Grey Motor info

[GreyFC]

Are you able to re-post the second picture.

[GreyFC]

The thing that I keep coming back to is if there never was a Candian block then where did the myth start form?

Someone sent me Dons number by SMS today so I might give him a bell hear his side aswell.

[Professor Grey]

Here it is guys, not being able to preview is a pain in the butt.


1942 Afrikakorps Opel Blitz


Cheers, Prof.

[Professor Grey]

More...
Post-war Opel Firetruck


Prof.

[fe350chev]

Hi guys. Perhaps someone who was into Greys in the 60's got their engines mixed up because 327 chev engines were Canadian and the Canada factory produced all the off shore blocks and other makes of car other than chevs in Canada.

[Ray Bell]

Come on guys... if you want to post on the thread, please read it from the beginning so you don't ask questions that have been answered 11 years ago!

As for the Opel connection, the point made was not about the design or even common parts, it was that it is extremely unlikely that Opel had the capacity to make any bits for Holdens at the time.

[HAD 708]

guys
I have spoken in length to Don Loffler just last year on this Canadian topic and to his belief he is not aware of any Canadian block, but he is aware of the topic and the continued banter.
Brett

[Dr_Terry]

As I understand it, early Holden grey motors had Lucas or Delco-Remy electrical components. Use of Bosch parts came a fair bit later.

All Holdens, up until early 1953 had Delco-Remy starters & generators etc. After that time Australian-made Bosch units were fitted.

Australian-made Lucas came along as an alternate supplier to Bosch in the 12 volt era (sometime in the FE/FC period).

Dr Terry

[detective]

...Hi fellas  ..  i've just joined the forum this arvo and am interested in this topic, as are obviously quite a few others...

.....over a 20 odd year period, i've managed to do my own fairly exhaustive research on the early Holden/engine subject and to that end have managed to find myself with the remains/wreck of the Pt Pirie dealer (Midway Motors) 1948 ''announcement'' Holden which has the Woodville body assembly number 149 and from all accounts was the 100th Holden produced....

...in tandem with this and the prototype/pilot study, i have kept my field of interest to the 1948 only manufacture of these earliest of Holdens....an extremely fascinating subject. In the course of these studies the old ''Canadian Block'' chestnut was always present, or lurking very close in the background...

...after a vast search, the earliest engine i have has the number 2265 and is a fairly non-descript Grey with a date code indicating production in about April 1949 from memory...it is very early all the same considering they started at engine number 1001...and i have never seen anything that would make me think that any of our engines weren't produced right here....

....What has to be stated i feel is that these engines were only ever the product of GM-H Fishermans Bend. there were the CWC prototype Michigan engines which numbered about ten from all accounts, but beyond that it was all local production. What is probably not well known is that these very earliest locally produced jobs were very much a hand built affair...balanced, blueprinted, toleranced etc. etc. to make sure that there would be a minimal failure rate...especially in the hands of the initial dealers demonstrating these things to a wary publc...

.....these very earliest engines have tiny stamped numbers close to a lot of the machined areas, or in fact on a machined surface... relating to that particular crank, cam, piston/combustion chamber or valve gear. the (ex?) Phil Munday (8-1157-M engine number 1126) engine is riddled with these numbers....along with the engine number being stamped very close to the end of the pad, locked in by a hand stamped asterick.....a very GM thing back in the day to avert any false warranty claims, as the cast in date coding on the very earliest Holden engines was quite abysmal....check the 1055 number and note the asterick in the picture....


anyway i'm open to be howled down, although i can substantiate a lot of my studies for anyone so interested.....i just reckon the whole Canadian Block story is bunkum....cheers fellas

[Ray Bell]

Surely those tiny number stamped on machined surfaces were the identifier of the person who machined that part?

This is a technique used by Peugeot at least until the 1980s. Every machinist had their stamp and marked each part they machined.

[detective]

hello Ray  ..  at least on the head the series of small stamped numbers are adjacent to the valves and external to the rocker cover just above the head bolts  ...possibly indicating shims or valve spring tension?....very open to any thoughts

[Ray Bell]

Certainly a better question to throw before the masses than anything about Canada...

[fe350chev]

I don't believe it exists either. None of the stories check out in relation to production timeframes nor is this engine in the same family of any American like engine so it's very unlikely Canada would go it alone. They mainly produced the kits for cars assembled here as chev and handled the smaller overseas and different programs from my research. Ppl should be able to talk on a forum about what they like I think and if ppl are sick of a topic then they need not follow. But there are younger or newer forum users that like to do their own research or experience things for themselves. I think ken has explained before that a lot of these so called thicker casts etc can just be that if you were into early mods on a 10 year old grey motor then it most probably able to be bored more cos it wasn't very old. Same could be true for the ek or fb blocks or whichever it is but these motors are all pretty ancient and get thinner with age.

[GreyFC]

Well the a rumor heard is that the blocks were cast in the USA, stamped "Made in Canada" and shipped from Canada to avoid import taxes.

Like I have said before "I want to believe", but there is no proof.

[detective]

.....from reading a lot along with the research and studies, it appears if anything the Grey motor was based on the Buick style of engine...especially in the oiling system,which apparently is not the same as the Chevs......it may be worth pursuing that angle, and see what comes out in the wash.....

...about 10-12 years ago i spoke to Noel Thompson of Malvern SA. He was one of the GMAC travelling reps in 1948-49 and would go all over South Australia visiting the various Holden dealers... firstly see how things were with their hire purchased demonstrators, and secondly to make sure the cars weren't getting too knocked about in some of the rougher areas....

... He related to me the story of how when travelling in a Holden at sustained high speeds (up to 90 MPH on some occasions) the engines would very gradually climb in temperature and eventually the temp light would display. It was at the point the boffins realised that because of the thicker cylinder walls, the engines in certain situations were acting like a heat sink....hence the decision was made to reduce the wall thickness a little....which seemed to have the desired result....that was his story and i feel no need to refute it

...i s'pose a novel idea would be to simply weigh a pre 37,000 engine numbered bare block and compare that to one not far beyond that cut-off number.... just to see if there was a great heap of difference in weight...a much later grey block had more ribbing and strengthening, so that comparison would probably be negated....cheers fellas

[GreyFC]

Pretty sure the heat problem is cavitation in the water pumps.  Greys suffered from this at sustained high revs.

[RET]

There's also a harmonic vibration that kicks in around the 6800rpm mark that's prone to cause crank failure. You can push past it if you're game and your engine is up to it. (So I'm told.)

[GreyFC]

It's 6200 so stay above or below it

[detective]

...Hi GreyFc  ..  i hope i'm not looking like a smarty.... i s'pose high speed in an old FX Holden may not neccessarily relate to the overly high engine revs of a good Grey in a different application....especially with those 15'' wheels and balloon tyres they ran on back in the day??....cheers

[Professor Grey]

Now now boys,
Don't stray too far off the Canadian track or someone will get miffed, if you know what I mean.