_3475.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/ba0pbhaph/IMG_3476.jpg) ($2)

I guess the whole timing gear needs to come out yeah!
It's getting scarey. Hope i can put it back together .😊
(https://s18.postimg.org/asa59daid/image.jpg) ($2)

It's ok I re read your post . Take cam out!!
The contersunk  hex screws have morphed into bolts that are down pretty flush to the front plate.HTF do you get them out drill them and rethread
(https://s18.postimg.org/wfz3jusx1/IMG_3478.jpg) ($2)

The big end caps are on pretty tight??
Hints!
So far Rob your instructions have been faultless
(https://s18.postimg.org/q7drq3vad/IMG_3479.jpg) ($2)

Hi Nick, I’d try cutting a slot in the bolt head with a 1mm cut off wheel and use a flat head screwdriver.
Jim

I used a large knuckle bar and extension to clear the crank, needs a fair effort to crack the nuts though.
Jim

Got it Jim
Bit of fiddling

Do they write on the cam s
(https://s18.postimg.org/wz8s6vhf9/IMG_3480.jpg) ($2)
haft as to what grind it is ?

If the slot and I suggest hammer impact punch fails you could try an easy out. Not that I’ve had huge success with them. Otherwise drill a hole in some flat bar and mig to the bolt head. The heat will help shift it as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

All out
No tools just a bit of wiggling and gently turn crankshaft
(https://s18.postimg.org/nu0fcotcl/IMG_3481.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/51ok94cdx/IMG_3485.jpg) ($2)
Still stuck on these ?? Why would you put those in?? Completely jammed 😠

Nick,

Excellent progress.  But it's a shame that the engine has a few "non-standard" (read slightly bodgy) features.

You worked out how to remove the big-end caps.  Usually it's a couple of side-to-side taps with a hammer and brass drift.

To get the ground-down hex-head bolts off, you may need to sacrifice a socket.  If you can get a six-point socket of the right size, I'd suggest one of those.  If you can't get a six-point socket, buy a twelve-point socket (that's one of the normal kind), and grind about a millimetre off the business end so there's no chamfer left.  Then use a breaker bar to undo the two bolts.  Lean in hard on the back of the socket to stop it from slipping.  Or, use the ground-down socket with an impact driver.

Desperation measures:  get an old 3/8" socket extension, grind the chrome off, and weld it onto the bolt head.  Just don't weld the bolt head to the front engine mount plate . . .  Or grind a slot into the bolt head and use an impact driver, as has been suggested.

When it comes time to reassemble the engine, see whether you can buy 5/16" UNC countersunk socket head (i.e. Allen) screws.  That's a problem for later.

They don't write on the camshaft what grind it is.  But you can tell whether it has been reground.  Original fibre timing gear says to me that it's a standard cam.  On a standard cam, the followers protrude maybe a millimetre proud of the block when the valves are closed.  If the cam's been reground, the followers will sit down lower than that.  You can also tell by looking at the camshaft.  Standard cams have a "rough-cast" appearance between the lobes, and the "base circle" of the lobes is a couple of millimetres proud of the shaft itself.  On a mild grind, the base circle will be really close the body of the shaft, and on a wild grind, the entire shaft will have been machined down between the cam lobes.

Rob

I can relate to your thinking!

Great support, great reading.

All sorted.
Cut a groove with 1mm disc and screwed out easy.

(https://s18.postimg.org/anorirc6t/IMG_3492.jpg) ($2)

Crank out and parts all set out. Need to get a gasket set .


(https://s18.postimg.org/anorirc6t/IMG_3492.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/yihygzs45/IMG_3493.jpg) ($2)
Who would supply extra rear mains as I might need a few goes at it
ll

Nick,

Well disassembled!

It looks like your camshaft is a mild grind, but the photo's a little motion-blurred.

Your local parts outlet should be able to source the rear main bearing oil seal as a loose part.  I recently bought a grey motor rear main seal from Auto Surplus in Melbourne.  They have gasket kits in stock, take orders over the phone, and their deliveries are prompt.

