FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

57,000 Gen miles, dated June '59. Lots of polishing and cleaning to do!

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That looks great Steve. Hope you squeeze every bit of enjoyment from you car. Whats the metho bottle for?

Regards

Wayne

Thanks Wayne, I am having fun already!  The Metho bottle was to get the engine started without sucking up crap from the tank. One of the next on the list is to flush the tank.

Steve

Nice pick up Steve.
It sure looks nicely protected under those covers.
Looking forward to seeing it post the tidy up.
Regards
Alex

Jumped ship Steve?  Welcome to the dark side...

 :D

Cheers

Ed

Looks like a real good 'un. What's the long term plan? Tidy and drive or strip and rebuild?

Hi Ed, I was a member of the FE FC club before the FB EK Club  :)

In 1983 I dropped a oil feed in a Holden EJ, Saturday night on the freeway. Sunday morning got up with Saturdays Herald still under my arm, went to Stanmore and purchased an (almost identical to this car) FC Standard in Ascot Grey. (I thought it was undercoate)  ::)  :-[ I owned the car for years, then moved from Emu Plains into the city and lost all my storage and all my cars bar and FB and EK. I have never seen another one till now and thrilled I own the car  :) :) :)

Thanks again ED,

Steve

Hi Paul, the family are into original unrestored cars where possible. We only repaint cars (Exterior only) when we have tried everything to save the factory paint.

I am slow cleaning the car inch by inch. The mats under the carpet are near mint :) So too it the seats under the covers. I have taken all those off, will post pics. Then the engine needs a revamp through sitting since 1980. I would say someone has started it without lubing up and hand turning, as it is smokey.

The identical car I sold was pulled down after I sold it and is probly still in pieces  :o  ::)  >:(

Thanks Paul,

Steve

Very nice Steve :) :) :) The Standard FC's look nearly as good as FE's ;D ;D ;D   Dave

I too like FE's, FC's aren't a bad copy  ;D

WoW Awesome!

Thanks NHJ, I will be polishing away over the next week. Try to put some progress pics up.

Steve

How many cars in total does that make Steve??

I think forty  ::) :-[ ::)

Try to catch up to Zulu  ;)

Steve

Good to see this car go to good home.I had a look at it when Kieren picked it up it will be good to see how it cleans up.
cheers Geoff

Thanks so much Geoff. He is a top bloke that Kieran. He has been a great help and friend.

I think there is another Grey FC 215 in Armidale , I saw it years ago at the Stockman's Motel on Marsh. Still remember the plates BED 138. Maybe it was an FE.

Where are you? In Glen Innes?

Steve

Iam   in Inverell . its good to see theres some cars like this still out there

Hey fc2360
I used to work in Inverell back in the 80's. Loved the place amd have some good friends there. Cambo and Zolly to name a few???

This car reminds me of our FE 217 Steve, it also had the interior covered up & hence has survived well.

I look forward to seeing your FC 215 post clean, looks pretty good in the pics.

Cheers, Gary

.. I had an EK before the FE. shhhhh

Almost neighbours :)

I am in Penrith a lot Gary, be great to catch up for a chat. I love the Ambulance, took plenty of Pics at the NRMA Motorfest.

Steve

I won't tell anyone, what colour was it?

Steve

Hey Steve, I lived on Russell Street Emu Plains and you stopped and chatted about my FC with me. Must have been about 1984/5  ::)

I vaguely recall going to your house in Emu - had some FB/EK's in a shed out the back??? One was damaged??

Good to see you've seen the light and got an FC. What a top car you've found. I'm sure there are a few more you are going to dig up around that area.

Hi Craig, I was talking about you to Ret on Saturday :)

I do recall catching up with you a few times. I had three FC's and one FE when I lived on Jamieson Ave, Emu. FC Light Blue / Dark blue flash. FC Green with Cream roof flash and boot. FC standard Ascot Grey and and FE sedan cream with Beige roof.

The smashed EK was my Pink and Plum Flashline. The car had 16,000 Gen miles. I had a rear quarter fitted in 1987.

I missed the FE with the flash that was in the Classic Throttle Shop a year or two back, out of the Bruce Terry Holden Museum. I would have loved that car. I wonder where it went to?

Be great to catch up again Craig.

