FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hi Team,

Been lurking on this site for a long time wating for the righ project to come along. Finally after many years of searching I found this old girl wating to be restored to her former glory.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T0w7g0-KF_1VIOyzHuSuFvSqHmkoUdih/view?usp=drive_link ($2)

She is an honest FC ute with a tiny bit of rust to be repaired at the base of the pillars and around the fuel tank. She came complete with 95% of what is needed to get her back to life including a full rare spares rubber package.
On the parts fron she is only missing a front bar, the spare tyre tailgate lock and the choke cable. However, one of the bumperettes is damaged and I doubt if it can be saved. She also didn't come out with indicators, a radio or a heater so I will look to upgrade her in those areas. The door cards and kickers are shot so will need to replace them and there is no floor coverings. The seat is in good condition but covered in some hideous curtain material so will need recovering at some point.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qaKnkewniVSldXG7T3Y1308Pb99FPBP/view?usp=drive_link ($2)

So after the small rust repairs she will require a lick of paint and a refresh of the grey and the box and she could be back on the road.
I plan to redo the head to have larger ports and 202 valves to match with a set of triples (yet to source) and extractors.

Looking forward to getting this old girl back into work as our "quote ute".

Very tidy looking ute!!

Can't wait to see more pics

Gareth.

It's good to see a new project on here. It sounds like it shouldn't take too much time and effort to get on the road.

I don't know where you are located, but I have a very good rear floor section  in Adelaide, and travelling to Bendigo in early November.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231016/0a395a7826999bf25fd3c219ba1489d6.jpg)It may be what you need to repair around the fuel tank, although if it is only minor, it may be overkill. I also have a bumperette that could be repaired for rechroming. Passenger side.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231016/ad1b83240c8d5e1972c2f1cd9f8ec24b.jpg)

Anyway, good luck and look forward to seeing progress.

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Hi Errol
Thanks - the rust overall is minor so I should be able to TIG/MIG in some plate with no worries. My bumpertte is in similar condition pus a dent. I will see what I can do to get it back into shape and weld up for rechroming and see where we go. Jus tnot sure I'll get the crease out. I will certainly give you a bell if I have no success.
Cheers

Hi All,

I have been doing a lot of research in preparation for the resto and I think for as many questions that I have answered others have popped up.

So for a bit of background I owned a couple fo FC Specials in the 80s. One I sold on, the other hard a worm grey, then a hot red, was the car my wife and I used at out wedding and was unfortunatley written off in an accident around 85. This search for a suitable project car started back in 2017 when I discharged from the Army and ended up here some 6 years later. I have only owned specials so some of the questions I am about to ask are based on a bit of ignorance in relation to standard/commercial vehicles and a lack of information on the web.

My reseach tells me that I am looking at a 59 model and it is likely that the engine supplied with it is the original donk that was fitted.

FC-2106-3116-S                                Vehicle is an FC Utility, the 3,116th manufactured in Sydney, NSW.
352-648                                                The Exterior Trim Code (352) describes this car as Single-Tone: Cape Ivory.
The Interior Trim Code (648) refers to:    Fall Red.
256-2158                                               The paint colour is Cape Ivory (in DUCO Lacquer)
FC-40432-S                                       The vehicle was assembled during 1959, and was the 39,432nd FC (in any bodystyle) assembled in Sydney, NSW.
L560726                                               Manufacture date (based on engine number) is April 1959

What is left of the door card is Fall Red with a grid pattern. I assume that pattern was for the standard vehicles as both of my previous FCs were specials and had the two tone cards with chrome trim. I have not identified anyone advertising door cards in this pattern; although my research hasn't been extensive. If anyone knows of a trimmer doing this style of card it would be appreciated if you could pass me the details.

I have looked over the electricals and have done some limited testing. She seems to be in pretty good order electrically. However, I was surprised to find that there is no indicator switch or flasher can and there is a NASCO blanking plate where the mechanism in the honey pot would normally be. I assume that the standard/commercial vehicles did not have indicators fitted at the factory and mine remained that way. Can anyone confirm this for me?

The dash and part of the interior has stripped of paint and etched primed. In the standards was the entire interior/exterior painted in a single colour or was the top of the dash in black as per the specials?

I don't have any remnants of the roof lining, bar the ribs. However, I do have four visors in poor condition that appear to have the standard white longrain finish. Can someone confirm that that would be correct for a 59 ute and if you have a link/giude to some reference materieal that would be even better.

 I don't have any remnants of the floor covering or the finish behind the seat and up onto the parcel sheld. I assume thas would have beenblack vinyl with a GMH symbol in the centre of the floor where the inspection plate is. Can I buy this style of covering? (I haven't found it in my research so far). Does this continue up behind the set and up onto the parcel shelf or is there a different finish or material.

My last question is parts related - I have working locks in the ignition and glove box. I can't get the passenger door to lock yet but that could be gummed up but I expect that I can get the wafers redone to match. What I don't have is a lock for the spare tyre gate. I nearly fell over backwards when I saw the prices on Fleabay. Is there an aftermarket solution at a reasonable price until I can find something with a price a little more in line with reality?

A lot of questions up front I know - but that should be the big download. From here on in I trust that I can push forward with limited reachback - but great to know this forum exists in times of need.

Cheers

Jolls

My 1960 FB ute had no indicators either. They were optional, standard on Specials. Also have a very early FB van which does have them. You should find the wiring is in place to the rears at least. At some stage well into FC production the flasher setup was changed from blinking the top, brake light, to the combination reverse light at the bottom. Chassis number you quoted is quite a late one I would have thought. Have you read the date codes on the driveline and or glass, assuming original of course?

I think the top of the dash was painted in cinder grey satin as per steering column and on Melbourne cars, the firewall. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Door trim you describe is FC standard and commercial. No arm rests or frivolities like that for goodness sake. Prolly no cigarette lighter either.


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Ah yes, the spare wheel door lock. Made by Lockwood, cast out of pretty thin pot metal and subjected to much use and abuse. They are thin on the ground. I bought a cabinet lock from Bunnings which does the job and fairly inconspicuous. Just needed to enlarge the escutcheon hole in the door, if you know what I mean. No pendulum cover, and sits proud a bit. Keep your eye out for an original one at not more than say $120. You’re pretty lucky if the door itself is good.


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Obsolete Rubber Mats in Melbourne. Martin Figo is an enthusiast and supplies better than original reproduction rubber mats which really set off a restored interior. I can’t think why anyone would put carpet in an old Holden, although I did it myself in my foolish youth.

The mat only goes far enough to disappear under the fully extended front seat. There are seperate short pieces for between seat and sill, with no further trimming I don’t believe, other than the parcel tray. The ute seats were trimmed just over the rear top bolster, with a sort of cape that snugs in under the rear window with the aid of a wire bow in the edge, similar to a hood bow. This is long enough to be just fully extended when the seat is fully forward, and when the seat is in the rearmost position it folds down in the crevice between the back of the seat and the cargo wall.

Someone will pipe up soon regarding the interior trim. I recall Glen Stankervis had a roll of head lining but may have been green. SMS fabrics in USA have most stuff, being Chevrolet derived however can be a pain to deal with. Winners have a limited range of reproduction seat and other trim, but ouch on the wallet.


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Hi Errol,

Thanks so much for the info. It is gold and sets me up for success - I'll look into it all as I progress.

I have the cape on the back of the seat, I assumed it tied into whatever was at the back fo the seat - but now you describe that it ties in with the window the wierd looking roof bow I have makes sense. I trust that I can simply have the curtain material replaced with a "Fall Red" vinyl.

You are 100% correct in the cigarette lighter department as well!

Not sure how original I want to go yet - I have found some after market door cards for specials with arm rests that may just cut the mustard.

Thanks for the lead on the floor covering - wasn't going to go carpet it is a ute afterall - having said that my VY SS has carpet - more of a poser than a real ute!

Well that's right, carpet is for commodores.

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Sorry to hi-jack the thread.
 Errol could you please contact me re:rear tank section.
Philwreck.   0416081109.

Done

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Hi Team

I have gone through the wiring and I definitely don't have any of the optional fittings. I do want to add reversing lights and indicatos for practicality.

It is my understanding that the reverse light switch is the same through to HR. Can anyone tell me if the mounting brackets are the same too or if I need on specific to an FE/FC?

Cheers

Craig

All the same, probably even up to HK crash box edition.

