A few little things...

[Dave]

G'day,
  A mate of mine has just bought a nice original FC that i have been doing a little work on for him...as i am no expert with grey motors, i have a few questions:

- The extractors have me beat...4 pipes out of a 6 cylinder motor? Something to do with siamese ports or something?

-Having some cooling problems...getting hot and losing water out overflow.  The lower pipe seems to suck in a little under pressure...will replace it.  The fanbelt had a little free play and when i tried to tighten it the generator was at full extension...so im guessing its fitted with the wrong belt?

I thought the thermostat had gone, but when i went to replace it, it didnt have one...are those old water pumps too big not to run a thermo on the highway? i replaced it with a 180f thermo.

No leaks from anywhere, radiator good. Any other options to solve problem?

-The funny hose that comes out the sideplate? is that just sump emissions? it is leaking a little bit of oily gunk.

- i have a chrome sideplate to fit that seems to be very thin...would it bolt onto the existing metal sideplate?

- the engine block reads like an FE...ie the numbers are too ealry for an FC...although it is a 132 block...would they have had left over grey motors at some plants?

- it is a standard and a funny pale blue colour that doesnt much holden codes...could it be an ex police car or Quantas fleet??

Cheers, any help appreciated

Dave

[RET]

Happy to help where I can.  Answers in same order as questions

4 exhaust outlets from the head is not unusual on older motors.  Picture the valves like this (outlet being the bigger one, obviously):

Oo oO Oo oO Oo oO

and it's obvious what's going on.  The middle two outlets are shared by pots 2/3 and 4/5.  The outer two are connected to one cylinder each.

It's exactly the same principle as the three inlets.


Get yourself a lower hose with the spring built in.  The non-reinforced hoses commonly have this problem.  Sounds like the wrong belt was fitted or it's way stretched.


It should have a thermostat.  Taking them out is rarely a good idea.


Check you don't have a radiator cap designed for an overflow tank.  The correct cap is 7lb pressure, BTW.


The pipe out of the sideplate is an oil-breather, yes.


The sideplate isn't particularly heavy gauge, surely the chrome one you have is just an original sideplate that's been chromed


Re engine number: On what do you base that theory?  All original FE and FC motors have a 6 digit engine number that starts with "L".  The motors continued without any break from the last FE to the first FC.  There's a page here that explains all.


Please post all the info off the ID plate, as well as the engine no and chassis number and I'll tell you if it all matches and if it's possibly something rare.  Standards only came in a very limited range of colours of which there was at least one pale blue.

cheers
RET

[Dave]

Thanks Ret,
  You're a dead set champ.  Im in exams at the moment so will check the exact code numbers soon...but from memory, the engine number is L400XXX...ie it would be an FE block from around November 57.

Someone has screwed on some side chrome that isnt quite right...the back door may be a the right chrome, but the front and back are just strip off the front of an FE i think.  Any ideas on where to get the real stuff to make it look like a special? rare spares?

Are there better extractors around now for a grey motor...they could be quite old.  It looks to have a bigger carby (149???), i think the originals were like a cylinder shape...this one is more square.  The fc has 2inch straight through exhaust so im guessing someone has played with it a little.

In the boxes and boxes of spares there is a chrome performance filter...is it worth replacing the old one and getting the motor tuned up for the new one?

Thanks a lot
Dave

[Dave]

One more thing...the new hose i bought is rather soft like the old one.  The ford ones have springs in them...where do you get the better hoses?  Will try no to hassle anyone too much anymore!

Cheers

[4hammers]

RET
This car sounds like the one that was on Ebay not long ago. Remember? It had the Standard front trim & windscreen rubber, but the Special rear trims.
I also emailed the guy for compliance plate details, but he wouldn't give them to  me. No probs.
Keen to find out what it is.
Rob J

[RET]

Re Obtaining special trims:

DON'T DO IT!

Standards are rare, world+dog has a Special.

Standard FCs should have:
- a short die-cast spear on the guards
no stainless trim on doors or quarter panels

Rob - you're probably right.

Hoses?  Not sure where you live, so can only suggest you shop around.

