FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hi there everyone,
    im very new to this forum, but not so new in reading your posts....i have recently obtained a gr8 FE 57 holden...has all the bodywork done, motor upgrade was done years ago, HR front end also was done. The car was handed over with body work complete, engine and gearbox in, but bare.
It's now my job to put it all together, the previous owner was all talk about advise and help towards the plans and upgrades he did to it, but he has kinda gone to ground...so long story short i need the experience of FE FC owners to help me get this back on the road.
Here are the things i need to sort out and advised on please.....
There is no brake master or booster in the car, my research says that the VH40 is the most common up grade...but  i have a donor subaru liberty at hand if i need parts ( by chance it's up to be wrecked, wasnt for the FE, but maybe salvage odds parts ) My thoughts with the brakes, was to install the subaru master/booster in 1 on the firewall, install brake pressure limiters to both drums and discs ( using different disc and drum pressure limiters ) would this not be easier to have a brake booster and master all in 1 on the firewall like nearly every late car ? with pressure reducers designed for both drum and disc brakes ?, would this make it easier to adpt most master/boosters to and old car ?

help and advise on this would be sure thankful   ???

also on my to do list is, set the electrics...there is none in the engine bay, has a basic wiring harness kit to be installed, but theres no mention or instruction of both coil set , starter/alt or battery set up...... ive got a basic understanding of the wiring set up..lights, brakes etc are all easy, but coil ( electric dizzy and standard coil ) and engine bay might be a head scratcher here and there...

window wiper set has to be done, thinking what would be best to use to upgrade ( subaru is here remember, but the link up might be a drama ? )

has a Trimatic in it, but thats it, no tail shaft, looks like linkages are there but not installed, have a eh trimatic auto colum to install ( with these linkages )

oh yes and finally for this posting ... as im sure you might be a tad bored reading my book here hehe :P.... the steering rack/arm when it gets to 3/4 lock hits the sump ( not by much but you can see the paint marks from the newly painted sump on the steering arm ) have had advise from dolly it with a piece wood lightly, to leave it as is or grind the small amount off the steering arm to make the clearence ?????

NOTE: this car was rego and approved with the 186 and trimatic in it ( maybe not this motor or auto but the same type, both the motor and auto look like they are new/reco and havent fired up yet )

there are a few of the parts in need and are missing :-

no radiator
no seat bealts
no alternator
no scuff plates
no brake master/booster
accelerator linkage and cables
electrics ( under dash still has wiring harness but not engine bay, although there is a harness on the floor that could go through the firewall for engine bay, havent checked )


just a quick last question, i have a new ignition barrel and key to suit, i thought it was as easy as to press a paper clip into the small spring loaded hole on the ignition and pull the old one out, ive tried with and without a key in the barrel without no success..what am i doing wrong ?????

i have a gregory's/ scientific manual for all early holdens, but it is very vauge and not much help, cant even tell me how much oil the 186 takes..nor could a holden service shop tell me


so im trusting in all your patience and experience to help me understand and get this wonderful classic car on the road...i cant wait

PLEASE HELP ME AS MUCH AS YOU CAN

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME IN READING THIS FULL PAGE PLEAD  !!!! ::)

FE 4 ME

Hi FE 4 ME,

Welcome to the forum, congratulations on your purchase.

OK first things first, Brakes. If you are intending to fit a booster to the firewall, then you will need to make sure that it mounts up and you have sufficient pedal travel when mounted. A lot of forum members use a Gemini booster and a Falcon disc/drum master cylinder but anything can be made to work. Just make sure that the master cylinder diameter is 1 inch. You will need to ensure that you use the disc brake diameter wheel cylinders on the HR rear end.

Ken (mcl1959) is the wizard on brakes. I am sure that he will be able to further elaborate.

Electrics, you could either start with the old harness, a repro harness or a custom basic harness and add to it as you need. There are pros and cons for all. It really depends on what you want to do, ie concealed wiring, daily driver or whatever. I am guessing that the original harness would be on the floor as these were a one piece unit.

In regard to the windscreen wipers the best idea so far (in my opinion) using late model components is Brett F's wiper conversion, which has been posted in a sticky in Modification help. I have included the link to it below.

http://fefcholden.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,18113.0.html ($2)

EH did not have a trimatic column, they were originally a Hydramatic and these have a different shift pattern to the trimatic. Linkages will have to be fabricated, alternatively a gear change cable fitted. You will need to modify the detent to suit and ensure that there is an inhibitor switch fitted so that the car cannot be started in gear, only in park and neutral. You will also need to change the markings on the prindle.

If the steering hits the sump the engine mounts are too low, you will need to cut them off and mount the engine up about half an inch higher to ensure that it clears on full lock. Belting the sump gives you clearance on the steering , but reduces your clearance on the oil pump pick up screen.