If you get really stuck, I can send you that one.

For reference, the countersunk screw for the front engine mount plate is 5/16" UNC x 5/8" long.  Your local engineering supply place should be able to source them.  If not, Lee Brothers in Parramatta is sure to have them.

Does your engine have the oil slinger in front of the crankshaft gear?  It's a sheet metal disc, just larger in diameter than the crankshaft gear.  If the engine didn't have one, I'd recommend getting one, for reduced risk of oil leaks out the timing case oil seal.  File a notch in the oil slinger to clear the Woodruff key in the crankshaft, so you don't have to take the key out to put the slinger on.

Rob

Hey Rob,
I'm trying to find out what the grind on it was. He said that he did it when getting the crank ground. Can you tell from that crappy photo??
Ive ordered an old(?) rope seal from a site on facebook (Early holden and Ford bumpers James Rayner) for 36 buck each.

I took the slinger out and have filed a notch in it.
(https://s17.postimg.org/v4aku6stn/IMG_3477.jpg) ($2)

One other issue is with the timing case. As you can see from this photo the bolt protrudes into the gasket for the front crank cap. ??

Thanks Heaps
Nick

Nick,

The wrong length bolts were put in those two positions.  Cut those two hex. head bolts down to the right length (flush with the back of the front engine mount plate).  Looking at the photo more closely, your motor is either a late B-series, or a J-series block, from the sizes of the bolt heads.  But the timing case is from an early.  There should be a crescent-shaped reinforcement spot-welded to the timing case.  But your timing case hasn't leaked any . . .

You'll have to take some measurements to determine the cam grind.

Once you've installed the camshaft, leave the timing case off, but temporarily put the harmonic balancer and flywheel back on.  Fashion a pointer out of stiff wire and hold it in place with one of the timing cover bolts.  Turn the crank over until no. 1 is at top dead centre (the "T" mark on the ring gear aligned with the pointer on the inspection hole, I think) and mark the harmonic balancer at this point.  Long screwdriver in no. 1 spark plug hole is the most reliable way of finding TDC.  Install the two followers and pushrods for no. 1 cylinder, and then the front rocker assembly.  Adjust the valve clearances to 0.015" inlet and exhaust (a best-guess at the moment) with no. 1 at TDC.  Turn the engine through the firing stroke, and the exhaust stroke. The exhaust valve will open.  As the exhaust valve closes, turn the engine over bit by bit and twirl the inlet valve pushrod, just until you can't twirl the pushrod between your fingers.  Mark this point on the harmonic balancer with an "I".  Then keep turning the engine over bit by bit, just until the exhaust valve pushrod frees up enough to twirl it between your fingers.  Mark this spot on the harmonic balancer with an "E".  Now you need to find the protractor you took to high school maths classes.  Measure the angle between top dead centre and "I"; and also between top dead centre and "E".

Standard cam timing is 4-6 degrees from TDC (bugger all).  I'm expecting that "I" and "E" will be about 20 degrees from TDC, which would suggest that you have a 20/60 grind.  If you measure around 25 degrees, then you'll have a 25/65 grind, which will give you quite a "buppitabuppita" idle.  The next one up is 30/70, which would make driving in traffic annoying.

Rob

Thanks .. again very informative
That's for later .😢 Yeah it's a B block.
Makes me think I can do this.
Hopefully I will get the grind measurement.
I asked for a mild grind.

I’ve looked into it for my engine, getting the head done with 202 valves and VL/Nissan 3ltr outer valve springs. I was told that a good mild grind for the cam was 65/25.
Jim

I think that's what I asked for Jim.
Here is a picture of the seal as I have taken it out.

(https://s18.postimg.org/evgdn5cw5/IMG_3499.jpg) ($2)

I think that the cut needs to be a bit cleaner?

Question for Lako who bent his front engine plate when he dropped his.. well it doesn't really matter what happened😂😐. He can explain but is it cast or pressed. Can you straighten it with a hammer ??