Extractors for grey motors aren't easy to come by, and it's unlikely you'll get any better than what you've already got as far as performance is concerned.  Of course if there are rust holes all through them, that's a different story.

I think you'll find that is the original carburettor.  Grey motor carbs were strombergs, virtually indistinguishable from those used on red motors (at least with a cursory examination anyway).  You might be thinking of those dinky looking carbs you see on British cars, Morries and the like.

Performance filter?  Air filter I presume you mean?  Unless we're talking some kind of weird forced induction caper the air filter is unlikely to make very much difference.  The paper element filter was introduced to FCs built from around September 1959.  Prior to that they had an oil-bath filter.

Hope that's all your questions answered for now.

cheers
RET

[JB]

The other thing to try for the heating problem would be the timing.

Just my little bit.

Cheers
Jason.

[mcl1959]

Dave - the easiest way to tell a red carby from a grey is the red carb has a valve in the top of the air horn venting to the atmoshere under zero acceleration.  The grey does not.  Otherwise they look identical.

Heating problems are very common - check a few threads previous on the subject - causes can be from a dozen or more things.

Engine has been changed  - this is not rare after 40 odd years.

[colt]

Dave,
you can buy decent extractors for the grey motor with four pipes, two collectors and another collector under passenger floor. cant give you a brand name as my bits are stored during respray. a good exhaust shop should be able to get some . colin

[EJ_Dave]

I have motovator extractors on my 138 grey (In an EJ) that match Colin's description.  I got them new through an exhaust shop in Gunnedah about three years ago (who fitted them too). When I made enquiries I was surprised the guy there knew off the top of his head that Motovator made 'grey' extractors and got them in overnight (to Gunnedah!). Booked the car in the next day before he even ordered them he was that confident.

David

[Effie C]

G'Day
If you are interested I have a brand new set of extractors the same as Colin's for sale,still in plastic wrap.
I purchased them for project which has since devloped too much rust and has been cut up.
E-Mail me or PM with phone number and I will contact.
John M

[Dave]

G'day,
 
Thanks for very much to everyone for their help - it is much appreciated.

The FC now runs right on 180f, so thats one problem out of the way.

A big thanks for the tips on extractors - will make a decision soon - thanks for the kind offer john!

A couple of more questions if I may:

- what sort of oil pressure should a grey motor run at? The aftermarket guage reads quite low at about 10psi from memory - at revs.  I dont know whether the guage is accurate, or compatiable with such an old engine.  It does rise slightly when reved though.

- are gear linkages easy to adjust? there is a little free play in the colum in second gear and a clunk when shifted into first.

- If the motor doesnt turn over first go, the starter motor makes a "thunk" sounds and doesnt spin like im assuming it should...usually starts first go though.

- are the workshop manuals good? might try and track one down.

RET - it is def. a standard (code 215).  The interior colour reads "peasant blue" on the code, and the paint is a 4 digit number as opposed to the normal 3 digits.  in the sheet i have, oly the commercial colours (POST OFFICE RED) have 4 end digits...will get you the exact numbers soon - the number wasnt on that sheet though - no blues at all with such digits.

Thanks again
Dave

[RET]

Dave,

Original GM-H workshop manual is a bible and an absolute must-have.  Easy to find on Ebay or at most swap meets (in Sydney anyway).

Either the oil-gauge or the sender is rooted. Should be 25 psi or thereabouts.  Could be the oil-pump, but I doubt the motor would survive very long with oil-pressure that low.

You'll get all the info on paint codes and numbers in the tech info section, but basically a standard sedan should have an ID plate that looks like:

BODY: FC-215-xxxxx-X
TRIM: aaa - bbb
PAINT: ccc-dddd

There should be only one paint number.  The TOP and INSERT (if it has one) labels should be blank.  If the RPO isn't, let me know what the number for it is.

aaa describes the exterior colour or colour combination (ie Olinda Green over Adobe Beige, or Elk Blue)
bbb describes the interior trim, ie Peasant Blue as you mentioned
ccc is the paint type, amost always 253 for duco
ddd is the BALM paint number (without the leading digit '1', where applicable).  On two-tone cars there are two sets of these numbers.

Hope that helps.  Check out this page, where you can enter all the data and it will decode it for you.

cheers
RET