FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

New laws to come into effect at the end of the month.   >:(

MAY have been discussed before?  ???

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/94/help-save-the-future-of-modified-cars-in-nsw

Regards

Looks to be retrospective too  :o

This VSI applies to vehicles modified or presented to an AUVIS after 31 July 2009.

It also seems to indicate that air bag suspensions are OK, but can only move a vehicle in between -50mm and +50mm of the original spec and front and back must not move independently.

Drop spindles are also out as a method of lowering vehicle height.

I reckon you can thank the late model guys for this stuff as it looks like a reaction to the proliferation of massively lowered Civic's and other Japanese cars. Lets hope they are the ones who are targeted.  :-*

This topic has had a fair amount of discusion on the oz rodder forum there are links and suggestion's as to who to contact to lodge you opposition against the said changes .......FC427......

just read on ozrodders although dim at the moment there may be a light at the end of the tunnel

doesnt adding a HR front end drop the front some amount without even lowering, just like 70 seeries radial tyres also would?
does that mean if you have a front end from a HR fitted but on your engineers report it says nothing about being lowered that you can get defected till you get new papers or change back to the king pin drum brake front end?
now there is zero tolerance to go up or down in height even 2mm without a engineers report does that mean everyone on 70 or 65 series radial tyres needs a engineers report if they ever have to re register?
I wonder how much proof micheal daley has to show that the stock height and unmodified suspension and tyres on a FE or FC give safer handling than modified to the point it will reduce our annual road toll.

No matter what happens now the Police will be briefed  to look out for lowered cars and your car is so looooow ::) [ suits your cars looks]  that you will be on the top of the list for attention by the boys in blue... and we will all be getting new engineers reports  stating that we have a lower car that is not more than 50mm lower than factory specifications and forking out again $$$$$$$$  If there is an up side to this is would be those 4 wheel drives that are raised 2 feet up in the air will be off our roads [sorry 4 WD's ]......FC427........

good news for engineers, bad news for aftermarket suspension parts manufacturers.
 bad news car owners who now might need to move to another state to keep legal.
 

What is the factory spec standard height of an FC?

Is this height measured from ground to centre of headlight?

FC Mikey

hope not, especially if they go of the bottom headlights

here is micheal daleys details-
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/Parlment/Members.nsf/c1f0a145443eba46ca256ce000181fd1/f81ed499e90a76a7ca25705700192d10!OpenDocument

ofcourse he is away on holidays till the new law comes in.

we dont only have one lowered car, even my wifes family VP calais is lowered, it was when we bought it 9 years ago, prior to us buying it the car was first a company car then owned by a older guy, we were told it had FEII but it doesnt show up on compliance plate as a option, i was going to let the rego run out and give it some new paint

apparently rta have a database of all the measurements and dimensions here-
http://ols2.rta.nsw.gov.au/rvd/searchRVD.do

Leon if they measure  it from the lowest headlight your in deep shit you might have to fit 30'' tyres to get roadworthy  ::) ::)........FC427.......

Went to the rta rvd search, typed in the details and it said "No data exists for the criteria selected".

Does this mean we can lift'em or drop'em as much as we like? Doh... I'm typing out loud.

FC Mikey

i think they are taking it from the wheel arch to the axle so after finishing my paint and bodywork i now find out the wheel arches need to be radiused.
 these pollies are a pain in the arse, all this is becuase of one fatal accident that involved a 4x4 that was raised.
 how come when the hundreds of people die from bad road conditions they dont ban shit roads.
 conveniently micheal daley is away on a holiday till after his new law comes in.

It still has to get through Parliament before it can be made law  ... Thats the idea of contacting our local members and objecting so they can oppose this on our behalf  so it does not get through Parliament and become law ........FC427.......

as far as i knew its passed and comes in august 1
 apparently although you can still have a lowered car if it was lowered before august 1 insurance companies are saying they wont cover cars with any lowering without a engineers report from august 1 on, that is probably about 200-300 of the cars at the AHD next weekend that will be not covered

Can some one with a standard height FC post the measurement they have from the ground to under the wheel arch front and rear  at its highest point  or might be better under the sill front and rear then we can compair this to see where we low one's stand my FC is 220 mm rear 180mm front, of the  sill Thanks .....FC427......

