FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Howdy Folks, this is my first post  :)

As old GM dealers my family has a few old Holdens in storage requiring some love. I have commenced with an FE sedan sold new by us with an original 16,000 miles and books that has been poorly stored for about 20 years.  :'( (not my fault!!) It had paint many years ago which is still in good condition and the interior of course looks and smells like new.

I have almost completed the mechanical tidy up inc manifold gasket, radiator recore, clutch slave cylinder o'haul, brake bleed etc and the machine starts and idles like new. (no carby adjustment was made at all!) Everything works well, I have not even replaced a globe.

The let down however is under the bonnet as the rocker cover, air cleaner and inner guards are requirng attention to due lack of paint/rust. (I have already sand blasted/painted the rims and ordered new tyres). Additionally the chrome, being 52 years old, presents well but has some pitting.

My question is, how far should I go? My gut feeling is to sandblast the rocker cover/air cleaner and paint in the original colours and sand and paint the engine bay with the engine in situ (it has never been apart).
The ancillaries (starter motor, coil, alternator) can all be cleaned up without removing I reckon.

Also, can I obtain another plastic trim the fits along the drivers side of the front seat? The trim exists but has some cracking.

Cheers

Hi oldholden and welcome would love to see a few shots of the old girl 16,000 miles it is just run in you are one lucky person to have that kind of car in your possession A piece of  our motoring history...........FC427..........

If you want paint the engine bay- inner guards and do it properly you may find it easier to completely remove the engine and gearbox as well as the wiring, cutout and all other parts.  Clean it up and spray it.  I think you will find you will get a much better looking finish.  I am in the process of doing the same with an FC.  I couldn't really justify a short cut.  Mine has surface rust on it in places.  For more time and effort and very little extra cost I think it is worth it.

A car like you describe is worth putting some money into to get it back as close to original as possible.  I trust all goes well.

Keith

Hi Oldholden, welcome, the car sounds nice. How about some pics?

I assume from your description the inner guards are black? I had the same problem - the firewall, being body colour was fine but the inner guards and engine were terrible, so I reluctantly did the whole engine bay.

On such a low mileage car I'd be inclined to do the absolute minimum. It is being increasingly recognised that originality and the patina of age are more valuable than shiny paint. As the old saying goes - you can restore them as many times as you like, but they only build 'em once.

Cheers
John

In my opinion i would as John has said do the very minimum to the car at this stage as its low milage etc make it a truly unique vehicle. Please put some pictures up so we can have a look and to try and establish with you the level of work needed but if the car were mine keep it very low key at his stage. The plastic seat sides are available as a quality repro fit from the Vic FE FC CAR Club or from rare spares.
Look forward to some pics
Brett

Welcome to the forum.

As the owner of an unrestored FE I add my vote to you doing the very minimum. My car has blemishes aplenty, but they do not in any way detract from the charm of authenticity.

Now, we are hanging out for some photos, details of the compliance plate and a chance to the car in real life.

Cheers,
David

Welcome to the forum
There is one thing most Aussie males wish their parents owned "A Brewery". But to have a family with a GM dealership and some cars stashed away "Envy" is the work that pops into my head.

Cheers Jim

Oldholden,

When doing conservation, as opposed to restoration, the rule that you want to follow is:

Do as much as is necessary, do as little as possible.

If you keep this in mind, I think that you'll retain the charm of a low mileage original whilst having something safe and attractive to put to (limited) use.


Cheers

Brett

Hi all

okay I have sent a few pics to Alex (thanks pal) so hopefully you'll see them sooner rather than later (if I posted them myself).

Things I have done to date:

removed wheels, sandblasted, painted and fitted five new tyres
removed manifold and fitted new gasket and flange gasket
cleaned and re-packed front wheel bearings
removed brake and clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder and had them renewed
recore radiator
sandblasted and painted rusty rocker cover and air cleaner
fitted new battery
drained 30 year old fuel from tank and lines

car runs beautifully, starts first pop and idles well. Can't wait to get it on the road. Will throw it on the hoist and do grease nipples before I do. Unsure if I should clean the original 50 odd years of grease and dirt from under vehicle but knowing me well think I will. Should look like new underneath.

body and under hood as yet untouched, will get onto that this week. So yes, doing the bare minimum to get it rolling without "restoring". Only painting those items that were rusty. Will polish up chrome and see how it looks. Good fun eh!!

Keep you posted!!

Tom

ps should oil filler cap be holden grey as per motor or black?