The barrell should come out with the key in place, make sure that the paper clip is the closest possible gauge to the diameter of the hole and ensure that it is going in fully. You may have to give the key a good wiggle to release it especially if the key is worn.

In relation to the parts that you require, other members often advertise in the parts for sale, alternatively you could post in the part wanted section and see if your luck's in. Alternatively there's ebay.

HTH

Keith

Thankx Keith for your time and reply, the colum might not be EH, could have been HD i cant remember clearly what model he actually said, i do recall he said he got it cause it was for trimatic, the shift indicator does have 1 2 D N R P  on it, although the plastic has a piece missing, the linkages are to suit

as for the rest of your info i will have to go for a search and make contact with the links and ppl you advised, thankx heaps, i need all the help i can get i guess, otherwise its a bit overwhelming, but like i keep thinking, 1 step at a time, it's all part of the journey and experience to view to the day i sit in it and cruise down the road..that's what keeps me focussed and motivated, but i do have times when i feel im a little lost and on my own trying to work out bolt sizes, what to do here or there.... there are so many bolts missing..well it is kinda bare but has the corner stones and foundations in set, mind you engine mounts to be moved dont sound fun at all :(  maybe i can raise them up some how without re-welding them ??? ???

thankx for your input

FE 4 ME

I'd recommend the first step is to get a correct workshop manual from holden.

Heres a picture of the one you want.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CAR-WORKSHOP-MANUAL-HOLDEN-FE-FC-/330419588601?pt=AU_Clothing_Merchandise_Media&hash=item4cee8acdf9

Cheers
Peter.

What state are you in? I think you would find it beneficial to join a club & have a look at a car that has the mods you want to do.

My car is almost identical to what you are building - 186, Trimatic, later column and Torana mastervac on the firewall.
Re the brakes - the master cylinder must have a 1 inch bore as stated. Torana, Gemini and some Commodore are popular but anything can be used as long as it has the 1 inch diameter and can be mounted suitably.
You will need to get a custom tailshaft done as well.

Ken

Thankx Stapla, we're both on the same page ive had a few of the same book ear marked and purchased one today, i realised when i purchased the scientic mutliple holden repair book that this wasnt really going to help me

cheers for your advise, it has been noted and done !!   ;D

Ken ive heard and have made done some research regarding Gemini masters, sounds like you might be the one who knows more about this than me.... maybe if it's ok sometime grab a few pics of your master piece.....i have made contact with the FE FC car club, the president was very helpful in his advise before i purchased the car, was on his experience i felt more comfortable to buy it....

i do thank you all for your help

I am new to actually working on a FE or FC but have fond memories of a few ive had the pleasure to experience, so it's great to rely or be guided by like minded  well experienced ppl out there

thankx once again...i have a bit of research and homework

 :o

Grrrrr spent a few more hours i didnt think i needed just to try and change the ignition key barrel with no sucess. i dont have the right key ( clearly..why would i change it if i did ?? ), but i thought it was as easy as push the spring loaded pin in the slot next to the key hole, give it a jiggle and done.....but no !!  what am i doing wrong ??? it's a bit scarey, cant even change the key barrel, how am i guna complete my FE kool cruiser...i wont be beatn, but i sure have tried...maybe drill the barrel out or oxy hehehe !! all this just to change the key !!!

whats the trick ???

Ah take the whole lot out thats a nut around the face the the bit with the little slots in it get a rag and some multi,s and undo the nut...

You will see its a nut as it holds the plastic hoo haa that says ignition to the guage cluster...

I have never tried doing the pin thing i just took the whole barrell out..



Dont stress a lot of people have had the same issue.



If you are only missing the keys pull your glove box or door lock out and take to a locksmith easy fixed they mould a key off the barrel..

Cheers, i did take the ignition out of the cluster, to no avail, i'll try and look for that plastic hoo haa and see what comes next round of FE v's MAN

As said, i have taken the ignition switch including barrel out, than tried the right size ( well very tight fit ) blunt end of a small drill bit, also tried 2 different gauge paper clips  both i could feel the inner spring depress  but the barrel would not release ( lubed with WD40 ). Even tried to make a pick/slide out of a hacksaw blade to push the pins down inside the barrel to maybe  ( hope ) it would pick the lock and turn the ignition or release the barrel
i purchased 2 new barrels and keys, when i 1st got them,  just for a thought i tried the keys to see if they fit and 1 after a bit of a jiggle  it did turn the ignition... but now it wont ... if i think back, im pretty sure i tried to release the barrel. But almost everytime time i try ( well 80% ) i have one of the keys in the barrel while i try to release the pin and barrel ( as i notice on the new barrels, when you insert the key it recesses a kind of lock pin back into the barrel ), have also tried without key...got a big fat zero response

but YOU must be able to release the barrel out of the ignition without a key...thats the purpose to replace the barrel..hence no key !!

can the pin be depressed and release the barrel without a key inserted ? is it only as easy as depress the inner pin and the barrel is released ??  i thought..and you know what thought did :) :)  but it was going to be as easy as depress pin and pull


what is the trick  !!!  ???