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Thanks mate.

You won't have wiring all the way through to the taillight and park lamps, but the loom in the car should have the wires ready to attach to. You'll need to change the globe holders in the park lamps to twin filament like a Special has, but there's no obvious external alterations required. (Unlike an FE, which has the parkers in the headlamps like an old VW, and so the blinker bodies just aren't there at all on Standards and commercials).

Your ute predates the introduction of orange rear lenses for the indicators, so what wiring there is would be configured for the flashing brake lights. You will need to run more wires through the body and tray if you plan on using the lower part of the taillight for indicators. Rares may have the lenses in clear or orange, or you can use orange globes behind the clear lenses.

If you don't have the FC Workshop Manual, you should get yourself one. (The original Holden one, not the Gregorys type). It will pay for itself many times over. It has wiring diagrams, and much other useful info.

cheers RET

Thanks RET.

I have both the Gregorys and the Holen manuals from when I owned my previous FCs in the 80s. Thanks for the head up on the wiring. I will probably set up the rear lenses in white for reversing lights and wire them through to the location of the reverse switch. I expect I don't need it to get rego as it never came out with them and will install the switch when I find one.

Cheer n Beers
Craig

Sometimes it is better and easier to comply with current expectations in my opinion. The youngsters at the rego check often don’t get concept that there were ever cars without indicators. That also applies to the red light indicator option. As RET says using a yellow globe  it the white lens is a good solution.

As to the reverse lights they certainly won’t care. They’re nice to have, not that they are much use.


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Good point, something I will need to think about some more - also saves me ahving to find the reverse light switch!

I'll weigh in here.

What Clay says about expectations.  I reckon it's best to wire up your taillights like a late '59 FC or FB/EK ute, with orange lenses for the indicators.  The FB and EK workshop manuals have the correct wiring diagram.

In short:

Black wire - taillights, number plate lamp
Violet wire - RH rear indicator
Pink wire - LH rear indicator
Yellow wire - brake lights

B.t.w., I've repaired the indicator switch, but if you can find someone who's got the stalk as well as the switch, better.

Oh, and - you'll have to run all the extra wiring for the indicator flasher, the dash tell-tale lights, and the front indicators.  At this point it might be easier to get in touch with Vintage Wiring Harnesses and order a main wiring harness for an FC Special.

Do your front parking lights have a blue and white wire each?

Rob

I have just finished wire my reverse lights, indicators and park lights on my FC ute. I left all the clear/white lenses in and used switch back led globes, indicators flash orange and reverse and park lights are white light. I did have to put a different flasher can that senses the load from the LEDs

Same with my '58 Special Sedan ..Flashing rear brake light as turn indicator ...modern day drivers and or people who arent into cars think your lights are faulty  ..I didn't want some one overtaking me whilst turning cause the didn't see my brake light flashing  ..as the others have covered here , my clear lenses are period correct , so extra pair of globe holders ,extra wires as per FB wiring , also covered elsewhere here , and LED amber globes front and back , new flasher canister to suit ..my intention to turn is very clear ..dont have blokes hanging out window yelling " should a got a sparky mate !!! Or as one lady said during resto " why dont the blinkers work , They are !!! cant you see the red brake light is blinking ? NO ! why did you do that ? Thats the blinker lense there isn't it ? Drivers cant make decisions about what they cant see ,That is the message I get from that ,Its a real safety issue for me ,and obviously Holden were intending to get around to it ...

I think you have won me over, although I really loved the red indicatos in my previous FCs; not that I ever saw tham other than when I was testing them. Definitey white lenses with orange globe/LED. Means I can ditch the search for the reversing light switch. Tick one more off the list.

It has been slow and steady so far - checking out the electricial side of the hose in the evenings and working hard on collecting the parts I need to finish her off. So far I have collected/repaired:

• a set of triple 1 1/2in SUs;
• a matching set of period headers - came with the SUs
• identified a heater (to be picked up next time I am in Sydney - thank you John
• repaired the dash dimmer in the light switch
• cleaned and repaired the idiot lights
• taken photos to the local signmaker to get new markings for the idiot lights and fuel gauge
• started the repair of the tailgate badge using CASWELDs pot metal solder
• commenced "unseizing" the clutch and brake master cylinders
• sanded back the repairs of the steering wheel by the previous owner (he used bog; not sure how it will last. I have previously used araldite - thoughts on the best approach?)
• assessed parts for repair/rechrome/spare/replace

I have yet to resolve the fuel gauge issue - will have a play with moving the coils to see if I can get a result. Otherwise I  will have to search for a replacement.

I have decided that I will replace the front end with a HR disc brake setup for safety purposes - but not in the immediate term. It can be a slow burn so I can try and get her back on the road ASAP. Given I am also in the midst of renovating a house that isn't very fast. ;D

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Just re-read your post - indicators and revers lights. Smart and got it. The reverse switch is back on the table! DAmn - thought I was making a little progress haha

Remind me - what's the problem with the fuel gauge?

Rob

Hi Ardiesse

I pulled, inspected and cleaned the fuel gauge. It was full of wasp mud.

Wiring and coils look good and the paint over the screws holding the coils is intact.

The needle can make a full sweep so there is no impediment to movement. When power is applied at 0 ohms the needle instantly responds to where the E symbol would be, but as the resistance is increased the needle moves below the E until I get to 150 ohms where there is no needle deflection (up against a hard stop). So instead of the needle moving from empty to full it continues to move left as I step up the resistance. I switched the resistance to the power and ground side of the gauge as well with no discernable change. As the gauge moved in the wrong direction as the resistance increased I also changed the polarity to see if I had that incorrect and there was no discernable change in the system.

The circuit across the coils is complete and has a 54 ohm resistance. I can tell from the plier marks on the chrome trim that the gauge has been apart before. The needle also looks as though it has been "aligned" previously. I have it doing a reasonable sweep now and pointing in pretty much the right direction under the influence of gravity. I have identified the two screws that hold the coils in place and I am contemplating adjusting them to promote movement in the gauge.

This is as far as I have progressed in the fault finding/diagnosis.

Cheers

Craig

Craig,

In normal operation, a short to ground at the sender terminal makes the gauge read E, and 30 ohms between sender terminal and ground makes the gauge read F.

The gauge has two coils inside - one connected between BAT and sender terminals, and one between sender and ground (the gauge's case).  So you need to make two resistance measurements - one between BAT and sender, and another between sender and the case, with the BAT terminal unconnected.

I reckon that the "shunt" coil in your fuel gauge is open-circuit.  When you short the sender terminal to ground, enough current flows through the "series" coil to lift the needle off the stop and point to "E", but as you increase the resistance, the current decreases to the point where the needle can't lift off the stop.

There's no point in trying to repair the gauge.  Get another.  But you may need to test several before you find a good one.  The insulation in the coils degrades over time, and leads to unsteady readings.  Go to Jaycar and get a 15-ohm wire-wound resistor.  Connect between sender and ground.  Power the gauge up.  It should read half-full, and the needle shouldn't wander.

Rob

Thanks Rob,

That makes sense. I'll have a squiz at it tomorrow and pull it apart for a bit of experiential learning.

Oh well, add another part to the puchase list.

Cheers

Craig

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the heads up. Sorry I  missed your post when it came in. I was able to locate an indicator switch with the stalk in reasonable condition. Thank you very much for the offer and following up. I also purchased a reverse light switch so my plan is to run the woring as you have indicated to a dual LED setup, one white one orange. I'm not sure how I will do that yet, may have to make a bespoke "globe". I can then use a modern can hidden away up under the dash. I will also use and orange/white combo in front parkers. Shouldn't be too hard to pull off.
Cheers
Craig

Hi fellow FC nuts,

 think I am top of most of the electrcial for now. Time to move onto the next problem set.

I have a set of old style triple SUs and am wondering about the best setup to operate them from and accelerator perspective. In my head I have a plan to use the standard accelerator setup and rig up a cable from the lever on the firewall to a lever setup on the SUs. I assume this has been done plenty of times before so before I go trying to reinvent the wheel can I lean on the forum for a bit of wisdom? Perhaps some photos of how this has been achieved before?

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Craig,

Triple SUs are by no means a "bolt-on" setup.  At the least you have to remove the battery tray and relocate the battery; and also make substantial modifications to the firewall.  If you don't already have an account on FB-EK, now's the time.  Clay and Brett both have put triples on their utes (OK, so on red motors, but the principles are the same), and somebody on FB-EK has a thread showing how to connect a throttle cable to the standard accelerator pedal.