Oil filler cap should match fan and breather stick. They were either all grey or all black

Ken

Thanks Ken

I will therefore colour the ambigous coloured fan the same grey and leave the rest original..

Tom

Here are the pics sent to me by Tom.
Looks like a very tidy Standard FE.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE1w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE2w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE3w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE4w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE5w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE6w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE7w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE8w.jpg)
Regards
Alex

Hey Tom
How about sharing the numbers with us.
Regards
Alex

Now that is a sight for sore eyes - what a fabulous car.  So what are the other old holdens in storage????

David

What a great looking old girl, your car is a scarce variety, as Standards generally had a hard life and died early, taxi cabs, businesses & the like.

Or was it because fewer were made? Ken (mcl1959) will know approximate build numbers as opposed to Specials.

Post your numbers from the firewall plate, engine (near distributor) and subframe (near battery) and this may let us know approximate build date.

Your fortunate to have such a nice example, nice interior too.

Good luck with it, regards Gary

Hi oldholden... What a beautiful, original old car. ( I wish it was sitting in my shed) Keep us posted with what you do to it. I wonder how many more old FE's & FC's like yours are still out there hidden in sheds. Like ridgey_didge said earlier, what other old holdens are in storage?

Howdy Guys

Glad you like the FE. As discussed it is one of five old holdens inc a 48, FJ, HT and HK that have not been well loved by the family so I have taken it upon myslef to get my hands dirty. The FE was sold new by us to a local bloke who didn't use it much and returned to us during the 70's. (it still has his handwritten shoppig list amongst the books in the glove box).

My time has been spent on a 1928 Buick Sport Roadster we also sold new with 17,000 miles on it. Lives in my shed and comes our most weekend. Runs like a charm and again, everything works. Those old timer guys are pretty anal about originality so I will head that advice with the FE. I will do the bare minimum and only paint what is required.

The numbers on the FE: Body FE215-5315-A and Eng L416740. (I couldn't find the sun-frame number but will have another look when she's cleaned up. I am focusing on the mechanicals at present and eagerly await the radiator back to get it moving. I'll drive it home a few times (the car lives at work at present) then start on the body in my own time at home. (I am meant to be selling cars during the day but am mostly getting dirty in the back shed!)

So yeah if someone can give me an approximate date of build (dad reckons about '56 as the rear window rubber has the indent for the chrome strip that was deleted in '57).

Hey if you want to see some cool pics of an FC that Dad took around Australia in about 1961 give me an e-mail and I'll forward them. No sealed roads to Alice from Adelaide back then so makes for a good story.

Thanks for your interest, keep you posted!!

Tom G

Tom, its a January 1958 engine, if is original that would indicate build date around that time. I don't know enough about standard production to know if the body and engine nos correspond. Its a lovely car, i'd just give the paint a wash and polish it with non abrasive polish.

I assume you are a Gilbert of John A Gilbert? If so I'm sure there are some stories you could share with us.

If you send your pics to either RET or Custom FC (sorry guys ;D) I'm sure they can get them on here for you.

regards
John

That car is in magnificent condition.  What a starting point!!!


Spinner (wiping the drool off the keyboard) 

Tom,
I like the look of your FE Standard Sedan, great trim.
The colour is similiar to my 1956 Desert Tan Business Model (trim Copper Brown), but the interior trim is red.
On the ID plate my Trim No is 167-488, what is yours (It could be Maize Cream, Frankston Cream, or Lockhart Cream.

Geoff_K

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Geoff_Kl/FEFC_2008_Forum/FE-Business_DesertTan.jpg)

Tom, I really need the chassis number for accurate dating, check the subframe near the battery top. Should be fairly small numbers but a rag with a bit of thinners on it may clean up things sufficiently to read it. What are the other numbers on the ID plate?

Fantastic car - looks like a great project.

Ken

Replying too early to a topic can, at times, can cause foot in mouth problems. When I first replied to this topic I was a bit off track. I will eat humble pie.  When I first read your description of the rust in the engine bay area I was mentally comparing with the surface rust in the engine bay of my car.  Looking at the photos I see that the engine bay appears to be in really good condition and would certainly advise keeping it original and just tidy up any areas that may need minor attention.  Nice to see a good original car with low mileage.  You have a very fine example of this.

Keith

That body number looks like a '56 build, but the chassis number would tell you for certain. You'll find it on the ridge of the passenger's side inner skirt, most likely between the battery and the regulator. The stamped numbers are about 1/4" tall, so not that obvious.

