Thanks Vern,

I will ensure I grab one with a double lip.

Cheers

Making sure the top screw is clear of the water pump…..just saying ??

Thanks - good reminder!

Craig,

I've got one, but don't use it often.  Instead, I use the harmonic balancer as the alignment tool: with the timing cover loose, drive the balancer onto the crank just far enough to engage the seal, then tighten the screws.

Rob

Thanks Rob - that's the method I used before. Keep it simple, stupid!

Hi Team,

Is the timing cover alignment tool something worth making/buying or is it just a nice to have.

I didn't use one on my last grey motor rebuild (in the 80s); but I'm no longer 17 so I'm not doing the rebuild on a shoestring budget under a tarp the driveway.

Cheers

Jolls

Well that is as flash as a rat with a gold tooth!

Just want to say thanks for putting the effort into this. What a great resource!

Hi Rob

Thanks for the update I'll pull it down and develop a plan to tackle it from there.

Cheers
Craig

Hi Team

I have been working hard on the hose reno, just got the new trusses up and resheeted; still got a tarp over one end as I don't have the ridge cap finished. Still a long way to go - so not much preogress on the ute. We did get the Crewman project finished and off the hoist - big job converting a pov pack V6 to an SS including aircon etc but running and ready for rego once we get a new windscreen fitted.

So the ute went upon the hoist for its first real good inspection. A bit of surface rust around the floor repairs; whcih had been done pretty well by the previous owner. From the undersdie I did spot a coupl of pinholes in the front floor; but where it has already been repaired so I expect missed welds but I will have a better look soon. Around the fuel tank does need some work - I haven't asessed it in detail to see if I can patch up the holes or if I will need to cut the two sections out and fabricate something to fix it. Certainly not major rust so pretty happy.

The front end - not so good. Both king pins have play - drivers side worse than passengers. I have a HR front end but I will save that until after I get it re-registered on standard plates. I will need to strip it down to determine what is worn and how badly before making a decision on how to resolve that one.

I trust that the pins themselves are OK and I am looking at new bushes. I note that there was a specific reaming tool for the FC - can only find EH ones on the interweb at the moment. Does anyone have an excess reaming tool that they would be willing topart with; or alternatviely have purchased a suitable modern reamer with guide that they have found works. If so i would love to know the brand/kit to save a heap of research.

Will post some photos soon - off to our local Toyaot dealer to have a chat about a 79 series V8 cruiser in preparation for our big lap!

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

It also looks like the rods need to be ground down so that the chromed mounts can be removed and then the rods re-peened over to reinstall.

That is my understanding of how the mounts are removed. I have it on my list to do.

Cheers
Jolls

Hi Harv,

Gaskets arrived in Murrumbateman today in pristine condition. Thank you for your time, effot and patience.

Cheers n Beers
Craig

Jolls ..My floor jack is a APAC 240 ..Ive had it for 50 years , put seals in 3 times ..use it all the time .It was orange in colour originally when new..Vern ..

I read in some of their advertising that their jacks were built to last a lifeltime! Not like the stuff built now. Having said that I'll have to check the orange trolley jack I have in the shed. I recall it in the garage as a kid and inherited it when my Dad passed. Still going strong.

Well, the fullness of time didn't take long; about 15 minutes in fact.

Mine is an APAC No 17, which apears to have come in both orange and grey and in two styles. The type I have has an enclosed cage hook on the base for moving the jack about.  The model with no cage hook has the access hole rotated 15 degrees to the winding hole. In operation, this would have the effect of capturing the square nut at the end of the winder once the winder is withdrawn enabling withdrawral of the jack from beneath the car by pulling on the handle. 

According to the Clyde-APAC company history https://clydeapac.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Company-Information-Clyde.pdf APAC made jacks for Holden for over 60 years. It also appears from a newspapaer article dated 16 December 1948 (found in the APAC history) that they provided the jacks for the FX. It is highly likely that the jacks without cage hooks are APAC No 17s as APAC were based in SA. In addition to their own jacks they made Lightburn hydraulic jacks both here and in South Africa. In 1954 APAC industries was acquired by Clyde Engineering in NSW and became Clyde APAC. From other articles I found at Ozwrenches https://www.ozwrenches.com/jacks.htm#aussie APAC and Clyde APAC also supplied aftermarket jacks to NASCO. 

Wylie were also based in SA and the Ozwrenches site has linked them as a supplier to Holden as well. On this site they show Wylie scissor jacks; the winding type for FE/FC and the ratcheting type for FB/EK.

This clearly shows the Holden had at least two jack suppliers. It is likely that APAC supplied the early bottle jacks and Wylie provided scissors. Given the APAC No 17 came in two styles I expect that the cage hook would be cheaper to manufacture than the capture mechanism inside the winder gear itself so I'm speculating that the jacks with the cage hook were the later version. I also expect that at some point it was found to be more economical to produce the bottle jack with a turned up tang style cage hook as opposed to the enclosed style on the jack I have. So my best guess is - FX/FJ capture mechanism in the winder, FJ/FE/FC enclosed cage hook, FC/EJ/EH tang style cage hook and then sometime down the track they went to a three stage bottle jack. Purely speculation - maybe the enclosed cage was for some other purpose/vehicle.