Steve

Steve I saw your cars at AHD last year and looked out for you but I think we both might have changed a little in the past 25 years  :P

I love the way you lightly restore them rather than going the whole yards. I especially like your preference for the standard model  ;D

I'm sure we'll bump into each other again one day.

Yeah, I was lucky enough to get a look at some of Steve's collection on the weekend. Wow.

I'll let him tell you about them, but I'm still tripping over my tongue *thinking* about some of those vehicles. And I'm not even an aficionado when it comes to FBs and EKs.

Thanks again, Steve.

cheers
RET

You probably walk right past me ;)  Or around me with my middle age spread  :)

Gretting some of the collection to AHD is a fairly simple oporation of three trips from Penrith. Getting fourteen to the Nationals in Naranderra  :o and now eight to Sawtell takes some doing .... and expense  :( :( As I have to truck the extremely low milage and one off cars.

Standards Rule  ;D

Catch up soon, Maybe the Grey Pride run.

Steve

Thanks so much RET, you are welcome anytime!  Next time bring a car over so we can drool. Plus your overalls and we will put you to work   ;D

Thanks for your kind words on the collection. We are thrilled with the new additions. Just shows you, they are still out there in large cupboards.

Steve

Here is what was hiding under the '60's fabric and carpet.

Haven't tried to clean anything yet.

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Chassis! 


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Mmm Orange taillights ....


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Great find Steve.
Yep the old faded tailights, a common problem in those days. I remember my dad having to replace his for Rego 1 year. Any Pics of the EK Prem?
Cheers,
Graham

Hi Graham, I will dig up some pics.

On FB's, the very first nitro car taillights were Orange, then the red came with acrylic cars. The fade on the red taillights are very different. Maybe this is the same for FE-FC's?  Thanks, Steve

Here you go Graham.

As she has sat since 1975 in a shed .......

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After a lot of hand polishing ...............


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Thanks Steve. The paint certainly came up well and looks like an EJ colour. What were the other differences from a special? Where did you find it, and was there only 1 built,how did you find out about it?
Sorry, but i get really interested in this type of car.
Cheers,
Graham

So do I!, Sorry to divert from the thread, but is it a EK 235 on the build tag? It appears to have "Special" badges. I have never seen one in a metallic though.

Keith

I think there were (as usual) 2 suppliers of tail light lenses and they fade differently . Some fade to clear and others fade to orange. For a long time I had an orange lens which I had removed and it was still red around the edges where it was covered by chrome trim.
Through it out a few years ago.

Ken

Graham,

There's a lengthy thread with lots of pics and the car's story on the FB-EK Forum ($2).

cheers
RET

Thanks Ret,
Makes very interesting reading. Where did you find it Steve.
Cheers,
Graham

Have to agree, what a great find Steve, would like to see it when you have time

Gary

Hi Graham, apologies on the delay. Been resting a cold in bed for three of four days :(

Here are the differences for memory from the usual EK Special.

1. Euroa Gold Metallic Paint.

2. Painted (Saturn) Gold Dash top.

3. Painted Gold inner window dividers.

4. Golf Ball Hood Lining.

5. Three chromed clamps on inner top of windscreen ?

6. Power Steering

7. White steering wheel.

8. Radio

9. Heater / Dimister

10. Two speed whipers.

11. Dual Horns.

13. Washer Wipers.

14. Door Arm rests front and rear.

15. Seat Arm rests front and rear.

16. Cloth seats.

17. Carpet.

18. Glovebox light.

19. Boot Light.

20. Chrome door scuff plates.

21. Thumb press dress rims.

22. Power Boosted brakes.

23. EJ style "low coil mount"  side plate

24. EJ "top ledge" radiator.

25. Alloy Rocker cover (was painted metallic Gold with Metallic Green oil cap)

26. Day / Night mirror.

Without being next to the car, can't think of anything else :)

The car was in the centre of Melbourne since 1975 (Near Victoria Markets) That where I picked it up.

Car was registered May 3 1961 for Harlow W Gage, General Manager of Holden with plate GMH-000. The current plates were fitted 15 May 1962.

Steve



 

Very interesting Ken. Having a look at the lights on the FC they do appear darker around the edges. However, in the case of FB's, I have a new lens in the box Orange! All the original low milage Nitro FB's I have seen have had Orange tail lights, unless changes.

Steve

Thanks Ret for the link ....

Steve

You are welcome anytime Gary!