Your Dad is correct, the skinny rear window stainless trim was only on '56 FEs, but it was also only on Specials. Standard models like yours had plain rubber with no adornment.

There are a couple of other visual clues for an early body:

1. There aren't any supports between the top of the rear wheel arch and the rear parcel tray in the boot area. Later bodies had this strengthening.
2. The lip of the swage line of the exterior wheel arch has only a single skin. Later bodies are reinforced here.
3. Early ones were not fitted with the black rain gutter along the LHS between the skirt and guard (to keep moisture off the regulator/battery). This was often fitted later, so the lack of one is of more consequence than having one.
4. Rear early ones (like mine) don't have the -A on the end of the body ID, because FE bodies were only being manufactured at Adelaide initially. Sydney and Melbourne came on line in September, which is when the -A, -S and -M suffixes commenced.

Hope that's some help. Great car you've got there.

cheers
RET

Howdy all

Well I fitted the radiator this arvo and the panel covering it that holds the bonnet catch. After a week it started first pop and idled with no choke. After taking away the stands it was the moment of truth: putting it in gear and driving the old girl for the first time in probably 25 years. And you guessed it, she drives like new.  ;D

No suspension noises, creaks, or groans and spritley acceleration. Even the non-power assisted four wheel drums work well after a master cylinder recond and brake bleed. The whole thing just drives beautifully and way better than I imagined. I haven't even done the grease nipples yet.

Ken, I will attempt to get you a chassis no when I start on the cleaning of the engine bay. As discussed I have painted the rocker cover, air cleaner and a few other parts in poor repair. Only the inner guards now need attention and I think they can be done minimally and done well.

Geoff K, the trim no is 184 673 and the paint is 256 7484. I would be keen to know what that means.

I have sent some more pics to Alex of the car as it stands today after the first drive. It looks very cool with original dust and dirt but deserves a good clean and polish, perticularly the chrome. Sent a few pics of the books and original tool kit made from material that matches the roof lining, very cool.

You will note I have fitted radials with white walls. I know this was not standard but as it won't get driven much it will last better on radials. As for the white walls, I just thought they looked great. I have not fitted the hubcaps yet as they need to come off again when I remove the wheels to clean the chassis and suspension components.

And John, yes John A Gilbert is my brother but there may be others! We are the ex Holden dealers in Mt.Barker, SA, hence the cars. We now sell only new Toyota. Would love to know how you know him (if it's the same one that is).

Will keep you posted of body improvments over the next couple of weeks. Can't believe there are so many car nuts aout there. What a great way to share stuff, my wife doesn't mind it but doesn't really get it (although she's married to a car dealer). You guys just love it. Thanks for your input.

Tom

Go Grey! (motor that is)

Tom, the codes indicate Fall Red interior colour and Shoreline Beige paint colour.

Are there any remains of an old rego sticker on the quarter vent window? This can also help to provide dating details.  Yours is one of only 4 that I know of to still exist in this colour. I have the details of 2 others which have been wrecked.

Regards  Ken

Tom,
Further to Kens advice, the Charcoal Grey top to the dash, black steering column, black steering column to dash bracket, and the Shoreline Beige Colour provides additional weight to the Car being a 1957 build.
Cheers Geoff_K

Hi again

no Ken no rego sticker but looking through the books etc I have an old rego paper! I must admit I hadn't even looked closley at it. It states the year of manufacture as 1958, Reg 322223 (I don't have the oroginal plates but might apply for them). I also have the previous owners Lic, owners manual, Air Chief car radio manual (models RL - RM) , a "Good Houskeeping in your car" booklet from GMH, a Driving Instructions and Manufacturers Warranty four page booklet and two Owners Manuals. I do not have a Service Book as such and wonder if indeed it ever had one. Some on may be able to clarify this.

Anyway I drove the car about 20km home tonight from work and it just hummed the whole way. Sat on around 100km\h and powered up even the steepest hills on the South Eastern Freeway. It was great. I have flushed the cooling system about seven or eight times tonight and it's looking almost up to scratch.

Before hooking up the radiator I put a small piece of stocking in the inlet of the top tank to catch any scale washed through from the block. It worked a treat and caught a cap full of detritus that didn't make its way into the lovely new recored radiator.

Now I can't wait for the morning so I can drive it to work! Tomorrow I will clean the 20 odd years of dirt from the paint ans commence on the chrome on the weekend.