I'm not sure what records APAC have from back then but I'll write to them and see if I can't find out some more.

A deep dive into Holden jacks - I never would have thought it.

I've cleaned & repainted these over the years, some came with the cars & some from swap meets

I had always assumed that the type with the bracket were later but could be wrong

Thanks for the advice. The jack I have acquired has remnants of orange, no grey to be seen, and the bracket is different from the two in image you posted. It will get coat of orange paint and a tart up; but I will try to positively identify it in the fullness of time.

May be corrected here but the orange jack as shown above is fx- fj as it has no bracket for lining up.  AL.

Hi Al,

Thanks, if that is the case I lucked in then because the one I picked up has the bracket. I didn't even think to look at that detail.



Haven't got to doing the restoration yet fortunatley. Can anyone provide a definitve answer on the colour (grey or orange) and the lining up bracket none or one?

Restoring it is on the list of things to do; but a fair way down the priority list.   

Thanks Rob,

As you thought the mounts in the ute can be accessed from under the tray floor. I assume the same for the wagon. I'll definitey check mine a bit more closely; they appear OK but I don't want to go to all the effort of restoring her only to have her fail after the first big bump.

I'm interested in the springs as a spare if they are surplus.

Cheers
Craig

Please excuse my ignorance; but does the shock mount problem extend to the utes/wagons?

Cheers
Jolls

Thanks for the tips Vern,

I have everything laid out in order so everything can go back into its original spot if it us re-used. My gut feel is the crank will measure up OK and will just need the bigend journals linished. If we do need to do undersize the crank at any point I will undersize the lot and start from "new".

I'm taking my measurements as initial guidance - the bore wear has me preparing to go oversize so new pistons and will definitely get them to balance before I put it back together. I have been looking at pistons and the range in prices is extraodrinary - $300 on eBay to $1050 for JP from Auto Surplus (Auto Surplus have them cheaper on eBay too). My eperience with JP has been good; however, a $700 saving is something to look at. I have no ideas as to the quality of the eBay slugs.

I'd be interested to hear about the experience of others while I continue to investigate. $700 may be having a lend because it is "old" or the right sum for good quality. I trust there is some wisdom in the forum to help me out. I'd rather learn from wisdom than learn from my mistakes.

Piston diameter measured at the crown is less than across the skirts.  It's best to measure across the skirts, at right angles to the piston pin axis.

I took both - the skirt measurement was 3.055 (still under what it should be - but again verniers are an inaccurate way of measuring. I'm sure I could re-ring it and get some more time out of her but I don't want to have to do it again so will take it in and get it cleaned up and measured up then take it from there. Best case is we hone and linish, new rings and bearigns and crack on. Worst case is about $3K in machining - I'm thinking that we will be somewhere in between!

So had another crack at the B motor after lunch.

The woodruff key took a bit of tapping on the nose to come out but she did. The leading edge is a bit manky now, I could file it but cheap enough to get another and keep this one as a "Justin".
Once that was off dismantling was no problems.
Main bearing journals are good - haven't measured them as I only have a set of digital verniers. Potentially just a linish and new bearing caps required.

Once the cam was out I spashed a bit of rust converter about 5, 6 and 2 and after washing it down gave it a hone. Surprisingly I was able to get 90% of the rust removed, still a bit under the lip of 5 and 6 but I was worried about honing it too much just in case it was salvagable inits current state.

So out with the feeler gauges to measure the compression ring gap top and bottom of the cylinder. Based on Rob's >0.005 in methodolgy in relation to wear, five of the six cylinders fail (only just) - but still a fail.

Top         Bottom         Delta   Delta/3                                                            Acceptable Gauge 1   Gauge 2      Total       Gauge 1    Gauge 2    Total      Delta    Delta/3             ?    0.032        0.014        0.046         0.032         0.014     0.046        0           0               Pass 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032          0        0.032        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032          0        0.032        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032         0        0.032        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.014        0.046         0.03          0            0.03        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032          0            0.032        0.016   0.0053          Fail

More telling is the ring gap is double plus the maximum allowable in the manual. So I guess we know why it was pulled out; she would have been pretty low on compression I expect and probably chewing a bit of oil (which probably explains the crud on the piston crowns)

The piston has no markings on the exterior. Holden is cast vertically on one interior wall and 13 on the other side. It measures up, using verniers, so not very accruate, at 3.04in (.02 in) under standard so I expect that they are the original slugs. They don't appear to have been rattling around in the bore so I need to take some more measurements to see if it is simply a case of worn rings. However, given the bore wear is at the limit I think it would be prudent go oversize. If the cam measures up OK I may get out of it lightly.

Next step is to book her into the machine shop for an assessment and we will go from there.

Rob,

Got it -thanks for the clarification.