FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

What size bolt do you use on the top seat belt mount the one that goes thru the body.Also how do you fix the bottom of the seat belt on both sides .Im tring to make my ute as they wouldve done in the 60s but still pass engineering of today
regards fatboy

Fatboy
There is a company in WA that supplies all the bolts and backing plates etc. I've recently had my belts restored and all the fittings were supplied.   
Their number is 08 9258 3666. Ask for Graham.

Cheers.....Ken

Fat,

in NSW, use a 7/16" UNF bolt.

The retaining plate must be at least 3mm  thick x 65 x 45 with rounded edges.

You also need a wave washer, spacer etc to allow the belt to swivel plus a nyloc or spring washer under the nut to stop it vibrating loose.

I fixed the belt reels onto a big bit of angle iron and then bolted this through the floor.  it looks pretty 60's to me.

Cheers

Ed

Go to the gov web site and search for ADRs (aust design rules) on seat belts i cant remember the specs but it is all on there

hey ed can you show us how you mounted your seat belts into your wagon front / rear .am now about to tackle it . would be good to see how it was done regards mitch

Just wondering what the rules are there in regard to 3 point shoulder belts? We have a guy in an american car club I am in here with the v8 utes we have and we were going to change our lap belts to 3 point style. This guy looked in the utes and said "Don't do it!"

He said when you look at the older style vehicles, those with bench seats that do not have head rests (or neck supports to use their proper name according to him) you cannot use 3 point belts. "You must use lap belts." If you have an accident, and are using 3 point belts on a car without neck supports, just after impact your 3 point belt will hold you and then your body is then thrown back into its seat. If you are thrown back and there are no neck supports - head rests - you will do serious damage to your neck. Think about it.

If you want to fit 3 point belts you must modify your seats to take properly fitted neck supports. Otherwise, use lap belts as that is the correct design for the old bench style seating.

We kept our lap belts....

Paul.
I would think that the steeringwheel and the non-collapsable steering column would do more damage in an accident.
Regards
Alex

Interesting view point Mark, doesn't make much sense to me.

Remember that all lap belts do is stop you being thrown through the windscreen and sometimes not even that - people have been known to be thrown out of lap belts. How is your neck any better off with no restraint at all? I guess it depends on a choice between a smashed face and whiplash and just whiplash :o

Cheers
John

Precisely. Sorry, Paul, but that advice sounds arse-about-face to me.

Better whiplash than a steering column through the heart, thanks all the same.

As Bill Cosby once said about lap-belts: "the seatbelts aren't for the driver, the seatbelts are so the ambulance crew doesn't have to hunt for the bodies."

RET

Paul,

I'm gunna chime in with the others and say that your friend with the seppo club needs to sit straight so that it dribbles out of both sides of his mouth - evenly.

Let's look at some different scenarios.

1)  No seat belts.  In an accident the occupants of the car are tossed around like rag dolls.  Some might get ejected from the car.  Fairly serious injuries are the result.

2) Lap seat belts.  In an accident, the wearer gets head injuries.  The belt holds a person around the waist, they 'fold' around the seat belt, clout their head with their knees if there is enough room.  If not, they develop a 'headache' from the front seat (if in the back) or the dashboard.  On the return, the wearer will quite likely be flung back so that they get a whiplash injury.  The las seat belt holds the wearer in the car.  The wearer almost always gets abdominal injuries of varying severity from the seat belt. 

3) Lap sash seat belts.  In an accident, the wearer gets bruising across the torso and waist from the seat belt webbing.  On the return, they will get whiplash.  As the torso is restrained by the sash part of the seat belt, the wearer misses out on developing the headaches that the person in scenario two does.  Additionally, as the wearer's upper body is restrained by the seatbelt, they miss out on the varying degrees of abdominal upset that the person in scenario two does.

Paul, let his words go in one ear and out the other.  If you are going to fit seat belts to your FC, go with your original choice of lap sash belts.  I hope that you don't need to use them for their primary purpose, but if you do, you'll be so happy that you fitted them instead of lap belts.

Brett

so... you don't like lap belts Spinner?

if you hit something that hard in one of these old girls you're coming out in a box anyways.