Oh, and "scope-creep".  You have been warned.

Rob

I run HZ 6cyl cable running off the lever out the floor on the pedal. Easy conversion. Just a matter of extending the lever with a mount to suit the HZ cable.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231030/17878b38bd046f6093aa1b5df942d067.jpg)The outer bracket slips conveniently under the brake distribution block, and some adjustment can be obtained by sliding it forward and back to obtain wide open throttle.

As Rob says, I'm running 1 3/4" SUs on a 179, using a Warnerford Design manifold, which I believe was intended to be a bolt in fit to EH.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231030/15280ce09d5c04633f7532342a61b27f.jpg)You can see it brings the rear carb forward, and I used all forward mounted float bowls.

Only modification to my firewall was a slight indent where the body tag was originally, for the rear filter, and I relocated the tag up higher. This is a late FB, not FC though.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231030/4a27a627e189432902b832135bda9caa.jpg)

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Thanks Errol and Rob

I'm not sure if I will need to do too much modification with the setup I have. The SUs are set up on three manifolds and just a stub on the intake to put a sock over. If I can work out how to post a photo on this site I will do so.

Cheers

Craig

I see where that mudguard washer I lost went now…


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Image Uoploading:

https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=5613.msg31835#msg31835

Rob

Thanks, appreciate the guidance. Will get some photos tomorow.

Cheers

Hi All,

This is the SU setup I will be installing. Was supposedly fitted to an FC previously. I also expect that the fuel line had a return to the tank to prevent flooding. I expect I will need to shorten and cut the return line to make it fit.

Choke is setup on the centre carb but no throttle linkage, or evidence of one, to be found.


(https://i.postimg.cc/TKHfvsDK/Jolls-Triple-SUs.jpg) ($2)

Headers/extractors I plan to use:


(https://i.postimg.cc/dkWNfbX1/Headers.jpg) ($2)

The brake and clutch master cylinders and reservoirs were on my list to do today.

I was able to remove the pistons and they and the bores look to be in reasonable condition. May only require a hone. I was not so lucky with the tin reservoirs. I don't think either of them are re-usable.

You can get the full story here: https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=28497.msg180213#msg180213 ($2)

I played around with the fuel gauge too. I have continuity across the coils so I have to imagine that the coating across the coil windins has failed on one of the coild and there is a or number of short circuits. I'll see what I can track down to replace this bit.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

I hve decided to take the low road and make life easier on those driving around me and go to orange LED indicators front and back and white parkers/reverse lights. I will modify the wiring to suit and incorporate and LED rated flasher can. That should be pretty straight forward to do.  I ordered four of these on eBay so just need to find a base to suit and modify it to fit into the bulb wells of the front and rear indicators/parkers.

(https://i.postimg.cc/87Qt2bwR/Amber-White-LED.jpg) ($2)

When you did your conversion did you run into any problems? What base did you use? Did you have to modify it to fit?

Cheers n Beers
Craig

I used rare spares brake light light globe holders, front an rear. Only problem I had was getting orange/ white led globes that were short enough not to touch the lense on the rear.  Apart from that they are real cool especially the front as they are a very bright white so can be seen in the daytime and when the indicators goes of or on the white light kind of dims down then up and really easy to see. Also a decent light to reverse with which sheds a fair amount of light.

Thanks Mate,

Appreciate the feedback - good to know that I'm on the right track. I will wait until the globes arrive and trust that I have selected the right ones. The bulb is 26mm deep with a 20mm cap - similar to a brake/tail light bulb so I expect it will fit. I think they are literally on a slow boat from Chine as delivery is not expected before Dec 13. The holders from Rare Spares are on the buy list (which is getting longer by the day). I am keen to have pretty much everything in place when I really crack into it so I can get a good run.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

The parts list for the build is starting to decrease.  I just purchased up a complete HR front end with proportioning valve,  2 inch lowered springs, 2 inch lowering blocks and two new HR rims. They have been sandblasted and undercoated already.

So - now that I have the disc brake front end is the booster a mandatory requirement or something I can get to down the track?

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

With the stock master you really need a booster Craig. I'm not sure you want a proportioning valve. The standard HR setup is single circuit master to VH40 booster to discs front and smaller compatible wheel cylinders rear, which means changing rea housing and brakes to EJ HR.

Option 1 is HK HZ or other 1" dual circuit master, boost front circuit only using VH40 or smaller VH44 and retin stock rear unboosted on separate circuit.

Option 2 firewall mounted booster and dual circuit master with rear proportioning valve. Then you have to one the clutch master or else modify bonnet hinge.

Another option I have seen is smaller diameter master unboosted.

Easiest option with the grey is probably just swap the rear axle and brakes.

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I warned you about scope-creep . . .

The moment you change to an HR front suspension, you'll need to have an engineer certify the installation.  And I think dual circuit brakes become mandatory, and a collapsible steering column, and two-speed electric wipers, and a heater/demister.  It's not as easy now as it was in (say) the '80s.

Rob

Haha,
I recall the warning - I didn't think that through too far - I can always sell it.
Last time I did this was in the very early 80s and I started by adding the HR front and rear end. Then I cut out and replaced the tunnel and added a 4 speed box a little later When the grey died I simply welded in some engine mounts threw in a 202 and took it down to the RTA? and had it inspected. The only inspection it had in its time was after the engine change and it had a few rego inspections in between.

I guess I am a little naive;  adding disc brakes is a bolt on safety upgrade. I did not expect the engineering etc unless I added a bigger donk. Then I expected all the additions plus seat belts.

The fella I purchased this off was running around with just the proportioning valve; that is what prompted my intial question. I know last time I did this I used a booster. In my mind I had thought through a plan of stock booster to VH44 to a proportioning valve to the brake setup using FC rear and HR front. Pretty sure that is the setup I had in the 80s. I guess if I have to change the diff as well I could go EH/ HR or LC/LJ and use the VH40 to keep it as close to original as I can.  I have just sourced the missing clutch parts, thanks to Clay, to keep it looking original in that area.

I will have a think about how I stage this - and if I want the PITA of having to do so. I can always add some paint and sell it - got it for a very good price.

Good old SA, we don't need no injuneering here. Bureaucratic bullshit imo. As long as it is done to a "professional" standard, it is the only requirement here.

I would be tempted to flaunt the silly law if I could get away with it, meaning both bureaucratically and insurance wise, of course.

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I've dug through my brake drawer, and I can supply you a brake master with a matching reservoir. I have a matching PBR one, which is a disc brake one supplied by Power Brakes SA, or I should have a drum brake one, which may be slightly crustier. Either way, I can give you two matching usable masters with matching early plastic reservoirs.


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Craig,

Your experience is exactly like mine.  I put HR front discs and rear axle, with VH40 booster, into the ex-family EK.  Come pink slip time, my father was full of gloomy prognostications.  The mechanic who inspected it did a brake test in the servo's forecourt, stood the car on its nose, got out, looked underneath and recognised the HR front suspension, wrote the ticket out and said, "best old Holden brakes I've ever had".

Rob

Hi Errol62

Firstly thank you so much for the parts offer. I am all over it like whire on rice. I have been mulling over the options all afternoon. I'm going to run with the HR front end so the disc brake booster would be gold. I have been thinking about how to do this with a minimum of effort while maintaining "period originality". I am already throwing triple SUs and extractors on her and will have the cam reground, the head done and the bottom end refreshed and balanced and the flywheeel lightened. So the investment in being able to stop is pretty important.

I have thought through several options and am thinking about keeping the FC rear end but sleeving the cylinders down the the same as HR. Do you think that is achievable? Do you think istoo much effort and simply changing to HR/LJ drum to drum would be more cost effective?

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Sounds like an LC LJ diff would suit you. EJ to HR backing plates and drums and run zero offset magnums. Or EJ HR with custom offset. You will be lengthening the diff ratio unless you’re planning for the strip. Later brakes are wider and also less fiddly than early. Best of all there is ready and affordable parts availability. The same can’t be said for the early brakes.


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Sent you a pm confirming what to send you Craig. Your brake thread seems to be corrupted.


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Nothing received - checked messages and email. Will keep an eye out and respond ASAP.