Steve

Steve, do you mean FB's had orange stop / tail light lenses? I am not great on FB EK but I thought they both had red lenses - and the indicator lens was orange.

Ken

Hi Ken, yes, the stop light lenses were amber, not as orange as the indicator lenses. That changed with the switch to Acrylic, like the Gold Lion Horn button.

Have you checked out my list on FB-EK ID plates? we should add our lists together :)

Steve

Awesome find Steve, it has come up really well.
Congratulations,
                      Dean.

Hi, I also have an ascot grey standard FC. Love the look of the 215's as they seem to stand out more than the specials. Mine looks just like yours only with whitewalls and spats. I brought it quite a few years back from this forum so some on here would know of it.

Cheers Rick

up for sale

http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/lot/L956Y513CE8ABD2O

You buy a lotta Gold chains if it gets top$$$$$$ ;D ;D

Ken, I have seen a few very late FC's with Amber Stop Lenses that definately were not faded.  A friend of mine had one in the late 80's early 90's (original low mileage car) that had these fitted.  I have seen an article (I thought it was a 1960 Service Bulletin but it is not in the index in my collection) that discussed the phasing out of the amber lense on the FB and mentioned its introduction in late 59.  Apologies I can't find it, but from what I recall there were changes to Vic legislation that GMH appiled nationally.  THis only lasted a couple of months and the bulletin discussed replacement with red lenses.  Finding amber lenses on early FB's is very rare today because (even today) people change them as they believe they are faded.  Like Steve I have a NOS FB amber lense in the box.  It has the same part number as a later lense, but it is definitely orange and brand new.  :D
It would be worthwhile looking closer ay people's collections of lenses from late FC's and I bet one turns up also  :D

re the orange tail light lenses..... my November 1956 FE (Adelaide build) had orange tail light lenses.  They were definitely not faded and, given my car's history, I know they had never been replaced. They were replaced with red ones when I changed to wide whites and red rims as they better suited the overall look of my car.  :)

The bulletin is H150G from Oct 59 and refers to the change of the clear back up lamp to orange - this coincided with the change to orange indicators - nothing to do with orange brake lights.
I have never seen an orange brake lens other than those that have faded from red. There is no documentation that I have seen supporting their existence and logically I cannot see why GMH would do 2 different colours

Ken

I'm sorry Ken, there may not be any documentation but I know what was on my car from the factory. When my original tail lights were removed both John and I inspected them carefully and there was no evidence to suggest they had faded from red. I have not bothered to enter into discussions about orange brake light lenses before because, in all honesty, it's just not worth it..... I know my car and John knows my car - no-one else does. I'll leave it at that and hope you all have a nice day.  :)

and for what it's worth.... my FE also had a red horn button with a gold shield and lion!  :)

Sorry to hi-jack your thread Steve - hope you're still enjoying your car.

Sure Ken I know where you are coming from and I appreciate that you have a vast experience with FE-FCs.  From my perspective I'll see if I can find the Service Bulletin or similar that I recall (10+ years ago since I last saw it).  I have every Holden SB from H1-G thru to the late 60's, plus all the other non general ones also.

I am 1000% sure that the FB amber lenses exist and are simply not just a faded or faulty lense, and were fitted to all Holdens from Jan to around April 60.  I have owned more than 250 FB-EK's (but only 5 or so early nitro FBs) and these have been my main model of interest over the years, and my thoughts are that if GMH were producing amber lenses in ALL production FB Holdens in Jan 1960, which would include commercials with FE-FC tailights - it is at least PLAUSIBLE that very late 59 FC's had amber lenses also.  However, it could also be naturally that this was implemented (and subsequently rescinded) only on the FB for the short time I have observed.

Interestingly, my sister in law owns a very early nitro FB (bought in '91 from the original owner with 36K miles) fitted with red stop lenses, but a set of amber lenses were in the boot.  When naeively mentioning that the lenses were faded and could be thrown away we were told that these were the lenses the vehicle was fitted with when new and were subsequently changed when the vehicle was almost new.  The only cars I have ever seen with amber lenses fitted have been early nitro vehicles apart from one or two people in the FB-EK scene who have retro fitted them as they are believed to be 'rare' without understanding that their application is incorrect to a post May '60 acrylic FB.

