FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Could somebody please enlighten me as to the pro's /con's of each. Looks like I got a bit of rust repairs to do :D
And using flux wire with gas ??? ???

whatever you do go gas otherwise you are trying to weld light panels with big flux cored wire.

Buy a nice 190 amp mig dont go any smaller or you will regret it.
 get a quality brand mig as the coils in the cheaper brands shag out pretty quick.
I sell a nice migomag 190 for  $1200 ish and all my mates are happy with them.
migomag monomig kemppi are all good CIG are now just rubish plastic feed wheels ect.

If you get something nice like that run 0.6mm wire dont use 0.9mm it just needs to much heat to melt it and you will blow more holes 0.6 you can turn it right down and weld nice.

all your bunnings hardware welders are toys and rusbish go to a welding shop and pay the little extra for a quality set up.

you may think i will never need a bigger unit like a 190 but you get more welding settings that the smaller units.

i might upset a few but flux cored wire is for cocky farmers not car repairers ..


Pete

Hey Pete while on the subject of mig wire is there a "soft" wire available? I use the .6mm with gas and when welding a patch into a panel the weld is a lot harder to manipulate than the original panel, if you know what I mean.
Thanks, Gary.

No theres not the only way it could be harder is if you cool it with a wet rag it will harden a bit but other than that im not sure whats going on.

pete

rather than list a favourite, what sort of .6 wire should we steer clear of for panel/chassis work?

Pete,
        clearly you know your stuff, i've seen someone using co2 with their MIG welding on a car resto, what's your take on using CO2 gas opposed to Argon .....??

i'm thinking CO2 is the go, as it's much cheaper to re-fill and you own the bottle so no rental..the only difference i seen was you need to push the wire deeper into the weld when starting to ensure heat penetration, than the rest is as per normal.....

be great to know what you think


"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !! "  :D :D :D

FE 4 ME

i actually have not used co2 i know the laser cutters all mix there gases with co2 so they use less of the expensive stuff.


I suppose as long as its a shielding gas it should work ok.

I get G size bottles for $60 exchange so they last all my mates a pretty long time now so we have never looked at a cheaper alternative...


I can ask the welding mob what there take is on it.

Cheers fchoon
   ...It would be handy to know, as ive already got a CO2 bottle, be good to find out before i go the outlay or mistakes...mind you its just a matter of connecting it the my MIG and practise...im not the world's best MIG welder, but from plenty of experience with oxy and lesser with arc welding, it is a tad easier to control than arc, so its all about practise i guess, like MOST things...im on the hunt for some old unrepairable gaurds to chop up and practise my welds... but like all things it's best to heed advise rather than go at it like a bull at a gate.....

I do have flux coated wire, which was what i intending to use..... wouldnt flux wire be better for outdoor welds ?, such as working on a car outside...wouldn't wind effect the gas protecting the weld ???

thankx for your advise fchoon

"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !! "  :D :D :D

FE 4 ME

the problem with flux cored its always larger diameter and you have to get more heat into it to melt it and it blows holes.

Another good practice pull your liner out and blow it back from handpiece end thru get the crap out also put some lube on your rollers and make sure they spin free and are not gummed up.

this is all very useful.

Thankx fchoon,
  i will do that, the MIG has been sitting in the shed for awhile and I'm sure there could be plenty of dust and stuff inside it...will do a good clean out b4 i zap things


just a note, i have a new sealed coil of 0.8mm flux wire..so this wont do the job  ??


FE 4 ME   

Also fchoon,
    i havent checked it out yet ( being 9.30pm heheh  :) ), what's involved in pulling the liner out ? is it a question of pulling the handpiece apart and going from there ? or is it more simple than that or there are other tricks involved ??

cheers  :D :D :D

FE 4 ME

http://fefcholden.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,6422.0.html

Not happy jan - the above link has a lot of discussion that I was reading. Its really hard with welding cos each machine is different and every welder has their own ways, its a bit like bloody spray guns! ???

