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Author Topic: Finally a runner  (Read 27244 times)
ardiesse
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« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2018, 12:11:52 PM »
+1

Nick,

Excellent progress.  But it's a shame that the engine has a few "non-standard" (read slightly bodgy) features.

You worked out how to remove the big-end caps.  Usually it's a couple of side-to-side taps with a hammer and brass drift.

To get the ground-down hex-head bolts off, you may need to sacrifice a socket.  If you can get a six-point socket of the right size, I'd suggest one of those.  If you can't get a six-point socket, buy a twelve-point socket (that's one of the normal kind), and grind about a millimetre off the business end so there's no chamfer left.  Then use a breaker bar to undo the two bolts.  Lean in hard on the back of the socket to stop it from slipping.  Or, use the ground-down socket with an impact driver.

Desperation measures:  get an old 3/8" socket extension, grind the chrome off, and weld it onto the bolt head.  Just don't weld the bolt head to the front engine mount plate . . .  Or grind a slot into the bolt head and use an impact driver, as has been suggested.

When it comes time to reassemble the engine, see whether you can buy 5/16" UNC countersunk socket head (i.e. Allen) screws.  That's a problem for later.

They don't write on the camshaft what grind it is.  But you can tell whether it has been reground.  Original fibre timing gear says to me that it's a standard cam.  On a standard cam, the followers protrude maybe a millimetre proud of the block when the valves are closed.  If the cam's been reground, the followers will sit down lower than that.  You can also tell by looking at the camshaft.  Standard cams have a "rough-cast" appearance between the lobes, and the "base circle" of the lobes is a couple of millimetres proud of the shaft itself.  On a mild grind, the base circle will be really close the body of the shaft, and on a wild grind, the entire shaft will have been machined down between the cam lobes.

Rob
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« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2018, 02:07:50 PM »
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It's getting scarey. Hope i can put it back together .

I can relate to your thinking!

Great support, great reading.
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« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2018, 07:02:16 PM »
+1

All sorted.
Cut a groove with 1mm disc and screwed out easy.



Crank out and parts all set out. Need to get a gasket set .





Who would supply extra rear mains as I might need a few goes at it
ll
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« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2018, 09:16:50 PM »
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Nick,

Well disassembled!

It looks like your camshaft is a mild grind, but the photo's a little motion-blurred.

Your local parts outlet should be able to source the rear main bearing oil seal as a loose part.  I recently bought a grey motor rear main seal from Auto Surplus in Melbourne.  They have gasket kits in stock, take orders over the phone, and their deliveries are prompt.

If you get really stuck, I can send you that one.

For reference, the countersunk screw for the front engine mount plate is 5/16" UNC x 5/8" long.  Your local engineering supply place should be able to source them.  If not, Lee Brothers in Parramatta is sure to have them.

Does your engine have the oil slinger in front of the crankshaft gear?  It's a sheet metal disc, just larger in diameter than the crankshaft gear.  If the engine didn't have one, I'd recommend getting one, for reduced risk of oil leaks out the timing case oil seal.  File a notch in the oil slinger to clear the Woodruff key in the crankshaft, so you don't have to take the key out to put the slinger on.

Rob
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« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2018, 03:02:49 PM »
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Hey Rob,
I'm trying to find out what the grind on it was. He said that he did it when getting the crank ground. Can you tell from that crappy photo??
Ive ordered an old(?) rope seal from a site on facebook (Early holden and Ford bumpers James Rayner) for 36 buck each.

I took the slinger out and have filed a notch in it.


One other issue is with the timing case. As you can see from this photo the bolt protrudes into the gasket for the front crank cap. ??

Thanks Heaps
Nick

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« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2018, 04:40:16 PM »
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Nick,

The wrong length bolts were put in those two positions.  Cut those two hex. head bolts down to the right length (flush with the back of the front engine mount plate).  Looking at the photo more closely, your motor is either a late B-series, or a J-series block, from the sizes of the bolt heads.  But the timing case is from an early.  There should be a crescent-shaped reinforcement spot-welded to the timing case.  But your timing case hasn't leaked any . . .

You'll have to take some measurements to determine the cam grind.

Once you've installed the camshaft, leave the timing case off, but temporarily put the harmonic balancer and flywheel back on.  Fashion a pointer out of stiff wire and hold it in place with one of the timing cover bolts.  Turn the crank over until no. 1 is at top dead centre (the "T" mark on the ring gear aligned with the pointer on the inspection hole, I think) and mark the harmonic balancer at this point.  Long screwdriver in no. 1 spark plug hole is the most reliable way of finding TDC.  Install the two followers and pushrods for no. 1 cylinder, and then the front rocker assembly.  Adjust the valve clearances to 0.015" inlet and exhaust (a best-guess at the moment) with no. 1 at TDC.  Turn the engine through the firing stroke, and the exhaust stroke. The exhaust valve will open.  As the exhaust valve closes, turn the engine over bit by bit and twirl the inlet valve pushrod, just until you can't twirl the pushrod between your fingers.  Mark this point on the harmonic balancer with an "I".  Then keep turning the engine over bit by bit, just until the exhaust valve pushrod frees up enough to twirl it between your fingers.  Mark this spot on the harmonic balancer with an "E".  Now you need to find the protractor you took to high school maths classes.  Measure the angle between top dead centre and "I"; and also between top dead centre and "E".