As Rob said in his responses, you need to cut them flush with a sharp stanley knife or similar for a neat cut.
The engine plate is pressed, so it should be able to be straightened. If not,I have a couple of spares if you need one.
Jim

Nick,

Were the fraying bits on the seal caught between the block and rear main bearing cap?
And is this the seal half that came out of the block, or the bearing cap?
What's the other half like?

So many questions . . .

Rob

That's the seal from the block
This is the seal from the main cap
(https://s18.postimg.org/nskk7gfed/image.jpg) ($2)
(https://s18.postimg.org/i5o79mxcl/image.jpg) ($2)
Got a gasket set and now soaking the bearing seals.
Have also bought 2 NOS seals . The first ones will be a trial run.

Nick,

It won't be hard to do a neater job on the rear main bearing oil seal than that . . .

Rob

I have noticed that the bottom bearing cap protrudes past the piston retainer on the front piston is that ok???
(https://s18.postimg.org/hizee9sid/IMG_3506.jpg) ($2)

Nick,

Yes.  That's by design.  The ends of the bearing shells protrude slightly above the mating faces, so that when you tighten the cap up, the bearing shells are locked tightly in place.

There's a proviso though - you should be able to push the bearing shell "home" into the big end with your thumbs, and it should sit there, slightly compressed.  In motors that have been driven very hard, the bearing shells stretch and go oval.  In this condition they just fall out of the conrod or big end cap.  This affects red motors more than greys, but you need to watch out for it.

The photo suggests that your bearings are in very good condition though.

Rob

Thanks Rob
That's the only one on the front cylinder. ( is that 1 or 6 ). The rest of them are flat.
Yes the bearings are new.

What is the best way to cut around the teeth on the rear cap?

(https://s18.postimg.org/ir6a3ht0l/IMG_3515.jpg) ($2)

Nick,

That's the most frustrating part of a rear main bearing oil seal installation.

A scalpel, or a Stanley knife, or a box cutter - with a new blade.  And a Paddle Pop stick.

After crowding the seal into the groove, cut the excess off flat, a a couple of millimetres proud of the top of the teeth.
Then hold the Paddle Pop stick up against the inner surface of the seal so it doesn't push out of the groove, while you make a horizontal cut flush with the surface of the cap, and a vertical cut flush with the side of the teeth.  Pick the cut-off bits of seal away, and repeat the vertical and horizontal cuts until the seal is trimmed away.  You can leave the seal sitting a little proud above the surface of the cap.

Similar deal for the "step" in the cylinder block, although you won't need the Paddle Pop stick.

Change the knife blade when you suspect it's getting blunt; and take your time.  If you get the sh**s with it, walk away and come back later.  With care and patience, you'll get it right first time, and you won't need the second seal.

Rob

Thanks Rob
I have just done a trial run with the old seal. The nos ones haven't arrived and I'd rather wait till they arrive and fit them. The others from the gasket set are still soaking.
(https://s18.postimg.org/4v7qptphh/IMG_3522.jpg) ($2)

Man those things are hard to cut. I used a scalpel and I thought it was blunt 😐
Do I cut out the middle bit between the teeth?
(https://s18.postimg.org/ccgy4wwz9/IMG_3521.jpg)
 ($2)
How's that look?
Nick

Nick,

That looks as good as it can be.  You can cut the seal off so it sits slightly proud (~1 mm max) of the rear main bearing cap's mating face too.
And no, definitely no, do not cut out the part of the seal between the teeth on the bearing cap.  If you do that, you'll leave an eighth-inch gap in the seal, and it will leak worse than before.

Rob

Thanks Rob
The NOS seals have arrived. I got one set soaking and I just tried to fit the other set into the bearing cap.
(https://s18.postimg.org/t74zclqph/IMG_3531.jpg) ($2)

[url=https://postimg.org/image/4dvfbyuud/](https://s18.postimg.org/4dvfbyuud/IMG_3534.jpg)[/

They look awful big.  Is that the  correct way to put it in . It looks like it will need a bit of coaxing?