Cheers
Craig

Hi Team,

Another piece of the puzzle has sort of fallen into place. I have been given an aftermarket VH44 booster so now I need to work out if/how I use this as it looks the goods. However. it is not the VH40 that came out the the HR - that would make life easy. I am mulling options over. I'm not sure all of them are acceptable; but, I'm pretty sure that they are workable:

• use the VH44 as a means to trade up to VH40 and run a full HR setup
• run the VH44 and boost the discs only - use the existing FC rears unboosted
• run the VH44 and boost the the lot - use the proportioning valve with the existing FC brakes

I'm keen to keep the FC rear end if I can - not wedded tothe idea though. If it neds to change - so be it.

These reservoirs ok Craig?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231104/71f7812eeb8bdbcc8e4c9198be9e24d3.jpg)
I’ve been running stock HR setup with VH44. It’s not too bad until there is a load on board. I’m about to change to VH40, because I’ve got one on the shelf, and I’m sticking with stock single circuit master. Well for now anyway……


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Thanks for the guidance. The old girl won't be carrying a load at all - maybe a bag or two and a few beers in an esky at most. I think I'll be fine with just the pair of us up front.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Short update:

Last week - picked up a HR disc front end out of an FC complete with two rims that clear the calipers. Has been sand blasted and is in undercoat - will pull it down and get it ready to go in down the track. I have made a decision to get her on full NSW rego with the standard front end and then change over to the HR down the track. I don't want the short term hassle of dealing with engineering etc. HR front end has aftermarket springs lowered 2 inches, 2 inch lowering blocks and a proportioning valve. Old mate was running this setup on his FC off a VH44 and standard rear end with no issues (so he says). I will set it up the same and see how it goes - pretty sure that is the same setup I had on my Special in the 80s too.

Thanks to some members here I have picked up a spare generator (Lucas) and starter motor, a complete clutch and brake master cylinder set and some spare brushes for the Bosch generator.
The Bosh generator has had an overhaul (less the sealed bearing which is on order). The Bosch regulato has been checked and gets the thumbs up. The generator runs well as a motor so I expect we are in pretty good shape to generate power.

The motor turns over with the starter motor and feels pretty good. When I picked her up she had a reconditioners tag on her showing 100psi in each cylinder. I will build a test stand soon and get her running to what condition she is in.

Checked the front end - pretty loose - not sure if it is bearings or king pins. More work required there - I trust I just need to regrease and tighten things up to get her back up and on the road. Haven't got to the wheel cylinders yet - but full overhaul required. Will get onto the cylinders ASAP and get them cleaned up and will put them back together close to the end so they're not sitting around unused just wating to sieze up again.

SUs have been to a carby expert for a health check - in good shape and will get an ultrasonic bath over Christmas in exchange for a few beers and my company. (A mate that lives on a property around the corner runs a carby refurb business!)

Picked up a standard front bar - small dent and some flaking chrome but good enough to get me up and running. Hammered the dent out this afternoon - she should be fine for rechroming. Bashed out the dent and tear in one bumberette. Can't get it quite matched up so off to a mate of Son #2 to see if they can sort it in their shop. Once welded I trust we can get her rechromed and back on the old girl.

Sourced and AC bypass filter - I know but every little bit helps - and I reckon they look the coolest of the three options.

I have sourced orange and white LEDs for the reverse lights/indicators and parkers/indicators. Just need to order the correct bases from Rares. To go withh that we sourced a reverse switch and and indicator switch with stalk. Now have to find a base and LED rated can to make it all work.

On a whim we sourced a couple of hidden bluetooth 200W amplifiers. Plan is to mount it in place of the cigarette lighter and simply stream radio/tunes/map directions through the phone. Will hide a USB C charging port in the glove box.

I hope to pick up a heater from another member this weekend while in Sydney and am in discussion about demister vents with someone else. I trust that I will have this sorted over the weekend.

The fuel gauge has been elusive - either stupid money is required for a known working unit or people want dollars and postage for a unit and they can't tell me if it works or not. Risk on me! I have fond a mob that will bring mine back to life for $120 - so I expect I will head down that route and save it going to landfill.

I have partially repaired the broken tailgate bling - but need to find some heat sink type of material so the "solder" doesn't remelt and "run away" while I strengthen the

I only have the front engine mount and the chassis brackets for the rear one. I expect that the rear engine mounts and brackets and kicking around on the shed floor in place near Dubbo. I will post in the parts wanted section to see if I can find some. I also only have one guard spear (passenger side I think).

Over the last couple of weeks I have beenreading through the "accessory of the week" pages and have found some ideas that I will try to work on. Should be able to knock up a parcel shelf and a set of dual speakers for behind the speaker grille. Also need to find a jack/wheel brace etc - where  did they live in the ute?

Enough of an update for now

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Jack etc lives in the spare wheel compartment.

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Got it, thought it may have been behind the seat. Scissor jack, tool roll of little utility and a cross brace with hub cap remover and rubber cap I assume.

Commercials had the bottle jack as far as I know, with no jacking point under the b pillar. I think the standard tools would be familiar to most Australian males of a certain age, as they were generally floating around dads sheds in multiples. The orange handle screw driver, spark plug tube spanner and adjustable pliers stuck in my memory.


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Thanks - time to rat through the shed!

Being a builder and rain don't go together so I got a bit of time out in the shed this afternoon after doing quotes this morning. I ducked into town before lunch and picked up some model paint and got stuck into the horn button. The paint was flaky and missing in places. I used a combination of scotchbrite and nail polish remover to clean the old girl up. My lion had changed to gold but the rest of the silver remained the same colour. I kept the gold lion but rubbed back outlines around his legs and head so it was back to the resin. I did the same for the GMH symbol in the ball.

Then taped him all up in preparation for paint. If you have a close look at the lion you can see where I rubbed the paint back to the resin.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bGVXj54y/FC-Horn-Prep.jpg) ($2)

Then it was a matter of layering the paint. Silver first, then blue and finally the red. It turned out pretty well, although you can see in the blue places where I couldn't remove all of the old shitty paint in the creases and also where I missed a bit of silver overspray thet crept under the tape and some red that somehow bled through. I will rub that back tomorrow after the paint has died a little and do another blue coat to sort it out.

Turned out OK for my first ever attempt. The silver against the gold for contrast makes the lion much better defined and I like the GMH detail in red.

When I find another horn button I think I will soak it in a bit of thinners to see if I can't get the residue out of the creases in the blue and have another crack now that I know a little bit more about what I am doing.

Finished off the outside with a clean and a coat of headlight restorer. Restored horn button - must we worth 5 mph? ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vg15P1WY/FC-Horn.jpg) ($2)

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Looks great.

Great job Craig. 👍👍

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well done , looks the part ..

First bay back on the tools for the New Year - well it was supposed to be but pissing down rain here in Murrumbateman.

Tidied up some papaerwork and did some maintenance on our machines then started on the steering wheel. Sort of working in reverse until I can get the house resto complete as the shed space I need to work on the ute is full of materials for the house build, and the wife's Capris Convertable. So got to finish the house or the Capri before I get the sehd space I need!

Anyway the steerign wheel had been "restored" by the previous owner. A half hearted job, some bog/spot putty worked into the hairline cracks and then sanded with what looks like 120 grit judging by the sanding marks, well oversanded in places, and then hit with some gloss black. Enamel I expect.

I took to it with the dremmel and gouged out most of the bog and opted for the trusty 5 minute Araldite approach.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xcF5tvRd/Steering-Wheel-Front.jpg) ($2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cr6MgKSG/Steering-Wheel-Rear.jpg) ($2)

There will be a fair bit of sanding to do as I addressed every crack that I found. I will probably need to hit it with some spray putty as well to address the overzealous sanding of the previous owner. As it is going back into a ute I think a couple of coats of black and then some clear in 2 pack should tidy it all up.

Now to try and tidy up the hub caps - I think I have one decent one out of the four that could be rechromed. The other three have been battered over their life - I will see what I can achieve with a hammer and a few dollys but my selection is limited so a slow and steady approach will be required. I expect I will need to find a couple of spoons and make a couple of custom dolly's; but even then a couple of the creases are pretty deep. Slow and steady wins the race here I guess!

Craig,

It depends what you want to achieve with the hubcaps, but Electroplating Technology in Queanbeyan does a good thing with steel hubcaps.

