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Hey guys,
I was looking over my ute the other day and i had the idea of extending the cabin by removing the existing rear wall completley except for the horizontal piece the holds the glass and then weld in a new section further back to meet the lip that is beyond the rear window. The only thing that worried me was any structural importance that may be concerned with that section. ( in brief do i need it to be there) I was also wondering if anyone has done it before and if i would be allowed to do it.

Any help greatly apreciated

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

Micheal if you've seen my chopped EK Ute in the Real Cars section you will understand that if you are looking for leg room with a standard height roof and seat that driving the ute I have none ! Ive looked into doing the same thing when I eventually get back into the rebuild, What I've learned is that if you weld in flat steel sheet it will obviously have to be a much heavier guage for strength ,It can and has been done before especialy to HQs they are every where, I will update with photo's when I get to doing it myself ,could be a while off and maybe you could do the same when you attempt it My advice would be to read up on the modified vehicles code of practice {RTA Website download} And call an engineer to have a chat.

Ok, now my question is if i did attempt something of that sort and reinforced properley would i need an engineer's and if i didn't get one how would they now and what are the possibility of them finding out and then what would happen.

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

If the cop's bust you -Defect,Have to obtain a roadworthy
If the Rego boy's nab you -Have to go and get a roadworthy .
A hell of a lot of vehicle's go through registration with modification's that are not detected ,How many car's do you know of with mini tubb's that have a modified chassis rail ? I know of four that have passed rego in the last ten week's ,But case in point is if they get pulled over one time and the copper has a browse underneath and is not sure of wat he see's its off to the pit's you go for a full roadworthy and a FAIL stamp,your ute is obviously not such a dramatic story but if you were to have an accident maybe even due to someone else's negligence and the Mod is spotted you will be responsible for the bill as you are driving an unregistered vehicle.
(Worse case senario) If a vehicle which is modified and not engineered were to run through a bus stop full of people and knock over a petrol bowser causing a hurrendous fire tomorrow ,It may well mean the end of registering any modified vehicle in the futre let alone the owner of the vehicle's predicament ,I know it all sounds pretty harsh but we all need to look at the bigger picture if our sport is to continue

My opinion:

Do not even think about doing a modification like this without getting it engineered. Tubs are one thing, a casual glance from the outside and they're not that obvious, but an extended cabin is going to stick out like the proverbial dogs bollocks to the constabulary.

An engineer's report will cost you maybe $350. That's like one year's comprehensive insurance. For someone under 25 like yourself, it's probably 6 months worth of insurance. You wouldn't drive around a car that you'd spent god only knows how much on without insuring it, would you? And in that case, why run the risk of having that insurance voided because the car was illegal? It just doesn't make sense.

And while Harko's example does sound a tad extreme, just think about the shock-jocks and what passes for current affairs in this country. Hoons, street-racing etc are buttons they love to push, and they do get the ear of government. Never mind the petrol station, just the bus stop would be enough to send the Alan Jones and Derryn Hinch types into orbit. Apart from the serious situation you personally would be in.

Just my 2c

RET

Thanks for that,

How would i go about getting a price for a check on this mod, and who would i aproach in vic. In regard to a police pulling it up and it sticking out you wont even notice it unless you lift the back tarp and even then you will have to know what the original looked like. It seems reasonable simple, so what is tghe criteria for having to get an engineers

I have also been in contact with the RTA about my 186, still going through their rimourale howver if they do decide that i need an engineers cert at the same time for the motor.

My last question is regarding what is involved in engineers cert. i mean excuse my ignorance but i am only talking of welding a sheet a few inches further back past the existing window. It doesn't reall y seem worth 350 dollars just to scratch around at a few welds.

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

Michael,

Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were talking about stretching the whole cabin into a maxi-cab sort of unit. If I follow you now correctly, you're talking about extra storage behind the seats, with the rear glass unchanged?

In that case then it is not going to be an obvious mod (to get you pulled over). But it still probably requires the certificate to be legal. Check out the regs at the VicRoads site (and I know you know where it is ;D) and see what it says. I'm pretty sure you need to have any structural mods on a monocoque body engineered in Vic., but check it out by all means.

Someone in the Vic club must be able to help you with an engineer. I've only been to one in Sydney, who you could ring, but better to speak to one well versed in Vic regs.

That price of $350 was based on what it costs in Sydney to get a red + floor-shift approved. What you're suggesting may well cost less to approve. Then again, because it's a bit unusual, it might cost more :-/

cheers
RET

Whoa,
i am not that game, i am glad we are now on the same wave length, all i want is some extra area to throw a big which can be secured rather then throwing it in the tray.

I am also having much difficulty with VICROADS who cant get their story straight, everytime i ring it changes! They want to know the reg history of my ute so that i may not have to get an engineer's cert. They put me onto the police force and then they sent me back to Vic roads. right now i am in limbo. I am really trying to get out of getting and eng. cert. What is involved and would the engineer look at both things.

One person also told me from Vicroads that if the car is pre 1969 then you don't need an eng cert. is there anyone who has been through this or could give some good solid advice on the exact requirements.

