all holden day

[coolaride]

just got back from the 5th victorian all holden day. overall a very professional day with a good turnout of cars from stock to modified , old to new and many nice fe`s and fc`s. so congratulations to all involved.    one thing i dont understand is the judging . are these judges on the day professional, who judge other car events like nationals ? and what is a car judged on ? is it originality , interior or paint job ? or is it luck or even who you know ?     please help me understand  regards coolaride...  

[HRDivivan]

Hi Coolaride,
                "Many moons ago" judging courses were run by the Hot Rod Association as well as the Vic Street Machine Assoc., and this is where the Vic All Holden Day judges are from.
  Most have judged shows for up to 10 years or more...
My concern is the fact that no-one I've talked to within the Hobby motoring fraternity, including the AOMC can give me any kind of guidelines to how to judge or who runs courses on judging.
  If anyone who reads this has any kind of info that could help me give some idea of what judges look for in a vehicle so I can help others who would like to know where their car needs attention to be competitive in the judged arena please email me at garythorpe@bigpond.com.au
  Thanks for bringing up the topc !

[RET]

Re Gary's comments, I'd dearly love the information about judging guidelines and courses too.  Please email and/or post it here.

cheers
RET

[air-chief]

G'day HRDivivan
You say that the judges for Vic All Holden Day come from the Hot Rod Association and the Vic Street Machine Association. From my experience with these sort of Club/Associations, they deal with cars (old & new) that have been modified.  
I wonder if these people really have an understanding of what original class is all about? Can they pick a car that has had all the original fittings used( i.e bolts, brakets, clips & parts) or are they just looking for something that looks original but as they don't really know they just presume?

The All Holden Day is turning into a very very professional event, however I feel that the judging side of it could really do with an overhaul.

[HRDivivan]

Hi Air Chief,
               I'm not saying that their origins mean they don't know stockies... as I said they've been judging for some time.
 I'd like to see more of us able to make ourselves available to judge or be able to at least help those who'd like to show their cars competitively.
I know plenty of people that see judging as a complete mystery, let to try and work out why the other guy beat them without any guidance as to how they can improve their vehicle.
We took Michelles car to a "Concourse d'elegance" a few years ago and nearly fainted when we received a complete score sheet giving the scores of ALL competitors in EVERY section including the scores of each vehicle in each assessable area ... so we could see where we came, and what areas we would need to improve on (in their eyes anyway) for next time...
Practically every other show we've been to you never hear get any feedback at all.
Lets open up this area of our hobby !
GT

[RET]

G'day HRDivivan
You say that the judges for Vic All Holden Day come from the Hot Rod Association and the Vic Street Machine Association.

Hey there Air-Chief,

I think what he means is that the AHD judges all attended the courses held by either of those Associations.  And I think that's fair enough - that's talking about the theory of judging, rather than the specifics of hot/not, originality etc, which the judges chosen for an event are expected to be well versed in.

Having said that, transparency is the thing here.  Even if we can't have access to every entrants scores (although I reckon that's a bloody good idea), at the very least the CV of the judges should appear in the programme, so you know the calibre of the people judging your car.  I have been to shows (I think the ACT AHD was one) where this happens.

Hope that helps,
RET

[now]

On the subject of ALL HOLDEN DAY's.
What is the general perception of the judging for the NSW ALL HOLDEN DAY??
Does "Sponsor Judging" over come the pain of individual "Quality" Judging??? Or does this inflame the matter. ALL Responses APPRECIATED.
Steve
Have you visited OUR website yet??

[mcl1959]

I have been involved in a number of shows as a judge and you are correct in assuming that the judges are not really well versed in what is a correct part or not.  This is left to scrutineering to decide or in the case of very close points between 2 cars - some "experts" may be called upon.
Essentially judges look for cleanliness, quality and detail.
Judges have to put aside the fact that they may like blue cars better than red cars, or modifieds rather than stockies in order to get an unbiased perception.  They must also learn to ignore fancy displays, fences, mirrors and other smoke signals which are set up by the owner to impress the viewing public.  These make no impression on a good judge.
If you want to score well, have quality work done, ignore no detail when reassembling and above all when the car is presented, make sure that EVERYTHING is clean.  All I have to see is some oil marks on an engine, or dirt in the carpets and points are deducted.

Hope this helps      Ken

[HRDivivan]

Hi Steve,
            you asked ... haha ...
Personally I'll take my chances with paid judges any day.
Sponsor or people choice judging is way too unpredictable...