Nick

Nick,

The seal halves are a lot longer than needed.  You'll be trimming at least half an inch off each end.

To install, bend the seal into a gentle U-shape, put it into the groove, press it down gently with your thumbs, starting from the middle and working your way outwards.  Once the seal's in the groove, push down on the ends of the seal to compress the seal in on itself and further into the groove.  Then you can trim it down as before.

Since you've got a NOS seal, you can do a little detective work for me.  Sometime between 1984 and 2006, the rear main bearing seal changed in composition.  The one I installed in '84 was smooth, glossy with graphite, quite rigid, and could take a clean knife cut.  The 2006 model, and every one I've done since, has been made of this fibreglassy, soft, fraying material that's difficult to cut cleanly, as you've discovered.  Please let me know if the NOS seal is different to work with than the one that's just come out of your motor.

Rob

Hey Rob
The NOS seals are a woven outside with a compressed material inside. The consistency of a firm redskin lolly
(https://s18.postimg.org/n9k3zeczp/IMG_3547.jpg)[/url
This seems to be hard to cut and is very fibrous.
Is this in far enough?
Pressed it down with a little mallets round edge.

(https://s18.postimg.org/v2arrf8p1/IMG_3545.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/6917qrxed/IMG_3546.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/5xjrdi1dh/image.jpg) ($2)

Top seal is in.
Trim the edges.
Should i Put the crank back it to tighten it up??
(https://s18.postimg.org/bzre3zadx/IMG_3548.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/vhm1jy26t/IMG_3549.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/qk8gzcv85/IMG_3551.jpg) ($2)
It actually cuts pretty well. 1st 2 cuts horizontal and vertical and it looks pretty good. Bit of trimming. Going to get a couple of new scalpels
(https://s18.postimg.org/jif4qcr4l/IMG_3553.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/3y7qzxz1h/IMG_3554.jpg) ($2)
As I said it cuts quite easily. Hopefully you can see a bit more of the composition with this cut. First horizontal on the other side
(https://s18.postimg.org/8wv9elslh/IMG_3555.jpg) ($2)

Nick,

The installation looks good, but one thing's got me slightly worried: the mallet.  I hope you haven't pushed the sealing surface of the seal too far down.
You can check that by installing the crankshaft (without the rear main bearing cap), and tightening the front three main bearing caps down.  You should feel quite some resistance when you try to turn the crank by hand.  When you take the crank out, you would want to see an oily imprint on the crank, the full width of the seal.

You can also try the rear main bearing cap on the crankshaft like this -
Get a 3" or 4" G-clamp, and wrap the "anvil" of the G well with masking tape, because you're going to be putting it on the crankshaft journal.  Or use a piece of softwood.  Put the rear main bearing cap, with bearing shell, in its position on the crankshaft, and (gently!) tighten the main bearing cap down onto the crank with the G-clamp.  Put the clamp halfway between the bolt holes of the main bearing cap.  Don't slip.  Release the clamp, and you should see the oily imprint of the seal on the crankshaft.

It might be an idea to squeeze the sides of the seal back together a bit with your thumbnails (or square-nose pliers), so it bulges out inwards a bit more.
The crankshaft is supposed to do to the seal what you did with the mallet, if you follow me . . .

Or, if you have a vernier caliper:  Put the rear main bearing cap in position on the block, without the crank, and tighten the cap bolts down.  With the caliper, measure the inside diameter of the seal, and then measure the diameter of the crankshaft where the seal bears on the crank.  The ID of the seal has to be less than the OD of the crank, otherwise the seal won't seal.