Rob

Thanks Rob,

They are the guys I'm taking everything to. I went through everything today and found that there is still a bit of work to do before I take it in for them to do in a job lot:

• There was an inch depression in the lower member of the chrome grille caused a while back based on the rust in the depression. I have it back to 2mm over about 200 so I'm happy with that. I do have to weld a tear in the strengthening rib at the the centre of where the depression was though.
• On thorough inspection of the left hand front indicator I found a tear in the metal, won't be seen but will need a pot metal repair to stop it spreading.
• All of the three tail light surrounds that I thougth were good are damaged. I can probably repair two but maybe not to the standard for chroming - I could probably cut and shut two into one with a pot metal weld but I'm not sure of how the finish will come up. I'll have a chat with them about it as I am taking in the tailgate badge to discuss if the repair is good enough to chrome
• I need to pull the quarter windows apart. Started on it today but the rubbers are so stiff they don't want to come out. I will drill out the rivets tomorrow so I have better access to finish the job.
• I haven't been able to straighten one of the bumparettes enough to weld yet. I think I will apply some heat to see if I can get a bit more of a response - otherwise I will need to get it into somewhere to press it straight and weld the tear - another search while I am in town tomorrow
• The bonnet bird is in average state so definitely needs to be done
• The speaker grille and radio cover are in reasonable shape but will look odd among the new chrome so I will get them done as well

Craig,

I have many taillight housings.

Front quarter windows are a world unto themselves.  If you want a top-class job, it's best to separate the top hinge brackets from the frames, and also the lock pivot from the frame (many rivets to drill) and get each component rechromed separately.  Be aware also that the replacement Rare Spares rivets are oversize.  I had to turn them down before I could use them.  Also, chroming reduces hole diameters.

Rob

Thanks for the tip re the Rare Spares components - I assume it is the saem deal from Resto Country.  I'm going down the route of separating all of the components and getting them chromed individually. I've messaged you about the taillight housings.

Cheers
Craig

Ute tail lights were originally p a inted, rather than chromed. If you go that route, they can be lightly filled.

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Thanks, I was aware of that but Mrs J isn't a fan - I was keen on the painted route but was out voted!

I'm fighting to keep the standard chrome strip on the govebox and no radio as original (hiding a bluetooth unit). I folded on the heater though - I feel the cold now too!

Cheers

Got stuck into the lower portion of the grille today. It had a 25mm depression in the centre rear of the bar and had a small tear in the metal. I beat out the depression yesterday and it was about 2mm out of alignment. I grabbed the MIG today as we were welding up some damage to a couple of our trailers. After the first attempt the shrinkage pulled the bar out of alignment by about 10mm so I muscled it back into shape only to find the material adjacent to the weld tore. So it was rewelded and I used the MAP torch to heat it and then persuades it into position.
 
(https://i.postimg.cc/5QCHXN0M/Lower-Grille-Repair-1.jpg) ($2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRBFY6zW/Lower-Grille-Repair-2.jpg) ($2)

I managed to get it within a mm or so out of true so pretty happy with the result. It will be hidden at the rear of the bar and go unseeen so, while it will never be in concourse condition, it should cut the mustard for doing quotes in around Yass and Murrumbateman!

While the boys were slaving away on the trailer repair I also took the opportunity to drill out the rivets in the front quarter windows and separated the glass from the frames. Both clips that hold the pivot rod in place and allow it to rotate were rusted and snapped off so I need to find a way to repair that element before they can go back in. Thoughts?

Drilling out the rivets was time consuming but the worst part of the job was getting the 65 year old rubber out of the channel. Removing the glass with a paint scraper and hammer was probably the easiest part of the whole job.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Conveniently, Rare Spares reproduces the lower spring clips for FE-FC front quarter windows.

My preferred method for removing the glass from the frames is an oven preheated to 100 deg.

Is the pivot for the quarter window lock still firmly in place?  I have had to braze mine back in.

Rob

Thanks for the heads up - there is a Rare Spares store in Mitchell ACT so I will drop in.

Pivots are both good, one window lock missing the other siezed. Will probably purchase an aftermarket set and keep the original as a spare.

Cheers

Craig

Got a bit of time today to check out the engine in more detail. Unfortunatley the findings weren't great.

Despite the tag attached to the manifold showing 100 psi on all cylinders the readings I achieved were 75 - 80 psi across the board. Given the time it has been in dry storage it is highly likely that the rings are stuck in the grooves. I have always had it in my plans to "freshen" her up but was secretly hoping that there wasn't a reason to.

Off with its head me thinks - and we can do a better assessment from there.

Just got to fight Son 2 for some shed space. He ran (pushed in with a loader) his VZ Crewman project into the shed this morning and is in the process of changing over all of the V6 running and stopping gear for V8 bits.

Spare V6 and commy brakes, 🤔


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The thought crossed my mind but the V6 was sold off and the brakes etc will probably go the same way - if not I will put them on the parts shelf for a rainy day. I have a hot VY SS Commodore as one of my "work utes" - needs repainting but otherwise is in great nick so no need for another go really fast horse in the stable. I am going back to my FC roots and will get the old grey up and running again. In my youth I would have made it a four speed/maybe five but I am keen to keep the 3 on the tree for nostalgia purposes. I leant to drive in one and my last FC started out as one.

I’m with you Craig. They have to be straight six, bench seat. I’m running a red six, all synchro, with Roger Hancock column shift conversion in my FB ute.


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Craig,

Don't be in too much of a hurry to behead the grey.  If you have a compressor and a 14 mm spark plug adaptor, you can troubleshoot low compression easily -

Take the manifolds off.

Go through the firing order with each cylinder at TDC of the compression stroke.  Squirt a little WD-40 or kerosene on top of the valve heads via the intake and exhaust ports, then pressurise the combustion chamber (you'll need to stop the motor from turning).

Listen.  A deep wheezing sound down in the engine's guts means leaking piston rings.  Bubbling sounds indicate leaking valves.

If the compressions you obtained are evenly low, check the calibration of your compression gauge.

Oh, and if you have a vacuum gauge, you can check for head gasket leaks.  Here, it's best to loosen off the rocker pedestal bolts and nuts completely, so all the valves are closed.
Pressurise (say) no. 2, and connect the vacuum gauge to no. 3's spark plug hole.  Any positive pressure at all in no. 3 means a head gasket leak between the two cylinders.

Repeat the test with cylinders 4 and 5.  These two pairs of cylinders in grey motors tend to have poor head gasket sealing.

Rob

P.S. - there's a bloke in Bungendore who has a freshly built grey motor on a stand, with all accessories, twin Strombergs and tubular headers.  Would you be interested?

Thanks Rob,

I will do those checks before I behead the beast so I know what work will be required. I have always planned on gettign some work doen on the head. I expect you are aware of Chris Finn. He is advertising on Marketplace to crack tested and hot tank the head, install 202 valves withhardened seats and 308 V8 springs for $880. Bottom end will depend on what I find I guess - but plans for a mild cam, lightened flywhee and hone at best case. If the bloke in Bungendore has something ready to go at the right price I'm definitely interested. I can then work on this motor in slow time.
Cheers
Craig

So did the test above - the valves seal fine the problem lies in the rings. I expect that they are stuck in the grooves. Once I get some time I will behead it and remove the innards to see what tale they tell.

I have had a good look at the engine I picked up from the farm - she was a leaky old thing before they put her into the shed. Engine number is B27861 so an FB 138 engine and if the info I have gained off the net is correct it would be a 1960 build. I will strip it down as well and make a decision on how to progress.

I heard from Brett out at Bungendore, nice engine he has built there and at a good price. I am contemplating the option but will wait to see what I find before I commit either way.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

So it was raining again today so toddled off into the shed after lunch. Decided that with such consistently low readings across all 6 cylinders the rings are the problem - could be gone, could simply be stuck after 15 - 20 years sitting idle. Either way it looks like I will need to pull the old girl apart and see what is revealed. However, as a bit of a "Hail Mary" play I decided to see if I could get her up and running. I mean why build a test stand and then not use it. Plumbed up a gravity fed ful system off the hoist with a bit of hose and a funnel into an old fuel line, connected up the coil with an on off switch. checked the timing was about right, hooked up the jumper leads and gave it a burl.

You can check the video out here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMijPLAuTYE

Suffice to stay the timing is a little out but she ran OK. After we warmed her up a bit we pulled the pugs to check the compression readings - up to between 80 and 90 psi so a definite improvement but still well below what I want out of her. So I expect that our initial assessmant of the rings being stuck in the grooves was close to the mark. We will see what the rest of the story is when we strip her down I expect.