Lap belt = closed casket 

Lap sash = open casket

Either way not a happy ending

Another consideration is the top mount point of a lap/sash belt, if it is below the occupants shoulder you rick spinal compression injuries.

story about seatbelts.
We recently had a vistor from India and thought I would take him for a spin in the wagon.
He sits down into the seat and I explain to him that wearing a seatbelt is compulsory in Australia.  He replied OK and then looked at me blankly.
I turn to start the car and I looked back and he was literally tied up in knots with the seat belt under one arm and behind his head…
After a little giggle I corrected him and explained they were to stop you from moving in the event of an accident.
So the next time he got in we went through the same thing over again.. I was trying very hard not to laugh, but remember this guy had never seen a seat belt before!

So a week later he had gotten used to putting the seat belt on but sometimes just forgot or didn’t care much for it.
After pulling away from the kerb one day I had to enter the flow of traffic quickly.  I gave the throttle a bit of a squeeze and the FE was at full noise in a graceful arc merging with the traffic.. lovely… I was grinning.

I glanced over to see if old Madhu was enjoying himself, but the poor bugger was tied up in his belt and looking decidedly pale, even for an Indian!

.. oops, Im guessing they don’t have many V8’s in India either..

seatbelts are damm good entertainment!

Cheers

Ed

   LMAO there Ed ;D ;D ;D
would have fun to witness..

True story:

In 1965 I was travelling with a mate in his Morris 1100 - no head rests (neck supports).  A car coming the other way swerved onto our side of the road & we hit head on - combined impact speed of probably 60 m.p.h.  I was in the front passenger seat wearing a lap/sash belt.  The force on me hitting the belt twisted and pulled in the B pillar.  I undid the belt and walked away.  No whiplash. The lass in the back (no belt) suffered some injuries as a result of hitting the back of the front seat.

I'll never go without seat belts. 

I have fitted lap/sash belts to my FC - the company that did it used a captive nut on a plate that they fed up the B pillar - no bolt head on the outside.  Stinky has done similarly to his FE.

Martin

when i was a kid the guy down the road fitted a graphic equalizer to his morris 1100, anyway he was coming up the hill and showing his mate the equaliser and he took his eyes of the road and drove straight into a power pole and the front windscreen ended up in someones front yard in one peice but the passenger split his head open, maybe he headbutted the windscreen out.
 i was riding my bike across the road and got to watch the whole thing and be first on the scene to check out these two dissy dudes in there totaled morris, all the pillars were sloping forward and the roof was creased.

it's all ifs buts and maybes
i've seen/heard of minor accidents in late cars with all the safty shit fitted and used and people died
and seen/heard of accidents in older cars with little or no saftey shit and the people walk away
when yor time is up yor time is up, didn't this all start with someone asking a question about mounting seat belts, so it's irrellavent what sort you have or don't have you have to do what some numb nut government pen pusher says to do

Ratbox, That's close to the most unintelligent thing I've ever read. Are you honestly proposing that seat belts are unimportant and can be done without? ???

Ken

Ratbox, Every one is entitled to their own opinion no matter how wrong they are . I was on the Tow Truck 30 years ago when there were still a lot of old cars on the road with minimal safety features and I can tell you as a fact that the occupants of these cars were hurt more seriously than in modern cars ,BELT UP AND LIVE .......FC427........

while it is proven true that seat belts and crumple zones in newer cars have reduced the amount of fatalities and serious injuries in accidents i believe there are some truths to what ratbox has said.
up until a few years ago i was a cameraman then stills photographer with several metro and regional tv stations and newspapers for well over 20 years. as part of out duties we were required to attend and cover fatalities or serious motor accidents sometimes even at the request of emergency services when police scientific units were not availible. in all this time i have seen some prangs were it would appear no-one would ever live only to see the occupants standing on the side of the road in shock but very much alive and others where mulitple occupants have been killed horribly from what looked like a minor accident. it has always been my belief after witnessing this carnage for years that when your number is up thats it, no amount of safety equipment will stop it. thats life.

BUT if you happen to be hit by or hit a car whose driver's number is up then a seat belt will certainly help to reduce the llikelyhood of you joining him.
in the end i guess it is up to the individual and their mentality to wear a belt but for those who dont spare a thought for the fire and ambo officers who have to remove your face from the windscreen and the others it affects.

it only take 5 seconds to put on your belt but years to learn to walk again! (if your lucky)

Fatboy,

Go back to the final paragraph of my previous reply ( #15).  Before you begin drilling holes, talk to some professional motor trimmers/seat belt fitters about concealing the bolts on your ute. It will look much neater, and more original when viewed from outside the vehicle.

Martin

Fast Eddie's wagon build has a few pics of how to install belt bolts.
http://fefcholden.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,5462.20.html
About 2/3 the way down the page.