0.8 is just a bit harder as like flux cored you need more heat try it but buy a small roll of 0.6 and try that heaps of difference.

Depending on your mig to remove the liner detach the handpiece from the mig take your tip and gas diffuser out and where it screws onto the machine there will be a brass nut undo it and simply full the liner out.

Thankx for your info fchoon,
    when it stops raining i will go and check it out...can you get .6mm flux wire ? or is .8mm the smallest ?

hehehe does anyone want to buy a full coil of .8mm flux core wire ???   :o ;D ;D ;D

"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "  :D :D :D


FE 4 ME

You know i was just thinking i might get off this computer and get my butt down to gasweld or BOC and talk to the techs ( after i check out my MIG )

but indeed thankx for your input...it's been a gr8 help

" Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "  :D :D :D  Me Holden mates

FE 4 ME

Well it stopped raining and now i have the secs on my MIG...it's a Migmate turbo 105.... so i gather this is only a 105 amp

cant find the manual, so now i will search online and see what i can find, but im sure the 105 must mean Amps

will this MIG cut doin some panel work ?

im hoping it will, as i will also be using it to weld up a frame for a large gate, if not its my arc welder... but would prefer to test out the MIG

hope this MIG will be good enough for panel work

please let me know your opinion  fchoon and others


cheers


"Hope you Have A Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "  :D :D :D


FE 4 ME

+1 for the MigoMag.

I've been using a MigOMag 195 for 10 years and it has never let me down. good adjustability and easy to use.

1200 is a good deal on those Pete. I paid alot more than that.

use Argoshield light and 0.6mm wire as you get better welds, less spatter.

forget gasless.

105 isn't necessarily related to strength, check the duty cycle for that.

60% @ 105A etc would mean it can weld for 6 mins out of 10 for example at that strength before needing a rest.

One more thing is a mate of mine thought bigger was better so he went and bought a second hand Migomag 240.  He then had to change everything (feed rollers etc) to suit smaller wire and the lower settings don't have enough comparable fine tuning for sheet work.  Great if you do 2 - 10mm all the time, not as good for 1mm work (compared to the 195)... He would have been better off buying the right size machine IMO.


Cheers

Ed

Thankx for your input ED,
               

I just checked the MIG Specs written on the side and it says as follows :-


  Rated output current 25% cycle at 50 Amps
          Rating of supply flexible cord 10 Amps
      Max. short circuit input current  37 Amps


the manual isn't much more info, its more about set up for multiple models, set up and problem solving...that's pretty much it !!

thankx all for your help......


FE 4 ME         :D :D :D


Sorry- Not Happy Jan..... I'm not trying to steal your thread, im just glad you posted it on here, i need the help as well...MIG's are like a world of their own.... even fine tuning looks like is fun in itself

thankx Not Happy Jan for bringing this topic up and the helpful info ive got out of it



so will this be ok for the odd weld here and there ?, maybe weld a patch in here and there, i dont need it for any major Resto work, but would be gr8 to use it for the odd body work here and there......

As Fchoon suggested,  try buy the best welder for your budget.

My first cheap welder led to nothing but disappointment and poor quality work.  It was an SIP110 or similar and it would continually go over temp and cut out and the welds had poor penetration because of the lack of grunt. there is no way it would do anything structural.

Once you have a welder you will find alot more to do than just car jobs.

I fear this little machine  25% at 50A will run out of puff quite easily.

While it will do the odd 1mm sheet maybe 2mm job, it's size will be the main limiting factor and it wont take long to find it's limits.


Cheers

Ed

Not Happy Jan, I believe what a bloke once told me, it sort of rings in my ears and has been good advice for anyone.

He is a funny bloke, a real country fella. He said "well if your asking me whether you should weld with bloody gas or that gasless s##t, you've answered your own bloody question - if you need to ask me that then ya better go gas for sure", but there were more expletives.  :D. What he was saying is that he could weld with anything but someone asking that will need gas  :P

So I suppose what he is saying is that if we feel the need to ask a question like this, perhaps use gas.

