Red 6 to grey three speed in FC

[MR59FC]

Hi Guys

After some consideration i think I'm going to replace the grey motor in my FC to a red to give it a bit more go. As I'm wanting to keep the car column shift with bench seat what in your opinion do you think would be the biggest motor i could bolt up to the original gearbox? Or are there any other options, as i don't really want to chop the body up. I now have a HR disc brake front and diff to fit in as well. Any help appreciated.

Also how do you get in contact with members if they are offering something for sale?


Thanks.

[mcl1959]

202 will go fine, don't over work the box and it will be fine

Just respond to a sellers post or send a pm (click the icon which displays personal message)

Ken

[FC427]

When I had my first FC in the 70's it had a 149 and stock gearbox and there were no problems every other FC  I owned had a bigger engine and I found the gear boxes just didn't last with the extra HP and Torque .......FC427.....

[weddo]

We used to sort of "race" them back then, but I bet you are a bit lighter on the pedal these days FC427 just like I am

regards

Weddo

[FC427]

Weddo lighter on the pedal never  I just build them not to break so easy these days ....If you really went easy on  it, it may last a while but if you plan to drive it like that you may as well leave the grey in .......FC427......

[mcl1959]

All my early FC's in the 70's had 186's with stock grey gearboxes and I would agree that if driven hard the gearbox will break or the box will jump out of first or the bearings will rattle to death - one of the three.
But if driven normally as most do nowadays (I said most, not all) then the combo will last for years if you start with a good box in the first place.
The original question states that the owner wants to retain the stock interior and not cut the body up, but just get a slightly more powerful engine than the grey. This is a good swap as I have said if you drive in a normal fashion.

I don't think the owner is interested in racing with a bench seat and column shift.
 
Ken

[FC427]

I still believe that the smaller red engines [138ci  149ci  161ci ] are more suited to this type of vehicle that is using the standard g/box and diff and will only enhance trouble free motoring ......FC427.......

[pedro]

Any red "engine" will fit up to the standard box you just need to change the spigot bush,use the clutch plate from the grey and move the engine mounts on the HR front end, but as FC427 and Ken said the boxes tended to stuff up with the extra HP, If you are serious about keeping the grey box you could always get it rebuilt and beefed up though.
                                                                Pedro

[MR59FC]

Thanks for your responses guys. I was thinking of a 179 out of an EH seeming that you also need an EH sump for this conversion. I will be getting the gearbox inspected/rebuilt as my car has not been registered for 20 Years and am sure it would need some work. Is there anything you can do to strengthen these gearboxes up? Or if i was to fit in a later three speed out of say a Torana would it fit without tunnel modifications?

Thanks Shaun

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

You're slowly opening a can 'o' worms here  once you start modifying things, nothing else fits or lasts.
A set of twin carbs, extractors and a cam should give your grey a bit of get 'n' go, cost a lot less time/money(?)/hassle than a red conversion too.

[ratbox]

stinky you also forgot look more period correct and kool



a little side note to the red motor thing, i would say i've just about driven every combo of red 6 motor gearbox size combo and really couldn't say you could get out of a 138 red powered car and into a 202 powered car and say OHH holy crap that went so much better than the other, i am talking stock motors here


also on taking it easy a mate of mine used to have a 10 second LH torana (same guy that built/owned dog 308 EK ute) that for quite a while ran an aussie 4 speed and when removed to be replaced with a top loader was still in good condition, it's all about how you use it not what you use

[MR59FC]

So what your saying Ratbox is that no matter what red motor i choose its not going to make no difference and the gearbox should be able to handle it as long as i dont go dumping the clutch everywhere! Will the power increase over a grey make it a worthwile conversion or go with what Stinky said and work the grey a little?

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Here's your answer 
http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5931
Colt from the ACT Club runs a triple carb setup on his FE and as I understand good power vs mileage too.

[mcl1959]

In terms of your question re strength of grey boxes - the FB EK box had a double row bearing on the main shaft which made it a bit stronger than the earlier gearbox.
If your grey is stuffed - it will be cheaper to go the red motor conversion because they can be picked up relatively cheaply in good order. A grey costs a significant amount of money to have rebuilt now - much more than a red.

Ken

[ratbox]

bigger motor in stock form would have more power/torque but not hugely noticable, another advantage i've found with reds they just seem to run smoother, no dumping clutch, slaming through gears in generall driving carefully
in the end it's up to what you want to do
also consider the costs of getting the red legal, depending on yor state there's engineers report and the associated bits required

[RET]

It matters quite a bit which state you're in - different rules apply.

If you're in NSW you would be well advised to stay under the 200ci limit, like a 179 or 186 (both better motors IMO than the 202 anyway). In NSW if you go to 202 you need to do additional modifications, like collapsible column etc.

On the other hand if you go 149 you don't even need to get it engineered at all, and don't need to do any other mods apart from the engine mounts. Anything above that and you need an engineer's report, plus electric wipers, seat belts, heater/demister and disc brakes at minimum.

Hope that helps.

cheers
RET

[MR59FC]

Hi Ret

Yes i am in Nsw. My car already has electric wipers and Smiths heater which i could connect to demist easily. If i put a 149 in with the HR disc front and rear would i have to get it engineered? I could go bigger in size and get engineered as i have everything for it except seatbelts which i could do. I would like to fit the HR front and rear regardless of what motor i put in.

Thanks Shaun

[FB_MAD]

Shaun,

I'm in NSW and I've got a standard 149 red in my FB which at sometime in its prehistory has been bored out to 167 cubes using 40 thou oversize 161 pistons and I'm running the standard grey 3 speed crashbox, 3.08 red diff centre and kingpin front end,brakes etc.I drive it with respect to its limitations..... read "old farts speed " and so far haven't had a problem.No clutch dump,donuts etc

Like Ret said, no engineer required in NSW for 149.I just got it blueslipped and went through the normal rego process.You are permitted a 15% capacity increase over maximum size factory engine option without an engineers certificate ( in NSW ) so that makes 149 an easy, cheap no engineer report conversion.Unfortunatley that negates the fitment of 161  without a engineer report as its over the 15% increase ( only just though ).

Am happy with the 149 and it's economy with 3.08 diff for the way I want to drive it.Parts are cheap and a lot more easy to obtain than grey engine parts.

My 149 cost me $50 and I did nothing to it other than regasket it,cleaned water jackets,new seals and thats it.

 If you put a HR front and rear in your car it's a non standard/factory option fitment so technically you would have to have it engineered but I'll bet there's a lot getting around with that combo that haven't been engineered.

Hope that bit of info helps.

[ratbox]

depending where you go it will need an engineers report for the HR front and technically rear aswell as it's a brake modifcation
in other words LEGALLY it will need an engineers report for HR front and rear no matter what engine/motor you use even a grey
like RET  said steer clear of 202 besides the other things you'll need collapsable collum and dual circut brakes 202's are crap anyway