All good

Tom

Hey Tom
Here are the pics.
That rego number is a cool combo, I think you should see if you can get 'em.
Interesting that there is a radio booklet and no radio!
How about a pic of the tools all laid out?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE9w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE10w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE11w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE12w.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/customfc2/Holden/TomFE13w.jpg)
Regards
Alex

Ohhh, and don't forget to share some pics after the ol' girl has her day spa treatment.
Regards
Alex

Tom, I agree with the 1958 year of manufacture, what is the date of payment on the rego paper?  This is the date I was hoping to find on a rego sticker if it existed.  There was no service booklet for the FE or FC model. Some of the bigger dealerships made their own, but most just advised owners when services were due via the sticker on the screen system.

Ken

Ken

Thanks Ken

Thought I might be missing something there but as there is no service book, looks like she's pretty much complete. Drove it home again tonight with some cooling system cleaner and hope after the NEXT draining she may come clean.

Had an initial clean today and with wheels trims on she has turned a few heads. It's clear there are a few more enthusiasts out there.

More pics to follow.


Complements of the day


Tom

Sorry, I forgot to tell you. I am wearing an original GM "Quality Guardian Maintenance Service" GM-H dust coat. I found it as we knocked down our old parts dept. before we rebuild. Its 3/4 length, grey with red stripes down each arm and the oval shaped "Quality Guardian Maintenance Service" oval shaped batch on the pocket. Looks smart, might do a repro...

Tom  :D

How unreal is that. A picture of the dust coat would be nice.

Keith

I have been watching this topic evolve and am very envious of the "old girl" it looks to be a super little vehicle and obviously warrants being kept in its very original form.
You are a very lucky person Tom.
Are you having fun cleaning the chrome, as I notice that it only gleems on the driver side, or are you leaving the passenger side chrome for your wife. ::) ;D

regards
Weddo

Now there's a thought Weddo!!  :D

But unfortunately no. I did a very quick polish on one side when I first rolled it into the workshop to see what it may come up like. I will get to that later. I am just awaiting some door rubbers and things before I commence on the rest of the body clean up process. Now all the hard stuff is done I will just take it home from time to time and finish it off. Might take me a few weeks now as this weekend we have a wedding Sat and you guessed it, Clipsal 500 on Sunday in the Castrol corporate facility. Should be a hoot.

Tom

Hi Tom,
This a great story and like all the others I am envious. Will we see you at the Nats?
Cheers,
Graham

Howdy Graham

no, no Nats for me this year. I did see a beautiful FC ute on the South Eastern Freeway late last week, presumably on the way to the Nats (in Mt.Gambier I believe). Maybe next year.

For those still interested I have done a couple of other jobs recently. I managed to obtain the plastic seat trim from Rare Spares and that's being colour coded as we speak. I took the plunge and ordered door rubbers as they we a bit chewed out along the sill and detratced from the neatness of the car. I have now removed the doors to enable proper fitment of the rubbers.

Something else that was bugging me was the rusty scuff plates so I am having them re-plated along with a few other parts like the bonnet hinges, bonnet hinge springs and bonnet catch.

I promise, I am not going over board and will stop after these items are refitted and I have given the inner guards and battery tray a bit of spray in black. I will then commence with giving the interior and exterior a birthday bringing the old girl back to her former glory.

Just for the record I reckon I flushed the radiator about 22 times before it flushed clean.  ::)

How were the Nats anyway?

Tom

Hi Tom, The Nats are at Mt Gambier at Easter time.Great to hear you are having fun with prettying up the old girl. More pics required when you can. Sorry we won't see you and the FE at the Nats.
Cheers,
Graham

Any new updates on the "freshen up"? ???

Howdy all, apologies for the big delay since my last post. The FE project has been completed. One of the techy's has adjusted the tappets and we will fit a new speedo cable as the last one broke the other day on the way home. As John said earlier, I have done a little as possible so as to conserve the vehicle. It will go back into storage after I have taken a few pics and posted them. Now it is on the road again it will be easy to get it our when the need arises.
I have recently taken the FJ out of (poor) storage and had new tyres and battery fitted. It runs perfectly but needs a mechanical once over inc changing the fluids and a good detail. It will make an appearance in the Bay to Birdwood next month (Sept 08). I will be away unfortunately so one of my enthusiastic sales blokes will be behind the wheel.
Anyway a few pics of the FE to follow.

Cheers

Tom

Some photos of the FJ would be good as well if at all possible
Thanks
Brett