Well that didn't work.

The link for the video is: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMijPLAuTYE ($2)

Lean fuel mixture - possibly partially blocked jets, maybe a vacuum leak.
Ignition timing retarded.

But I don't see any blowby coming out the breather pipe, so I'd take a lot of convincing about piston rings stuck in the grooves.

Rob

Hi Rob,
100% on the retarded timing and the carby definitely needs an good clean and service. We were discussing the lack of pressure in the crank case and thought valves - but not likely that it would be consistent across all 6 pots if the valves were a problem. Given the increase in compression of around 15% across all of the cylinders I can't explain it any other way. If it was valves I would expect a variation in readings and the compression to remain steady at around 75 psi. The compression tester could be reading low; but is it a near new SP tools kit - not a $5 job made of chinesium so I doubt it lies there - but something we have to check.

Next step is to give the carby a clean and get is st up with some linkages, grab a fan belt, hook up the radiator, adjust the timing a little and get it running for a decent duration. 35 seconds isn't enough. The one thing I did notice is that is dounded pretty quiet, less the exhaust noise out of the open manifold.

We will learn as we go.
 

Very impressed with your technical ability in getting a video happening Craig. Never mind getting the engine running. Sounds solid anyway mate. 👍


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Hi Clay, I can't take much credit for the vid; son 3 took it. It was a funny afternoon as son 2 (a mechanic) sat in bewilderment at how the distributor and timing was set from the flywheel.  I tried to upload it using the You Tube icon but it failed miserably. Pretty easy to do - create a You Tube presence, take a video on your phone and upload it to your computer and from the computer to YouTube. I can talk you through it if you are keen.
Cheers n Beers
Craig

Thanks mate. I get by happily with a phone and iPad. I may have to invest in a ‘puter one day.


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Craig ..A even increase in compression is a good sign ...after you have done your tweeks and had it running for a good time and at temperature no doubt you will check compression again , for piece of mind you can , when she is hot and running , put a piece of cloth in road draft tube and block it off and remove the oil filler cap , and prevent wind from fan ,if there is excessive " blow by " it will pump fumes out the oil filler cap opening ..have a peek in and check oil on rocker shaft ..Vern ..

I did a recheck and adjust fo the timing and it is now an easy start and no problems with backfire; compression is still low and the rockers all rock. Oil is definitely getting to where it should be at the top end. I am seeing some "oil" smoke emenating from the oil filler cap and when I had it running with the rocker cover off. Can't be sure its blowby or if it is simply old oil burning off - can't give it a long enough run until I replace the water pump. I'll also refresh the fuel pump while I am at it and see if I can't have all of the support systems working at least.

Son 2 is putting the LS1 into the Crewman project tomorrow so I should get a bit of shed space back. I'll pull down the FB motor and check it over while I wait for part for this one.

Cheers n Beers
Craig

back in the day the oils then did get fumy , I can recall many a car with a stream of smoke coming out of the road draught tube ,we always blamed pre detergent oils, the oil filer cap is a breather in its self , the road draught tube ,cut at an angle as it is was designed to draw fumes away, then they had to clean up their act and came up with PCV valves ..oil will get past the rings in some engines into the combustion chamber , compression can get past and pressureise the sump ...burning oil is evident in exhaust gas and spark plugs ..blow by is evident as described earlier ..having said all that , modern day oils of course resist all that which makes identifing what is what....In the case of the engine in my FC ..a " L" engine number .bench tested running , very fumy....when I pulled it down , it mic 'd up ok ..little wear in bore , piston rings coked up in ring lands , have to dig them out, solid Perfect Circle oil rings ..NOT GOOD ..so honed bore ,slightly oversize compression rings , and four piece oil control rings , spreader, segmented keeper,and two rails per piston , easy to fit on piston , but bugger to be sure not overlapping on installation ..I actually test fitted a couple of pistons a few times to be sure what looked right actually was ..by the way , somewhere in its life the engine had been bored 3"1/16" plus .030" ...and I fitted Harvs head gasket ..round two ..engine runs quite well , 120psi each pot , head shaved , was the practice in the day ..Vern .
cse in the day ...

Craig ,,I meant to say also ..AS it seems the thing that concerns you is the compression and fuming of oil and etc ..and whats going on in the engine that you cant see..
 MY thinking is ,back in the day if the old heavy sludgie oils can get to where it did , where will modern day oils get ,so getting information and talking to JP pistons in SA..
the choise of rings became very important , that led to control of oil being as important as even compression..Vern ..

Thanks Vern,

Appreciate the advice and the heads up on the oil rings. I have used JP on previous builds I have done so I expect I will go back to them if I need pistons/rins etc.

The motor runs really well now that the timing has been adjusted. I am concerned that the compression is still 30-35 psi below spec (from the manual). The fuming isn't a huge concern at the moment as it could well be grubby oil transfer from hands/spills etc starting to burn off. Having said that I have only run the motor a couple of times in 30 -40 second bursts. Certainly the oil pump is working well, the head seems to be in good shape and the rockers are set nicely, the bottom end sounds as though it is in good shape and the the carby operates as it should (although needs a good clean). Electrically the distributor, coil and starter motor are fine.

Once I get hold of a working water pump I'll set it up, along with the generator and regulator, to do a decent run and see what occurs. Along with the observations and post run tests, I can read the plugs, check the electrcial system's major components and have a much better feel for what to focus on when I strip her down.

Engine and box went into the Crewman project yesterday so I will have some space available to on work both motors; the running L series and the non running B. I also now have some room on the hoist to throw the FC roller on to assess the suspension, steering etc and get stuck into the checking/fixing the wiring.

Small steps - but same as eating an elephant - just one bite at a time!

Cheers n Beers
Craig

Had a bit of time to spare this afternoon so off into the shed to tinker.. While I wait for the water pump to arrive I thought I would take a peek inside the FB motor to see what is preventing it from turning over. Dropped what little oil there was and found it to be a little milky - not a great sign. Ripped out the dizzy - she is frozen so will need to do some work there to free it up. Pulled off the rocker cover and side plate - every thing looked OK. Removed the manifolds and found the inlet to No 1 was rusty so at some stage water has entered through the manifold. Didn't appear to be too bad and should clean up fine. Next came the rocker gear - apart from two odd sized bolt heads; the rocker gear came off easily. The push rods all look to be straight and although the oil in a couple of the cam followers seemed to be a bit watery
they had no mushrooming and look to be in quite reasonable shape. Cracked the head and pulled it off. Not what I wanted to see, but what I expected to see. If it was a runner before it was laid up in the shed and the bores were open to the atmosphere the inevitable rust followed.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXFx8jc4/FB-Motor-Strip-1.jpg) ($2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yG3X8rh/FB-Motor-Strip-2.jpg) ($2)

Surprisingly, after finding the rust in the inlet to No 1 there was little rust there - but 2, 5 and 6 are quite rusty - unfortunatley a bit beyond surface rust. I doubt that a hone will suffice in getting them back up to speed. The piston tops look fine so I have let them soak in a bit of diesel overnight. I will turn her over tomorrow and see what is hiding under the pan. I trust that the bearings and crank are OK if so this one may be an easy salvage.

If I have it right - the only difference, besides some casting changes, between the FC and FB/EK is the piston size, a change in compression and an increase in oil pressure at idle. I assume the oil pressure was simply a change in the spring. How was the compression increased - head shaved?

So a couple of questions for the wise ones on grey motors in general:

Can the FC block be successfully bored to 138 or was the casting changed to provide more meat to play with?
Is there a discernable difference between the FC and FB/EK head?

Will update you with my bottom end findings tomorrow.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

So I soaked the pistons in a bit of deisel overnight. Turned the old grey over on the stand and stripped out what I could of the bottom end. I'll get to that bit later.

She was definitely and agricultural donk - not too many of the correct nuts and bolts left on her - probably dropped in the paddock when being repaired over time. I guess it tells a bit of a story about the life she probably endured and what probably found its way into the internals of the old girl over time.

This is what I found when I removed the sump:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VSTmNS52/FB-Motor-Strip-3.jpg) ($2)

While she looked pretty clean; but once I started getting into the important parts things weren't that great.