What shits me is I have some proper welder mates who dont even care much for getting the setting half right, but they seem to still do a perfect weld and they vary their own speed etc (I suppose this is more true with arc). Before I die I hope to become a fairly capable welder, so by the time im on my 4th FE/FC project, perhaps I will be either senile or a good welder  ;D

My whole car has been done with a Lincoln 180... Best purchase I ever made, and have welded from 1mm to 10mm.  ;D ;D

JB

FE 4 me don't worry about it  ;)
These are the sorts of questions and responses that I was looking for.  Thanks everyone.
Off to but some gas.
Is there a certain quality or type of wire to use. I had a welder patient in the other day and he said that he is using flux wire with gas ??? ??? ???Overkill ???
Did a section with the TIG and actually quite like the finish 8)

(http://s1.postimage.org/11po4c2ro/Picture_019.jpg) ($2)

Can't wait to get into some practice with the MIG. But i'm having some difficulty fabricating the corner window section :( Its hard !!!. Have got a section lined up from EffCEE ;D
I've got to concentrate on the subframe ATM. so i can do the bottom of the sills and line the holes up :P

Cheers Not Happy Jan,

      it's been a learing curve, i think my MIG by the looks of it just might not cut it, but b4 i throw it in the corner, i might just hunt down an old panel that is beyond life and practice and practice some more to see if it can be used b4 i fork out some cash on another MIG....



FE 4 ME

Looks like you've been busy Not Happy Jan, hence the rare response on here, more reading posts and getn the job done by the looks of it ??

thats pic looks like your on the right path...looks like it's coming up nice, clean and filling the holes...

all the best on your resto



"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "    :D :D :D

FE 4 ME

Keep the pics coming....maybe start up a new thread with your Resto in " Project Cars "  ??

keep up the good work, remember ....Practice always makes perfect, even if it takes a few learning warm ups 1st hehehhe !!  ;D ;D ;D



Have Fun anyway Not Happy Jan


FE 4 ME

 :-\ :-\ :-\  oppsss  you already have...i think i will give it a read


cheers

FE 4 ME

Hey There fchoon,
    i was reading Nicks other thread and you mentioned TIG welding..... I'm very experienced with oxy fusion/brazing/welding... but never really used a TIG welder ( i think once or twice when i was at tech like 20 yrs ago )...whats the difference and how's the set up ?

When i was in my early 20's i got my 1st ( and only so far ) FC holden and was keen to cut out and oxy the floor pans, but found that fusion wasn't that easy, ended up bronze welding the panels ( to provide lower heat )...mind you it was like a size 18 or 20 tip....Does Fusion/brazing for car panels creates too much heat ???  would oxy be any good for car repairs ???  Does TIG create similar heat ? Or me being experienced with oxy stick to oxy welding with a small tip on car work ??

what's your thoughts and experience on this, clearly you have plenty of experience and knownledge on all of the above

thankx  fchoon ( again  ;) )


"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "  :D :D :D


FE 4 ME

I love tig and thats pretty much all i use i have a workshop with 9 blokes all use tig everyday and have their own on their bench all  cig 220,s AC/DC,s
3 Kemmppi 250amp water cooled units for them bigger alloy jobs.
 and we have 2 migs in the workshop that get used a couple of times a week.



Tig takes practise and a fair bit of it but anyone that can oxy weld seems to pick it up good.
Most old fellas i teach can do it great but there eyes are stuffed half the time and they wont admit it but they cannot see the weld.

We use high frequency tigs as they start the arc for you.

I have taught a few mates and set them up with tigs to use on panels took a while but so much more control in filling welds ect.

I havent recommended it on here as its not everyones cup of tea and migs can be more versatile for most people.