Standard cam timing is 4-6 degrees from TDC (bugger all).  I'm expecting that "I" and "E" will be about 20 degrees from TDC, which would suggest that you have a 20/60 grind.  If you measure around 25 degrees, then you'll have a 25/65 grind, which will give you quite a "buppitabuppita" idle.  The next one up is 30/70, which would make driving in traffic annoying.

Rob
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« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2018, 08:35:42 PM »
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Thanks .. again very informative
That's for later .😢 Yeah it's a B block.
Makes me think I can do this.
Hopefully I will get the grind measurement.
I asked for a mild grind.

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« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2018, 06:42:51 PM »
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Iíve looked into it for my engine, getting the head done with 202 valves and VL/Nissan 3ltr outer valve springs. I was told that a good mild grind for the cam was 65/25.
Jim
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« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2018, 06:53:13 PM »
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I think that's what I asked for Jim.
Here is a picture of the seal as I have taken it out.



I think that the cut needs to be a bit cleaner?

Question for Lako who bent his front engine plate when he dropped his.. well it doesn't really matter what happened😂😐. He can explain but is it cast or pressed. Can you straighten it with a hammer ??
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« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2018, 10:31:25 PM »
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As Rob said in his responses, you need to cut them flush with a sharp stanley knife or similar for a neat cut.
The engine plate is pressed, so it should be able to be straightened. If not,I have a couple of spares if you need one.
Jim
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« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2018, 09:57:03 AM »
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Nick,

Were the fraying bits on the seal caught between the block and rear main bearing cap?
And is this the seal half that came out of the block, or the bearing cap?
What's the other half like?

So many questions . . .

Rob
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« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2018, 07:26:37 PM »
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That's the seal from the block
This is the seal from the main cap


Got a gasket set and now soaking the bearing seals.
Have also bought 2 NOS seals . The first ones will be a trial run.
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« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2018, 08:11:55 PM »
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Nick,

It won't be hard to do a neater job on the rear main bearing oil seal than that . . .

Rob
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« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2018, 09:59:26 PM »
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I have noticed that the bottom bearing cap protrudes past the piston retainer on the front piston is that ok???

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« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2018, 10:44:36 AM »
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Nick,

Yes.  That's by design.  The ends of the bearing shells protrude slightly above the mating faces, so that when you tighten the cap up, the bearing shells are locked tightly in place.

There's a proviso though - you should be able to push the bearing shell "home" into the big end with your thumbs, and it should sit there, slightly compressed.  In motors that have been driven very hard, the bearing shells stretch and go oval.  In this condition they just fall out of the conrod or big end cap.  This affects red motors more than greys, but you need to watch out for it.

The photo suggests that your bearings are in very good condition though.

Rob
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« Reply #75 on: January 14, 2018, 06:19:09 PM »
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Thanks Rob
That's the only one on the front cylinder. ( is that 1 or 6 ). The rest of them are flat.
Yes the bearings are new.

What is the best way to cut around the teeth on the rear cap?
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« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2018, 06:21:26 PM »
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« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2018, 08:14:06 PM »
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Nick,

That's the most frustrating part of a rear main bearing oil seal installation.

A scalpel, or a Stanley knife, or a box cutter - with a new blade.  And a Paddle Pop stick.

After crowding the seal into the groove, cut the excess off flat, a a couple of millimetres proud of the top of the teeth.
Then hold the Paddle Pop stick up against the inner surface of the seal so it doesn't push out of the groove, while you make a horizontal cut flush with the surface of the cap, and a vertical cut flush with the side of the teeth.  Pick the cut-off bits of seal away, and repeat the vertical and horizontal cuts until the seal is trimmed away.  You can leave the seal sitting a little proud above the surface of the cap.

Similar deal for the "step" in the cylinder block, although you won't need the Paddle Pop stick.

Change the knife blade when you suspect it's getting blunt; and take your time.  If you get the sh**s with it, walk away and come back later.  With care and patience, you'll get it right first time, and you won't need the second seal.

Rob
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« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2018, 07:21:28 PM »
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Thanks Rob
I have just done a trial run with the old seal. The nos ones haven't arrived and I'd rather wait till they arrive and fit them. The others from the gasket set are still soaking.


Man those things are hard to cut. I used a scalpel and I thought it was blunt 😐
Do I cut out the middle bit between the teeth?


How's that look?
Nick
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« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2018, 10:21:11 AM »
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Nick,

That looks as good as it can be.  You can cut the seal off so it sits slightly proud (~1 mm max) of the rear main bearing cap's mating face too.
And no, definitely no, do not cut out the part of the seal between the teeth on the bearing cap.  If you do that, you'll leave an eighth-inch gap in the seal, and it will leak worse than before.

Rob
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