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

Gotta go with Ken on that one. Smiley stamp for lateral thinking ;D

As far as the VicRoads rep is concerned, the rules on their website are pretty clear. They must have been confused to tell you that you wouldn't need the report for a pre-1969 car. In any case you'll get nowhere fast with them when the time comes to actually register the car with the defence "someone from VicRoads told me I didn't need certification". You'd be lucky to get so much as an apology.

You've piqued my curiosity though. Why are you so adamant about avoiding an engineer's certificate?

Yeah the lockable compartment is a good idea, but i am still going to run with the cut out if i need and engineers cert for the motor. I figure i might as well get both done at the same time. The reason i don't want the engineers is because i don't wanna hand over the cash!

Does anyone know a good engineer in Melbourne, or how do i go about finding one. I mean where do i begin to look, what do i look up? Automotive engineer's? Mechanical engineer's? Consultants what?
I was flicking through the yellow pages but who is qualified to give me one.

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

Yeah thanks for that,
I went to the Local Vicroads office and i was told that i don 't need an egineer's because it is still a six cylinder and the lady was quite adamant about it so now i am thinking i might avoid the engineer if i can. Now all i have to worry about is my alteration's to the cabin. If i get a roadworthy cert. with the alterations then surely there is no way the insurance company can get out of because after all the car is roadworthy. Isn't it?

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

I thought that a change of engine that gave a 10% increase in power was the point where an engineers report was required, and the basics for that included seatbelts, demisters and two speed wipers.
Why not just ask an engineer if the cabin mods require a report, you never know it might not?
I wouldn't trust an insurance co. to accept just a roadworthy as they usually want to know of any modifications and could use that as an excuse to get out of any claim.
I do think that the cabin mod sounds like a good idea!

Hi Michael,
My thoughts would be that by moving the wall you will alter the structural integrity of the body and this will require an engineers cert.
However, if VicRoads register it, you can ask your insurance company to look at the vehicle and approve/not approve the way it is before you get to a point where they might knock back a claim.
cheers,
Leigh

Hey guys,

I just rang an engineer in Melton Sth ( igot his number from VICROADS) I told what mods had been made to the car and what i was planning to do (change of gearbox, seats motor etc, NOT REAR CABIN WALL) and the turkey gave me a price of $800 min poss over 1000 :o :o
Is this right and is their anyone better who is not going to charge me a huge sum of money for a minescule overated amount of work :'( :'(? He said that he would come and have a look once and then he would road test once it was all finished.

REGARDS
MICHAEL
8) 8) 8)

PS: I thought 350 was bad
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Yeah i like that idea leigh, what i am considering know is getting the car registered (well try to they did say that it would pass with the 186 at werribee, but then they may change their story) and then when i go to insure i will get them to asess it like you said. I don't have a thousand dollars for this guy to come out especially if i don't need it. I mean if no-one will insure it then i may have to consider it. Who is the engineer you have used in the past and what did he charge you

REGARDS
Michael
8) 8) 8)

Hi..
I have just got my Fe sedan registered with a 161 red.
I was told if the replacement engine was 15% bigger than standard, you needed an engineers report, which it stupid because from 138 red to 202, the engine swap is exactly the same, but.. i had a 173 and i got 2 speed wipers ready, washers, and demisters and the day before the engineers report i thought, this is silly and bought a 161 and put it in and went straight through the RWC and rego no worry.. My advice is to built up a good quick 138-161 instead of worrying about the engineers report
.
Liam

MMM
Sounds like a possible option, what is the general feeling about the 161 and is there much differeence in power. Are they hard to find and is it worth working it and all that. I was thinking about making the 186 to a 192 with a racing cam as suggested.

REGARDS
Michael

Michael,

If you want to modify a car, there are rules to abide by, if one of those happens to be an engineering cert then you have to get one, no ifs or buts.

with regard to your engine choice...

if 800 bucks for a certificate hurts, then spend 800 dollars more on a 161 build up...ever considered leaving the running gear as is?? It may be less to brag about to your mates, but in the end its more affordable, street legal and quicker to get on the road.

I have a spare Audi 2L slant motor 4 cyl i will happily donate to your project :P

Cheers

Ed
my half a cent...

yeah man,

i'd recommend getting that certificate and take it as an opportunity to do everything you want to do to the ute properly rather than cut corners and then wish you hadn't later.

keep it off the road a bit longer and do things the way you planned. hopefully you'll have the car for many years and it will be worth the trouble in the long run. and you'll be more satisfied driving the car you always wanted.

i had a 161 in my eh ute, and i wouldn't recommend it if you want to do a lot of driving, or carrying loads, or are used to driving with more power. it was ok on the flat but man it sure fell away on those big hills, especially carrying a full load. the 202 in the fc now pulls along real nice. stick with the 186 since its there already.

just an opinion for what its worth. hope you work everything out...

$800 sounds pretty much like the going rate to me for the Melton guy - try Bob Evans in Geelong, he is maybe more resonable.

In the big picture when you consider restoring an FE/FC $800 is one of the smaller numbers u will need to fork out.

Ken

FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Technical Board => Modification Help => Topic started by: Michaels_57 on August 27, 2002, 05:15:13 AM