Hey Ken,
how'd it take you so long to find this place !?  haha
Great to have you on board... and quality comments... thanks
GT

[RET]

On the subject of ALL HOLDEN DAY's.
What is the general perception of the judging for the NSW ALL HOLDEN DAY??
Does "Sponsor Judging" over come the pain of individual "Quality" Judging??? Or does this inflame the matter. ALL Responses APPRECIATED.
Steve

In my opinion, by trying to please everyone, they please no-one.  Our club used to sponsor a trophy at the AHD, but no longer do so.  Rather than re-explain why that is, I've pasted the content of our letter to the AHD organisers here.

The Secretary
All Holden Day Limited
P.O. Box 5517
WINDSOR NSW 2756


Dear Sir,

Congratulations to you all on another successful All Holden Day.  Thank you for your recent invitation to attend the Annual General Meeting.  Unfortunately, none of our executive will be able to attend on that evening.  It is for this reason that we are writing to you, to express our concern over the method employed by the organisers in adjudicating the final trophy winners.

As you will no doubt be aware, our club has sponsored a trophy each year since the introduction of Sponsor-only awards.  Having delegated the responsibility of choosing a vehicle to a group of our members, it was extremely vexing to be sent out to choose yet more cars, because our choice had already been selected by another sponsor.  Without taking anything away from the vehicle that ultimately received our trophy -  it was a well presented vehicle - but it was also our fourth choice, and not the vehicle our delegates believed the most desirable car of the day.  Based on the number of sponsors that were called up to re-select vehicles, it is fair to presume that a significant proportion of the trophies went to vehicles other than that intended by the sponsor.

Unfortunately, we don’t have the answer.  As organisers of a national car show ourselves, we are keenly aware of the problems inherent in one or two vehicles taking out all the trophies - it is always better to see a wider distribution of winners.  We would like to suggest that perhaps each sponsor could choose a model or model group from which they will select a winner.  This will stop every sponsor from choosing the same car from the entire pool.  Of course there are equitable distribution issues with this scheme, particularly if the two best cars on display are both EHs, the only HJ is a bush-basher, and you have only one trophy for each model.

Whatever the decision, being sent out into the blazing sun at 3pm to try and pick a car that no-one else will have already selected is not the best method.  So for this reason, we will not be sponsoring a trophy at the 15th All Holden Day.  In place of sponsorship, we will be happy to make a donation of equivalent value to AHD Limited towards the event.  And we are looking forward to participating next year.

Holden Together,



Richard Thomas
Secretary
FE-FC Holden Car Club of NSW inc

[now]

I am glad that SOMEONE is as passionate about All Holden Day (NSW) as I am, regardless of opinions about various "Activities" at AHD, there is very little passion. In the 12 months since the website (http://www.ahd.oldholden.com) went live, there has been more than 6000 hits. Yet this is the FIRST TIME anyone has provided real feedback. DONT STOP NOW!!!
I like Ken's comments about presentation. Presentation is probably the single most important element in my limited experience, and I cite a very good example of this. There is an Annual Street Machine show near Rouse Hill in NSW. At the show there are many varients of Street machines, from Rice burners, to Muscle cars, 9 second drag cars and low riders - IE. most elements of the sport were represented. In one corner of the show sat an early model Corolla coupe. It was freshly painted and had mags on it. It was in a position that people could think that it MAY not be an exhibition vehicle. You get the idea. I approached the vehicle to find one of the most HIGHLY DETAILED vehicles that I have seen for a long time. Great trim, An even coat of paint (Or two!) and simple chrome wheels, lots of detail in the engine bay, even bolts were cleaned and detailed. The brakes were standard looking, but once again clean and tidy. This was probably the car of the show for my money: Simple yet you could see the TIME and EFFORT that had been invested in the car. No Huge 22" mags, Brembo brakes, switch paint or $15,000 stereos here. LOTS of elbow and dedication and a decent bit of planning and focus.
I thought not much more about the car after the show, until I bumped into a friend that was an entrant at the show in his (With all due repect) ruff and tuff drag car. We were chatting about the show and things and he commented that the corolla had won a trophy; "Have you seen it?'... "No, But corolla's shouldn't win trophies (Blah Blah Blah!)"
It beat some of the Summernats winners PURELY for it's detail, and in my opinion, deservedly so.
The moral is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. SOMEONE has to establish some clear and simple judging AND scrutineering guidelines to establish a base for ALL shows.

Personally I dislike "Sponsor Trophies" as the ONLY method of judging, however, given the lack of support from the Holden Community in the running of the NSW AHD, there will not (I assume) any change in the future.

PLEASE COMMENT!!!!
Steve