Hi everyone, just found this forum and have to say that its a great site! I know this topic has been thrashed to death but i just have purchased an 58 FC special sedan that does not have any seatbelts in it. Because i have a 6yo son the law says i have to have seat belts installed in the car.I know i can buy the seatbelts (4 lap/sash ,1 lap)from RARE SPARES in adelaide but have to install them myself.Since the interior has already been painted and retrimed i dont wont to go cutting and welding in the car to install the anchor points.i want to try to keep that original look of the car so have decided to get the old manual adjust belts. is their a way i can conceal the B pillar top bolt so i cant see it from the outside? or do i stick with the bolt going through the pillar and chrome/paint the bolt as they would have done back in the 1950/60s.                                                                                                                                                                         what is the best way to install the rear top anchor point? onto the parcel shelf?or in to the side of the C pillar? if so how is this done? is their a cavity that is accessable where you can get to bolt to tighten up? does any one know of somebody/company around the gawler  (south oz) area that would be able to help me out with some advice? would be greatly appreciated.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cheers  scott. ;D

Difficult to install a hidden B pillar bolt once car is painted. It can be done but you really need to know what you are doing. Go with the drill through option - but you will need to purchase a special barrel bolt assembly for use in door pillars.

The rear belt reel can be mounted on the parcel shelf with a suitably sized backing plate. Usually 50 x 75 with radiused edges and rounded corners is fine.

Ken

Scott if you are in Adelaide.
1. The last time I checked you don't have to fit seatbelts to a car so old, if you choose to do so no inspection is required. It would pay to check with Regency though.
2. You can get belts elsewhere, but Andrew is pretty good with his pricing at Rares.
3. You can get pre-made anchors (plate with a nut welded to it) for a few dollars ($2-3 last time I bought some) each from Willshire Motor Trimmers on South Rd. Saves stuffing around and is legal spec.
4. B Pillar installation.
Using the plates from Willshire I cut a slot just big enough to slide the plate in on the B pillar, the slot needs to be just above the top hinge of the rear door or you will have trouble getting the plate up the pillar. Then drilled two holes further up, one for the bolt to pass through and a smaller one just above to use for a guide wire.
Feed the guide wire (MIG wire works well) down the B pillar to the slot, attach to the plate via hole that you have drilled. Fuss around for anything up to an hour to the plate in position and secure in place with the seatbelt bolt. Remove the guide wire and pop-rivet the plate in place.
I covered the slot with a piece of alloy that I polished up and screwed in with polished stainless screws, you can just see it hiding behind the belt in the pic.
(http://i29.tinypic.com/2ntdc0l.jpg)

As for the rear belts, I put the top mounts on the parcel shelf.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/34sjn8l.jpg)

thanks for the reply.looks like i will stick with the bolt through the B pillar idea.(not really keen on cutting slots in a good interior.)I spoke to RARE SPARES over the phone and they can also supply a fitting kit with the seatbelts which include the anchor backing plates,bolts and barrel bolts.should this be all i would require or would contacting willshire be the better option?                                                                                                                                    yes stinky you are correct about not having to have seatbelts in a car built before 1967.but have been informed by the rego office that if you have a passenger under the age of 15 that you do require the car to have a restraint system,plus it dosent feel safe to drive without seatbelts fitted.  also stinky i noticed you live in this area. i am keen to join a car club do you know if their is one around this area?   cheers scott :D

All your questions answered here - http://www.fefcholden.org.au/sa/index.html

When I fitted lap sash belts to the front of the first Fc I had, I did the b-pllar mounting the same way as sStinky did except that I coated the back of the mounting plate with srtructural body glue (the same stuff that  late model car roofs and panels are glued on with), then tightened the seat belt mount bolt and allowed the glue to dry, it gives you a firm fitting and no need for rivits. I also glued a section of painted metal back on over the slot above the rear hinge so it looke all finished and didn't burn any paint as no welding was needed. The glue is strength rated equivalent to a structural weld.
Cheers
Jockster

A mate of the club here in Canberra has just finished refurbishing an EJ sedan. There are 2 funny dents in the lower dash. The front {original} seat looks funny. He stripped the seat to recover it, the angle of the seat is very close to 90deg. The brace that goes from either side at the bottom is loose on 1 side. I couldn't imagine being in the back & doing that sort of damage to a metal framed seat. The guys in the front would have had very sore knees as well.
Colin.