One last thought - It is simply possible in the absence of documentary evidence that these items are just faulty and were produced in Amber by the supplier in the initial batch and then subsequently corrected (which makes sense with the stories I have been told on a few occassions that GMH replaced the lenses with red ones when the cars were serviced)  This would also explain why an amber lense has never been seen on an FC.

My only point is have a really good look at any amber lenses - as you say it is easy to tell if they are faded or not.  unfortunately my mates FC from the early 90s is not known to me anymore otherwise I would do the same and be proven right or wrong once and for all  :-[

Not many FB-EK enthusiast know about the amber lense application.  As stated before many lenses I have were in the rubbish bin practically, and replaced as they were thought to need replacing  :-\

hi there guys its my first post just noticed the pics of steves 215 fc and he said he remembers a similar car in armidale that would be mine,its a 215 fe ascot grey riff red trim very early build no2075.nearing completion after full rotisserie resto,will upload sum pics when i work it out,cheers craig.

After the overwhelming response to the AscotGrey,which seems to have created alot of attention, i have come to realize that my Hair doesn't look that bad after all, Gaz! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D

Hey Gaz ... what are your views on red , amber and clear lenses ??   I have 3 sets and all are different ...red/amber , amber/clear and red/clear ???

Dave .

....But the amber brakelight lenses do look to be faded red ... and I see that Rares only stock red stops , clear reverse and amber indicators ... think I'm with Ken ... why would GMH do amber stops ???  Aren't all brakelights red???

I've just looked at a set and the inner leses have faded to orange, but you can still see some of the red around the edges. I also agree with Ken the only orange ones I've seen are faded red lenses.
Jim

Hey Davo,my van has the red/brake-amber/ind-red/prk and amb/rev,i think this combo is HORN,but each to their own.The clear lense looks a bit bland to me.My lenses are orig and show no signs of fading,you can always tell the orig's they're darker.Ken has once again made a fair comment,as have the others,here's look'n atya Davo :D

I have followed this thread and others on this topic with some interest.

When I purchased Nev he came with faded orange lenses, I still have them. As a car tragic born in the mid 50s I also noticed both orange FE/FC lenses and the "orange" FB lenses. I completely agree with Ken on this.

From my observations in the 60s FE/FCs left in the sun would suffer faded lenses and as these were a rego issue they were replaced with new ones.

As to the alleged "Nitro" FB lenses, the connection between the paint used on the cars and the taillight lenses completely escapes me. With the exception of the 48/215 lenses which were pink when lit ALL Holden taillight lenses were red, at least until VP Commodores when they faded to white fairly quickly.

However,.....I clearly remember the faded FB lenses, they were more opaque than than the later lenses. My recollection is that the early lenses faded rapidly and they were mostly replaced through the sixties, I also remember them being faded nearly to white, just like the FE/FC ones in some cases.

In short unless there is some GMH documentation that states that amber lenses were fitted to FBs as opposed to a change of spec that better resisted fading, I am of the view that early FB lenses were defective.

I cannot remember a single car released in Australia in the late 50s/ early sixties with amber tailights, why would Australia's largest car manufacturer take it upon themselves to do this particularly as amber blinkers had been made compulsory the year before?

Great story though to enhance the mystique of early FB Holdens ;D

John

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Well, how do you explain this  :D
New amber lense in the box, not faded, no red edges (I have 6 of these)
I don't claim to be an expert on FE-FC's, but when it comes to FB-EKs I probably am - have owned 250+ and been into stock FB-EKs for longer than I care to remember.
The only comment I would make to the last post is that I have seen a range of things GMH wise that aren't documented from this era i.e. that aren't in an accelerator magazine, Service Bulletin or Master Parts Manual, but are still 'genuine' - these lenses  are considered to be the real deal when it comes to early FB's from my persepective and others that I know and respect their views.
The reason for my original question was to see if they had also crept back to the late FC but obviously not, cheers
Tim

wow sunny tim 250+ fb/ek's??? Thats amazing i would love to see the photo album

I don't know anything about early FB stuff - so I am quite happy to accept that there were some early cars with orange lenses if evidence says so.  I do not believe there were any FE's or FC's with orange brake lenses.


However I can explain NOS amber lenses in boxes. I worked in the plastics industry for 19 years (before Hoppers Stoppers) and I can tell you that sunlight is not all that changes the colour of plastic. Age does.
Poor quality pigment or poor mixing or wrong ratios of components will cause colour loss with or without sunlight.

Ken