Thankx fchoon....i oxy and option for car welds or too much heat ??

thankx for your info Mate, i wll check out some TIG machines and maybe do some research online

although oxy needs 2 bottle rentals it's something i can do upside down, backwards and maybe with my eyes close ( only on someone elses car  ;D :P :D ;D..just joken i dont work on anyones car hehehe )

"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "  :D :D :D

FE 4 ME

ppl that can use tige can do some awesome shit with varied materials hey.

Yeah it's a bit like oxy too ive welded lead, copper,brass, steel, alloy ( with careful attention ) just about anything really..havent tried stainless but couldnt see why not... the problem is heat transfer...as ive never used oxy on car panels, this is my question...maybe use a small 6 tip and light flame and weld it like a MIG in small sections at a time to keep the heat down ( and maybe quench each tack as you go..but this i feel will cause more creasing as the metal radically cools down )....maybe use bronze to keep the heat right down but still get good peneration..but would prefer fusion, as its a much better bond and penetration

so i'm hoping someone who has tried or knows about using oxy to weld on car panels or light gauge sheet could shed some light


FE 4 ME   :D :D :D

 I have used oxy for rust repairs for the last 35 years with no problems  I always butt weld number 8 tip is OK but I use my Dillon a lot more these days ...Dolly it up while it's still hot and then you can cool it out with a water rag or a blast of compressed air and move along at 1" to 2"  at a time and repeat as you get better you should be able to file finish a lot of your repairs ....FC427.....

Thankx FC427...i guess it's a lot slower with oxy to quench each 2" run, when i find an old guard to try out my welding skills with MIG i might go out and hire some oxy bottles and see the difference, but thankx for confirming my thoughts that oxy can be done

cheers FC427

FE 4 ME

It's not much slower than mig when you get the hang of it and so much easier to dress up ;D and the weld is soft compared to mig which make  panel beating so much better ......FC427.....

do you just fuse it and use filler rods ( coat hangers hehe ? i gather quencing every 2" stops warping the panel ?

whats the biggest thing to look out for

i'm keen to give them both a go..the only upside to MIG for me is less bottle rental

but oxy im very comfortable with

be keen to know your thoughts FC 427

thankx

FE 4 ME

  ::) ::) ::) geez, and I thought I was slow...   ;)

No not coat hanger it's hi tensile and zinc plated  use wire mild steel filler rod 1.6mm ....FC427....

Jack you are Old and Slow ::) ::) but what an awesome car you drive ....FC427.....

Mark, us old and slow blokes deserve old and fast cars...

(and all the better if the cars look shitloads cooler than we do  ;D)

Old = experienced = wisdom = knownledge = stops at every stop sign wearing a hat !!   ;)


Ols skool rocks...otherwise this forum would be nothing


old skool = FE Holdens

FE 4 ME

WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE DON;T FORGET TO GET SOME FISHOIL,RED/OXIDE OR GAL/PAINT UP BEHIND IT,ESPECIALY ZINC/ANEAL COZ THE BARE METAL RUST'S QUICK.OK.   

What's the stuff you paint on before you weld and it still protects the metal.... ive found it a bit hard to find that gal paint to put on after you do metal welds ( it's kinda mat textured and a grey colour, i see it on nearly every gal fence or metal that has been welded ) but i cant recall it's name as well


any1 got the idea or name of what these are ( or called ) ??


Thankx

FE 4 ME

Camnet weld thru primer.

just bought some at my local auto paint shop.

like this?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/Ed74mnd/Datsun%201200/IMG_3555.jpg)

Cheers

Ed

Thankx Ed,

  You're always full of information... how did you go with the ute trailer ? it was just about done last time i read your thread, might check back...also how did that compressor cover ??

i will check out a Auto paint shop ( find one 1st around here ) maybe do the easy and go to supercheap.. sometimes they pull some good things off

"Have a Great Holden ( FE ) Day !!! "   :D :D :D

FE 4 ME
     

the ute trailer is finished, and the compressor cover works a treat.  nice and quiet now.

Cheers

Ed