I cant remember which way it is but you need the key in place and turn and hold to either start or lock with the pin inserted for the barrel to slide out. Im sure it is in the manual. I remember using the spring off a wooden clothes peg for a pin and it was a perfect size and strength.
Gary C

The average punter cant remove the lock without the key in place, a locksmith should be able to do it. I have a swag of keys here, find out the key number from the glovebox lock and with luck I might have one - otherwise a locksmith will make a key to that code and you're done.

Ken

Thankx Ken, but im not sure if the glove box has the original lock, also there are no door locks either nor the key for the glove box either. I was thinking along the lines of installing Solex door locks...if you dont mind Ken i might PM you with a little more details if that's ok ?

your advise and experience is very clear needs to be considered

thank you

Depends on how many bits you are trying to save but sometimes it is possible to undo the outer lock ring and then push the barrel through it.

This can mark both the ring and barrel but if you have no choice, can't be bothered with the locksmith things, and have access to spares, then it can be an option.

Thankx Gary, i was thinking when i was in problem solving mode, Insert paper clip to depress pin and try to start to turn the ignition to "on" ( which hasn't happened yet )while pulling out paperclip to allow the barrel to move to "on" (as the paper clip locks the barrel from turning to on ). And there is another similar sized slot on the barrel close, so i gather as the barrel rotates after depressing the pin and sliding the clip out to allow the barrel to turn, this other hole might line up when turned to "on" to the 1st hole in the igintion housing than maybe when depressed again it might release the barrel...just brain storming here...i guess i cant wait till the FE FC repair manual arrives or pick the experienced brains on here... something so small like replacing the key barrel cant stumps us all ??

thankx every1 for your time and input

your help is taken in and appreciated

You need to think about it - If you could remove the barrel without the keys, then what stops a car thief from removing your lock and stealing your car? ::)

Ken

steering draglink/sump issue could also be that it has HD/HR draglink fitted
if you have a steering collum that has 1 2 D N R P it is not EJ,EH,HD,HR unless it has been modified
i've used many times LC/LJ torana tailshafts they are probably a touch short but i've never had any issues

as for the ignition spend a couple of bucks take it to a locksmith, alot less headaches ;)

You wouldn't be much of a car thief if you had to spend time removing the ignition barrel to steal an FE or FC.  :-\

HeHe i did mention the same concern to one of my mates (wife hehehe ), that if it was that simple than all you need is a spare barrel and key to steal any old holden...maybe its going to take a trip to the locksmith

The manual has no good news for you.
 
1. Disconnect battery ground lead

2. Turn the ignition-starting switch key to the "LOCK" position, then insert a length of suitable guage wire into the small hole in the
    cylinder assembly.

3. Remove cylinder assembly by maintaining a light pressure on the key in a counter clockwise direction while pressing on wire to
    disengage cylinder retainer.

4. With the key fitted to the lock cylinder, install the cylinder to the switch. The key should be held adjacent to the "LOCK" position
    during this operation and a clicking noise should be heard as the retainer snaps into position.

NOTE: The lock cylinder assembly cannot be removed from or installed to the switch unless the key is in position.

  This is word for word from the manual but that doesnot mean that someone has not overcome this in the past 50+ years.
  Hope this helps
  Cheers Stewy.           

FE 4 ME,
I am a locksmith. To remove the barrel you must have a key that turns the lock from lock to on. You then turn the lock all the way to the left (lock position) insert paper clip and depress and then turn further to the left and then pull out. To replace just insert new barrel and turn right with key.
Barrell should have code number stamped onto it if you need to get another key cut.
Regards brett

FE 4 ME,
Forgot to mention. DO NOT GET SOLEX LOCKS. They will give you all sorts of trouble and are not secure. As they protrude from the panels, you can get muliti grips onto the outside and turn them to open the vehicle. You also have to slightly modify the hole which wont allow the holden locks to be firm anymore should you want to go back to original. You can't get a solex lock for the ignition.
Hope this helps
Brett

do what hoon said and get locks all keyed the same with whatever barrel u want using door locks or whatever, u dont want a shit load of keys its annoying. the locksmith will do it in front of you in 2 seconds and you will hate him for it lol  :P