Fair Dinkum!!

(page 2)

"Driver’s field of vision - Altering a vehicle’s ride height changes the driver’s view of the road. When a
vehicle is raised, the distance to the point the driver can see the ground in front of them is increased.
This results in an increased blind zone immediately in front of the driver where they cannot readily
see other road users, such as pedestrians, cyclists and smaller vehicles. Similarly, blind zones along the
passenger side and rear of the vehicle are also significantly increased."

You would have to be driving a monstertruck !!!!! ???



Weddo

Combine lowering with a seat laid back behind the B pillar and a back the front baseball cap and you've definitely got a problem  ;D

This bit is fair enough, but not in all cases.

Modifying a vehicle’s suspension by raising or lowering it beyond the manufacturer’s specification has the
potential to decrease its safety by compromising its handling and braking performance, affecting safety
features, and by altering the position of impact-absorbing sections.

Like Leon says the lowering of the centre of gravity, especially in an early Holden, greatly improves its road holding and therefore inherent safety.

Funny how they actually agree, by saying


but they forget to say that the reverse (lowering) lowers the centre of gravity and therefore (in their words) its
propensity to overturn  ::) ::)

This too is laughable

Risks to other road users - A vehicle that is out-of-control poses a risk to other road users.

Who says that as soon as you raise or lower a car it automatically gets out of control?

Unexpected vehicle behaviour - A vehicle’s suspension system involves complex relationships
between its components. Modifications to some components can introduce unexpected
consequences in the vehicle, such as introducing body roll induced wheel or axle steer and wheel
angle while turning, all of which could significantly degrade the handling characteristics of the vehicle.

Impact on other components - Modifications to ride height can stress or expose other components,
such as brake hoses or ABS/ESC sensor wires, resulting in their premature failure.

Trajectory of headlights* - Altering a vehicle’s height alters the trajectory of its headlights, which could
cause them to dazzle other road users either by shining directly in their eyes or by reflecting in rear
vision mirrors.

The above is true, and hard to dispute.

I still believe their target is the late model guys, but significantly lowered cars like Leon's could attract attention and therefore be at risk.

Just another example of government knee jerk reaction without consultation.

Remember, these are the same guys who say speed kills while maintaining a road network where 3 foot thick trees grow next to the road in 100km zones. Poor driving kills fellas, along with your gardening practices.

when you see a car like a mercedes benz clk on 20" rims with rubber band tyres sitting 70mm of the ground you know that the car wont handle as well as it should, i know of alot of wedding cars exactly like this, but with a 1950's holden. or a 1930's hotrod i think lower stiffer springs can only be a advantage, i think anyone with a stocker and a modified 48-ej can also confirm it.
 i couldnt even find good shock absorbers in the standard HR front end length but in the HQ length suitable with the lowered springs there is a big range of perfomance shocks.
 I think its plain stupid to apply the law to pre ADR cars, we dont have esp, srs, crumble zones, irs or even panhard rods.
 i cant see how it affects pedestrian safety, being lower not only makes short pedestrians more visible but but reduces chances of pedestrians going under the car instead of over the bonnet in a collision with a pedestrian.
 another thing i dont understand is when they say cars are designed to absorb each others impact and that raising or lowering a car affects it by changing the bumper height.
 that is so weird, look at the bumper on a landcruiser compared to a bumper on a mini compared to a bumper on a mack truck, they arent all that level with each other, its all bullshit.
 

Out of curiosity, I read the new regulation that affects you guys in NSW.  There are a few things that some of you have misinterpreted, and I suggest you go and read it again properly.

For instance, it is not retrospective.  The final clause reads:

and

How do you measure the height?  There are even diagrams to explain this - and none of the instructions or diagrams refer to measuring the headlight height.

and

It has to be passed by parliament:  No it doesn't - it's a standard that is issued by the RTA under existing Road Transport Regulations.  It doesn't need any further approvals.

Read it again fellas.

Martin

It's a draconian law brought in to give police greater powers to defect every car in sight at the local "hoon" hot spots.