Rob

The seal is sitting quite proud. I just placed the crank back in and there was oil marking visible.
(https://s18.postimg.org/mieiqum9h/IMG_3560.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/n7xb38ho5/IMG_3563.jpg) ($2)
One thing I have done is score the bearing shell!! I will need to replace this won't I. Will I have to do them all??
(https://s18.postimg.org/nkop9fn39/IMG_3567.jpg) ($2)
Nick

 Just rereading the whole post. With regard to the seal your  say to gently massage the seal in with your hands. My grip strength is pretty good being a physiotherapist but there is no way in the wide world of sports that I could have squashed this seal even a little bit with my fingers.
I did flatten the Seal  out a little bit with a flat bar. It did go in fairly easily then, as I could then massage with my fingers.
I'll clamp it tomorrow and also just clean a bit of that pitting too on the crank.

Nick,

Your bearing shells are in such good condition that you won't need to replace them.  Don't worry that you have scored the inner surface of the rear main bearing.  As you've just discovered, the material is quite soft.  And luck is on your side - the bearing shell in the block is put under less load than the shell in the bearing cap.  The only thing to worry about is dirt or grit on the bearing surface.  Wipe the bearing clean with a lint-free rag, and then run your fingertip inside the bearing.  If it feels smooth to the finger, it is smooth.

Your bearings all look shiny and unmarked on the inside.  If they have deep scratches or embedded foreign matter, then it'd be worth replacing them.  One other thing to look for is voids in the bearing metal.  These generally look like little crows' feet or snowflakes of missing metal.  If you have these, you'd be best off replacing your bearings.

And before you clean the pitting off the crank where the seal seals, again I'd advise caution.  All the seal needs to seal against is a smooth surface.  It doesn't care whether the surface is metal or oxide.  Again, I'd suggest the fingertip test.  If the surface feels smooth to your finger, I'd leave it as it is.  If you feel slight roughness, polish the surface lightly with 600 or finer wet'n'dry and see how it feels when you rub your finger along it.

Rob

Ok I'm back
The crank just had remnants from the old seal.
It linished off smoothly.
I had a mate who knew an old mechanic who came round and put in the rear main seal.

(https://s18.postimg.org/bn3t7jikl/IMG_3585.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/fjh53jqph/IMG_3586.jpg) ($2)
It took 4 hours but it was great watching him!
Now it's put together time.
I have a new gasket for the sump and bearing cap.
The sump gasket looks great. Do I trim the main cap gaskets as they seem a bit big?

(https://s18.postimg.org/ng67pgmdx/IMG_3588.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/6fnbgsos5/IMG_3589.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/uxff50jqd/IMG_3590.jpg) ($2)
main cap bearing gaskets fit pretty good . I guess I should trim the end off?

Back in the 70's I worked at the first service station in this area with my brother in law ,we had the workshop as well and we would use a large socket close to the crank size to shape the seal as we trial fitted the bearing on and off until the seal was fitted and trimmed correctly. Easier than lifting the crank in and out. Just a thought . Cheers Haydn

Nick,

Welcome back.

Yes, it helps to trim a little off the end cork seals to make them seat better.  You may also find it easier if  you put a slight chamfer all the way along the cork so it starts more easily into the groove.

Rob

Thanks
Haydn the rear main is in now,  it's the endcap bearing  gasket that I will trim and butt the sump gasket up to the endcap.
That way it is continuous with the surface of the block.
Getting there!!

Getting close now Nick.
John

Still heaps to do John. Upholstery and some rust

(https://s13.postimg.org/ss3ztz1ar/IMG_3595.jpg) ($2)

(https://s13.postimg.org/wohbpz9fn/IMG_3596.jpg) ($2)

(https://s13.postimg.org/fnyfhb443/IMG_3598.jpg) ($2)
Cam in and cover on. Bolts shortened so not to foul endcap sump gasket.
 

(https://s18.postimg.org/ed5sj1m1x/IMG_3591.jpg) ($2)

(https://s18.postimg.org/cmmrhahat/IMG_3597.jpg) ($2)

Nearly back together.

(https://s14.postimg.org/hubuhnpfx/IMG_3606.jpg) ($2)

(https://s14.postimg.org/52xob6i8t/IMG_3607.jpg) ($2)