The first problem I faced is that I couldn't remove the woodruff key from the crank; so the oil slinger won't come off, so the cam can't come out. Applied a bit of heat to the opposite side of the key - still no movement. I have soaked it in WD40 and will have another look tomorrow. Not to be deterred I pulled off all the conrod bearing caps - that was when I noticed that every one of the crankshaft journals was scored. Not bad - but bad enough. It certainly none of them pass the fingernail test. I fully expect the main journals will be in the same condition.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jWW4pj9M/FB-Motor-Strip-4.jpg) ($2)

As soon as I removed the bearing caps the crank was free. As 3 and 4 pistons were at the top of their stroke I was able to pop them both out with the tap of a wooden drift. No 1 was not rusted so was an easy push through as well. 2, 5 and 6 took a little more persuasion but once they broke free I was able to tap them out gently. Rings were gunked up but all moving freely.

With the pistons out I was able to do some more checks - I had planned on running the verniers over her but decided against it. There is a good wear lip around the top of every cylinder and the rust, particularly in 5 and 6 is more than a little surface rust that will hone out.

Assessment is that a rebore and regrind of the crank journals with the associated pistons, rings and bearings is the minimum that could be done to have her running well again. I'm sure I could get her back running in her current state - but I expect performance would be pretty poor. I guess we will see what the end result is with the 132 before deciding which one to put time and energy into first. I doubt that the extra couple of horses between the two will be all that noticable so I think the 132 is marginally in front - simply bacause she runs and I can keep the engine/ute combo together.

I have been offered a 138 that has been rebuilt so I will keep that as an option once I know what the price will be to get one of these old girls back in shape.

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Craig,

You might be surprised about the bore condition and rust.  If you're brave, try some phosphoric-acid-based rust converter (eg. Ranex) on the cylinder walls, once the pistons are out.  Pull a second compression ring off a piston, run it down to the bottom of the bore, measure the gap, then run the ring right up to just under the lip and measure the gap again.  Divide the difference by 3 to give bore wear.  My rule of thumb is you're fine with less than 0.005" bore wear, and even up to 0.008" is OK.  Don't be in too much of a hurry to regrind the crank.  Scored crankpins are normal, unfortunately.  The main bearing journals will be the decider.  Up to 0.003" wear is OK.  Much more than that and your main bearings will be a little noisy.

To remove the Woodruff key, here's a trick I learnt from Harv: using a brass drift, hit down on the rear of the key so the front rises up.  Then you can get the drift partially under the key and knock it out.  Oil slinger out, then the fun starts.

You need a 1/4" drive 7/16" AF socket for the camshaft thrust washer screws.  Any other 7/16" AF socket will not fit through the holes in the timing gear.  Camshaft out.

Impact screwdriver with a big straight blade is what you need next, for the front engine plate countersunk screws.

--------------/-------------

The photos suggest that the head gasket was sealing well.  That's a plus.

The increase in compression was achieved firstly by a revised combustion chamber design partway through FC, and then an extra 1/16" bore size when the FB came out.  Greys are generally good to bore out to 3-1/8" (144 cubes) and sometimes 3-3/16" (149).  Given a choice between an L block and a B block, go the B block.  The main bearing caps are stronger.  And if you can score a J block, use it.

*  Are you sure the motor in the photos is a B block?  The no. 2 main bearing cap is the early style.

Grey motor oil pumps went through several subtle revisions.  The one you'd be thinking of is a change to the body casting to reduce leakage past the gear teeth, but in general grey motors are very tolerant of low oil pressure at idle.  The main thing is to check the clearance of the relief valve piston in the bore.  Raid a red motor oil pump for the piston and spring if needed.

Cylinder heads:  Yes.  FX-FC heads are "single-hole" (i.e. only one tapped hole on the left side of the head).  FB-EJ heads are "two-hole".  Still prone to cracking between the exhaust valve seats though.

That's enough of a brain-dump for now.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the brain dump. I'm brave, and have nothing to lose, so I will give the phosphoric acid a crack. I am not that confident in 5/6 coming good as i can feel the pitting. Worth a try; what is there to lose?

I'll check tomorrow and report back.

The brass drift approach was attempt 2 at getting the woodruff key out. I have a 1 1/2x 1 1/2 x 10 in brass bar I nabbed from the old man's tools before my brother got hold of it. She is tight and didn't want to move. Heat was attempt 3, although I didn't try the drift a second time. I'll let it think it has won tonight and have another crack tomorrow. I will defeat it!

Camshaft bolts are already out - no issues there. Just can't pull the cam out because of the oil slinger

Head gasket was doing its job for sure. I have two of Harvs improved gaskets on the way so I can get both motors back to runners keeping one as a spare. I just need to prioritise the effort due on a time basis - looking forward to retirement so time is no longer a restriction.

Motor is definitely stamped as a B block - B27861 so if they are early bearing caps there has been something sinister in there before. I could tell by the assortment of unmatched/overlenght/underlength fasteners that someone with little attention to detail, or working in a paddock, has had a play.

I assume when you are talking about tapped holes in the head that you are referring to the holes into the water jacket for the heater/temp gauge. I have two holes in both heads - the FC and FB. If you are referring to a different tapped hole I am all ears.

Craig,

It may be that the bigger main bearing caps were introduced later in B-motor production.  You got me curious now - I have a 3-3/16" B22xxx motor I was planning on warming up a bit.

If you're a good shot with a welder, (no, no, you don't want to risk damaging the crankshaft.  Belay that.)

Rob

Rob,

I have plans for warming up the ute as well. So it would be great to hear your plans. At this stage I have sourced a set of triple 1 1/4" SUs and headers. I have sussed out the head work I plan to get done. The provider is Masterstroke Engineering in Sunbury Vic. I was going to ask as I got closer about their reputation and work but seeing as we are here what is known about them? They are offering to crack test, hot tank and blast the head then surface, re-thoat to suit 202 valves (inlet & exhaust), machine port, fit hardened exhaust seats, fit 308 V8 springs & modified retainers (80lbs seat pressure) and supply and install new valve guides, intake & exhaust valves.

I've heard good things about Clive's Cams to regrind the cam to add a bit of spirit but remain good as a daily driver. I expect I will need to have the cam followers refaced and lapped at the same time I get the grind done.  I'm not sure about pistons, I don't have a fel for what is available and have not done much research to date so I'm really open to advice on that one. A lightened flywheel and balance and I think I will be done.

Craig ..I'll chime in here ,,if you are basically happy with the engine and say to yourself i'll do this one ..What i would do ..take it to engine machine shop and put it in the pickle bath .. a few bucks , but cheap insurance premium ...then check it all over , crack test , then let the micrometer do the story telling ...and correct use of micrometer , by that I mean , example , when measuring the big end crank journals ,measure each journal in several places along and around it , looking for taper and ovality ,back in the day some engines had one journal only ground undersize .there is lots of things to cover when preparing an engine build..best get the machine shop to measure everything for you ..Vern ..

Thanks Vern,

Great advice. I have been in contact with two local engine builders and their advice was similar and reasonable value if all they are doing the machine work only. I'll do some more research on oversized pistons but they are a simple purchase. You are 100% correct I need to get the motor into a bath and tested to see if it is even worth progressing. Unless bad things have been heard about Masterstroke Engineering I'll send the head to them and the cam to Clive's Cams. As the B motor isn't a runner and really needs a refresh I'm leaning towards sending it off to be done first. I'm sort of hoping that the L motor will only need a hone and rings to be back up to speed - everything else about that one looks great compared to the B motor.

I have confirmed that both heads are later model two hole heads. The one on L series is M5 2 and the B series B150. If I have it right:

• The L motor head was cast on 5 Dec 62 (52 would be one hole), so out of an EJ
• The B motor head was cast on 15 Feb 60, so probably out of an FB

Cheers Craig

Craig,

Forget what I said about main bearing caps.  The number 2 and 3 main bearing caps in 132 blocks have very narrow webbing between the cap bolts.  The webbing was widened for the B blocks.  Then for the J blocks the number 2 and 3 main bearing caps were enlarged again, with longer bolts to suit.

Anyway, when you pull the sump off the L motor you'll be able to compare.

Rob

Rob,

Got it -thanks for the clarification.

So had another crack at the B motor after lunch.