I doubt very much the police would defect an Old Holden for the sake of it.

Although having said that, it will be more difficult to rego a new build, but being the resourceful bunch we are I'm sure we will get around it.

The police cannot possibly know when a car was presented to an AUVIS, so the simple solution is to get it passed, then do the suspension mods.

In my opinion, this law encourages builders to modify suspension after inspection, and in some cases this will compromise safety.

I'm planning on bagging a future project, will now need to incorporate adjustable bump stops, some remote valves and a discreet install.

as the current law is written, even my rodeo with wound down torsion bars would fail, and its far from low.

Cheers

Ed

Its retrospective simply because a car that was legally registered six months ago now can't be registered without meeting the new requirements - and for some guys - like me with a 25mm lowered 2007 model car, it means that I can be requested to submit to an AVUS inspection and told to raise the car or submit an engineers certificate. If you add the lower profile tyres then I maybe outside the 50mm maximum and in all sorts of sh*t.

All for a car that it slightly lowered using quality aftermarket springs by a qualified mechanic.

Here's a picture of my illegal car, taken just before it became out-of-control posed a risk to other road users.  >:(
 
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2nggysk.jpg)

What concerns me is that my car could be uninsured because it does not meet these RTA requirements, UNLESS I go and get an engineers report at my cost to prove its 'safe'.

The new law is a reactionary and poorly constructed by-product of the complete dickheads who late model drive cars around on the bump stops and ruin it for everyone else. Thanks  ::)

hmm.... stupid.

maybe they will get rid of the law like they did with the stupid Motorcycle exhaust labelling law they tried a few years back.

from what ive heard they might be dropping the 4wd laws but sticking with the lowering laws since the 4wd groups have been so active against it.

  ;D LOOKS LIKE THE PRESSURE IS OFF FOR THE MOMENT ON IMPLEMENTING THESE NEW LAWS AND WE SLAY LOW FOR NOW  ;D........FC427........                                                                                                                                                                                                   NSW MINISTER FOR ROADS
MICHAEL DALEY MP
NEWS RELEASE
MINISTER AGREES TO FURTHER CONSULTATION ON
CAR MODIFICATION LAWS
Wednesday 29 July 2009

Minister for Roads Michael Daley today met with representatives from the 4WD community and car industry who asked for the introduction of proposed vehicle modification rules to be delayed and for more time to consult.
Mr Daley said he agreed to put the rule changes on hold and that more consultation was needed following the meeting.
“I’ve listened to feedback from the industry and the community, and have agreed to set up a working party to look more closely at how we are going to address this road safety issue,” he said.

“All of those who attended today’s meeting agreed that safety is paramount and that unsafe modifications of vehicles do need be stamped out.
“The working group will include representatives from the NSW Centre for Road Safety, Four Wheel Drive NSW-ACT, Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association, the Australian 4WD Industry Council as well as other agencies and experts,” Mr Daley said.

Executive Director of Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association Stuart Charity said this was a terrific outcome.
“We’re passionate about road safety and we understand the intent of the regulation is to make the roads safer,” he said.
We’re looking forward to working towards a practical solution that meets road safety objectives while also taking industry views into account,” Mr Charity said.

Greg Redfern from Four Wheel Drive NSW-ACT also welcomed the outcome and said the working group would have their full support.
“We want to eliminate unsafe practices in the driving community and we’ll work with the government to make sure these new regulations meet those objectives without any adverse consequences for the motoring community at large,” he said.

“We all agree that there is no place for extreme and illegal modifications, but the clubs in our association follow a strict code of conduct and ethics, and we want to make sure they’re not punished,” Mr Redfern said.
_________________

 ::)

Good to see that common sense has had a win...... for today at least  :-\ :-\ :-\

Interesting blog regarding this issue, written by engineering signatory.
http://you-have-to-be-kidding.blogspot.com/2009/07/car-hoons-news-release.html ($2)
Regards
Alex

If you read the above blog, you would have seen that these regulations have been put on hold.
Help make sure they stay that way by signing up to the petition being compiled by the Oposition Minister, Andrew Stoner MP here:
http://www.nothoons.com.au/ ($2)
Regards
Alex