hr wishbones

[waynos]

having trouble with camber on hr front end .read earlier may be hd wishbones.just wondering if hd ever came out with ball joints,but dont believe so.please prove me wrong so i can get this thing regoed and get to a meeting.cant wait! 

[FC427]

 HD sure did come out with a ball joint front ends the early ones had king pins I have found that a lot of the wish bones have deflected over the years and are not to the original factory length between the centre or the inner lower controll pin  and the center of the ball joints we had a jig at a shop I worked at years ago to check the length CRS also quotes the correct measurement for this in there V8 fitting instructions . If all else fails I have a new Wish bone you can measure  to know what that is FC 427

[colt]

As per a previous post, HR wishbones are 1/2 inch longer than HD ball joint wishbones. Between mounting centres. ALL HR wishbones have HR stamped under them. I changed from HD to HR wishbones a while back & fixed my camber problem straight away.
Colin

[FC427]

Colt I have read the previous thread on this subject and can you tell me how you know for sure that the HD is 1/2 shorter than the HR lower wishbone and that your wish bones were not bent??? or is it just because the part number is different Thanks Mark

[colt]

Mark, I can't say for sure that my HD wishbones were not bent. Both bent the same amount? When measured up the same way the HR wishbones were 1/2 longer where indicated. I have also now proved this on an EH which had 1 of each wishbone. Changing the HD to an HR fixed the guys problem straight away. ( The work was done by a very well respected Holden mechanic in Canberra & it blew him away when we proved it a 2nd time.) We have now got an HD nut here who wants to do the same swap as he can't get enough neg. camber.
Colin.

[FC427]

Hi Colin I have a new old stock  HR wishbone and I am getting a loan of a N/O/S HD wish bone in the next day or so I will measure them up and put this one to bed >If I send you a couple or shots will you put them on for me as I don't know my way around this computer very well if that is cool ? can you email your address to me at fc427@beagle.com.au and I will send then off to you as soon as I have measured them. FC427 Mark

[waynos]

thanks heaps guys you are a wealth of information my old man generally knows everything about real holdens and i had to prove him wrong,would anyone know where to get some as i've been trying to get em and all the bastard wreckers wanna sell me the whole front end.you guys are legends thanks

[colt]

Mark, I'm afraid my computer skills are the same as yours. I'm sure 1 of the guys will post them for you.
Colin

[mcl1959]

I have a pair of HR wishbones if you need them. I want $50 plus postage for them. I am in Hoppers Crossing Victoria so you may want to check postage as they are fairly heavy items. I have checked and they both have "HR" stamped on them.

Ken

[FEHOLDEN]

gidday all

My understanding is that all wishbones are the same from hr to hg.I am about to fit ht discs including wishbones onto a hr crossmember for my fe.Will this be a problem?

Thanks in anticipation,


Denis

[mcl1959]

I don't think so

HR are a little like HK wishbones (can't confirm if they are the same or different) but HT and HG wishbones are attached differently to the earlier ones.

Ken

[FC427]

I now have a N/O/S HD lower wish bone and a N/O/S HR lower wish bone I will measure them up and post my findings the only visable difference is the HD has the top lip near the steering stop rolled down and the HR is just flat but can not detect any other visable differences  FC427

[waynos]

i've been speaking to some old holden wreckers and they tell me they're the same length and it's my stub axle thats wrong not sure what i've got as i bought an unfinished project.donT wanna waste my money on stuff i dont need.hopefully as we wanna put this to bed someone can rest this in peace.most of it looks like hQ calipers etc.thanks for the input guys
 

[ACE]

Hey waynos,
A lot of old wheel alignment workshops had a tool that would cold bend the stub axles to get the correct camber while on the alignment machine.
Regards ACE 

[waynos]

thanks ace but I'm metal fabricator and messing with cast steel changes the grain structure.to me stuffing with a front end is ludicrous.wanna do this properly.everyone  i speak to tells me something different and now i'm lost .someone reckons i need hr stubs trying to sell em for $195 is this feasible.igot hk,t,or g discs maybe Qy or later calipers.shimmed as far as possible 3 mills from hitting the shock mount and still 5 mills out of level so neg camber is not possible.stub axles seems very much the prob to me.could get longer bolts grind back shock mount but surely someones had to overcome this prob in the past.dont think engineer would like it too much grinding back front ends or bending stubs  hey

[ACE]

Hi waynos,
I've sent you a p.m with the phone number of a local wheel alignment specialist.
Regards ACE 

[FC427]

Have just measured the wish bones up and from my measurements the HR is longer than the HD by 204 thousands of an inch [roughly 4.5 mm] but I am pretty sure that there would have been some discreptency in manufacture but how much I would be only guessing . Wayne there may be an easer solution to you dilemma , I have fitted extenders to the top ball joint that actually lifts the top wishbone 50mm higher so the top wish bone is in a better position for wheel alignment they are engineer approved and I have had them on my Ute for the past 5years and my car handles great, even at speed and no problems with wheel alignment I use HZ stubs with a 297mm Commodore disc rotors and 4piston calipers with 17'' wheels and a rear mounted rack and pinion steering so I have diverted a fair bit from the standard HR, and all is well . FC427

[mcl1959]

Waynos, You should not have to mess with your front end to get correct camber results. Literally thousands of early Holdens prior to HR have been fitted with HR front ends and have had correct wheel alignments done. I have had 4 or 5 cars over the years with HR front ends and never had an issue with camber.
I have seen bent stub axles but it would be a bit of a stretch if both your stub axles are bent the same, the story on bent wishbones sounds feasible as well, but once again - are they both bent to the same dimensions?
The different length of HD and HR wishbones is the most logical reason for the difference - why would GMH go to the trouble to mark the bottom of the wishbone with "HR" if not for the reason that they should not be used on a HD?
BTW HK to HZ stub axles are all the same dimensions and the kingpin inclination angle is the same as the HR stub axle - so they are interchangeable onto the HR front end without camber of caster problems, however the steering arm position is different so Ackerman angle is upset a bit. The closest way to get the steering angles correct when using Later stub axles is to use the HK T G steering arms - not the HQ-Z ones.

Ken

[FC427]

I should have also included I Had no problems with my wheel alignment before I added the extensions to the ball joint they are designed to lower the roll center of the front end and to improve handling  they are manufactured by Tubular Suspension the same people that make the stainless steel & mild steel tubular front wish bones for most model Holdens. What I did notice was after I had fitted the extensions that it was necessary to remove shims to get the wheel alignment right  FC427

[waynos]

thanks heaps fc427 this has been doing my head in.been wanting to ask you about the spacers but haven't had time.just wondering how much they are? maybe i should just get those wishbones off ken.painting my baby at the moment but need to fix the prob asap.i'm bloody itching to get it registered.was thinking about making my own but figured the engineer in st georges basin (nowra)might knock it back.has anyone dealt with him.spoke to him a while back and he seemed pretty cool.ken you legend $50 sounds too cheap.never going to a wrecker ever again