The woodruff key took a bit of tapping on the nose to come out but she did. The leading edge is a bit manky now, I could file it but cheap enough to get another and keep this one as a "Justin".
Once that was off dismantling was no problems.
Main bearing journals are good - haven't measured them as I only have a set of digital verniers. Potentially just a linish and new bearing caps required.

Once the cam was out I spashed a bit of rust converter about 5, 6 and 2 and after washing it down gave it a hone. Surprisingly I was able to get 90% of the rust removed, still a bit under the lip of 5 and 6 but I was worried about honing it too much just in case it was salvagable inits current state.

So out with the feeler gauges to measure the compression ring gap top and bottom of the cylinder. Based on Rob's >0.005 in methodolgy in relation to wear, five of the six cylinders fail (only just) - but still a fail.

Top         Bottom         Delta   Delta/3                                                            Acceptable Gauge 1   Gauge 2      Total       Gauge 1    Gauge 2    Total      Delta    Delta/3             ?    0.032        0.014        0.046         0.032         0.014     0.046        0           0               Pass 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032          0        0.032        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032          0        0.032        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032         0        0.032        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.014        0.046         0.03          0            0.03        0.016   0.0053         Fail 0.032        0.016        0.048         0.032          0            0.032        0.016   0.0053          Fail

More telling is the ring gap is double plus the maximum allowable in the manual. So I guess we know why it was pulled out; she would have been pretty low on compression I expect and probably chewing a bit of oil (which probably explains the crud on the piston crowns)

The piston has no markings on the exterior. Holden is cast vertically on one interior wall and 13 on the other side. It measures up, using verniers, so not very accruate, at 3.04in (.02 in) under standard so I expect that they are the original slugs. They don't appear to have been rattling around in the bore so I need to take some more measurements to see if it is simply a case of worn rings. However, given the bore wear is at the limit I think it would be prudent go oversize. If the cam measures up OK I may get out of it lightly.

Next step is to book her into the machine shop for an assessment and we will go from there.

Craig,

Piston diameter measured at the crown is less than across the skirts.  It's best to measure across the skirts, at right angles to the piston pin axis.

About ring gaps: My grey FC's motor had 0.070" top ring gap before I re-ringed it, and it ran fine.  My Humpy's on its third set of rings, and after the last re-ring job, the top ring gaps were 0.025". It runs OK too.

Rob

I took both - the skirt measurement was 3.055 (still under what it should be - but again verniers are an inaccurate way of measuring. I'm sure I could re-ring it and get some more time out of her but I don't want to have to do it again so will take it in and get it cleaned up and measured up then take it from there. Best case is we hone and linish, new rings and bearigns and crack on. Worst case is about $3K in machining - I'm thinking that we will be somewhere in between!

The major show-stopper with re-using pistons is worn top ring grooves.  Roll the second compression ring around the top groove and measure the side clearance with a feeler gauge.  Anything above 0.003", and your oil consumption will rise.

It'd be interesting to see if your crankshaft is still nominally standard size, given that the pistons appear to be . . .

Rob

Craig ..Mixing of main bearing caps in theory means line boring ..in all engines the caps are mated to that engine ..main bearing cap failure in standard or mildly worked engines is rare ..Rob is correct , pistons are oval , at least below the piston pin ..you can expand the skirt of a piston to reduce " slap " in the bore ..some shops have them . funny little dished cradle with a long arm acts like a hammer ,you roll the skirt backwards and forwards gently , too much and it wont go down the bore ..I dont believe pistons have to go back in the same pot .I put the one that feels right and just seems to be correct in that bore , con rods ???? keep them where they came from unless you suspect something .By the way , weigh all your components and make them the same weight , I have been amazed at the difference between assembled conrods...when I worked in engine reconditioning pistons came in a box of six with rings and pins fitted ,each piston had a coloured paint spot on top , that was your final bore honeing clearance  ...you might be doing say 4 engines in a run ,blocks were all cleaned and tested and passed ok to go into the system and be machined ..say all were going to clean up with .040 thou oversize pistons so 4 boxes of pistons drawn from the store clearly marked .040 thou oversize ...open the box some had blue dot , some had red dot etc ..you would look for 4 sets all with same paint colour , saved resetting the wet hone , or even worst not remembering to ..I am talking the 1970's where machines were nothing like today ..so in a way engines are individual from the out set ..We restored a McCormick Deering W4 tractor a couple of years ago , we ordered a set of dry liners from USA , actually made in Mexico ..on arrival the pistons and rings are assembled in the liner ready for drop in ..called an " overnight Kit "we took them apart ,one piston was way heavier than the other 3 ..maybe in low rev tractor not a big deal , we machined it , all even is better than one odd one ..

Thanks for the tips Vern,

I have everything laid out in order so everything can go back into its original spot if it us re-used. My gut feel is the crank will measure up OK and will just need the bigend journals linished. If we do need to do undersize the crank at any point I will undersize the lot and start from "new".

I'm taking my measurements as initial guidance - the bore wear has me preparing to go oversize so new pistons and will definitely get them to balance before I put it back together. I have been looking at pistons and the range in prices is extraodrinary - $300 on eBay to $1050 for JP from Auto Surplus (Auto Surplus have them cheaper on eBay too). My eperience with JP has been good; however, a $700 saving is something to look at. I have no ideas as to the quality of the eBay slugs.

I'd be interested to hear about the experience of others while I continue to investigate. $700 may be having a lend because it is "old" or the right sum for good quality. I trust there is some wisdom in the forum to help me out. I'd rather learn from wisdom than learn from my mistakes.

Craig ..Yes pricing today is crazy ...and your right a lot of it doesn't make sense...and car parts is one of the most baffling unfathoumamble ( you like that word )
I see sets of piston and rings in Standard sizes are considerably less expensive than oversize ..If your " L " engine if standard or first or second oversize and needs a bore , why not 3.1/16 "STD ..more choise out there ..there is a guy on this forum who is a private reconditioner down south coast I believe , he probably has those in stock and just needs a customer like you ..at least you will know exactly what your getting ..some one will know him and post his details hopefully ..Vern

Brad Stephens at Mogo Vern?

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Hi Team

I have been working hard on the hose reno, just got the new trusses up and resheeted; still got a tarp over one end as I don't have the ridge cap finished. Still a long way to go - so not much preogress on the ute. We did get the Crewman project finished and off the hoist - big job converting a pov pack V6 to an SS including aircon etc but running and ready for rego once we get a new windscreen fitted.

So the ute went upon the hoist for its first real good inspection. A bit of surface rust around the floor repairs; whcih had been done pretty well by the previous owner. From the undersdie I did spot a coupl of pinholes in the front floor; but where it has already been repaired so I expect missed welds but I will have a better look soon. Around the fuel tank does need some work - I haven't asessed it in detail to see if I can patch up the holes or if I will need to cut the two sections out and fabricate something to fix it. Certainly not major rust so pretty happy.

The front end - not so good. Both king pins have play - drivers side worse than passengers. I have a HR front end but I will save that until after I get it re-registered on standard plates. I will need to strip it down to determine what is worn and how badly before making a decision on how to resolve that one.

I trust that the pins themselves are OK and I am looking at new bushes. I note that there was a specific reaming tool for the FC - can only find EH ones on the interweb at the moment. Does anyone have an excess reaming tool that they would be willing topart with; or alternatviely have purchased a suitable modern reamer with guide that they have found works. If so i would love to know the brand/kit to save a heap of research.

Will post some photos soon - off to our local Toyaot dealer to have a chat about a 79 series V8 cruiser in preparation for our big lap!

Cheers n Beers
Jolls

Craig,

I have a Warren and Brown reamer to suit FX-FC king pins.

It's unlikely you'll be able to get by with replacing just the bushes (and then I remember I did just that . . .).
The Rare Spares king pin kits are supplied with 0.010" oversize pins.  This is good in that you don't have to replace the old bushes.  It is bad in that you have to machine out the steering knuckle supports to take the larger pin.  I have it on good authority (Drew at FB-EK) that this operation is a complete pain in the arse, due to the difficulty of setting up the steering knuckle support in a machine, and the hardness of the forging.

So - check the fit of the pins in the uprights.  They're supposed to be almost size-for-size, but the king pins often loosen, start to rock, and flog out the hole in the upright.  If your pins don't rock in the uprights, you may be able to replace the bushes only, if the pins aren't worn.

See https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=26930.0

Rob

Hi Rob

Thanks for the update I'll pull it down and develop a plan to tackle it from there.

Cheers
Craig