MIG WELDER -SIZE DOES MATTER?

[Rabbitoh]

I am looking to buy one for Car restoration and need to determine the maximum current output I might need.
What is the thickest structural metal on an FE that could be encountered in a repair job?
Thanks,
R.

[Ed]

hey Rabbitoh.

size does matter.. depends what you want to weld now and in the future.

first rule. Disregard the number on the box... it's misleading.

second.  look at the "duty cyle" of the machine.

eg  a welder with 30% @ 130amps means it can weld 3 mins out of every 10 at 130Amp power.

the thickest metal you are likely to encounter on an FE/FC is approx 3mm. this is relatively thin and considered sheet only.  this would not be able to do chassis work very easily.. say making a 3/4 chassis etc would be slow work and the penetration of your weld may not be sufficient if you push it beyond its rated duty cycle.

a machine with a good (over 30%) 110 - 130Amp duty cyle would be sufficient for sheet.

if you can afford a machine with higher duty then go for that.

remember to buy a good set of gloves
good welding helmet
spatter and/or nozzle guard

features to look for include.

good range of current adjustment settings
nice long leads
regulator included (or not).
good solid feed rollers

best gas for doing light sheet in mild steel would be "ARGOSHIELD LIGHT"

HTH

Cheers

Ed

[Rabbitoh]

Much appreciated Ed, Exactly what I was after.
R.

[Brad]

Hello Rabbitoh
                   I have a liquid arc  170 ti (Lincon) Aussie built  2 year guarantee , about 160 amp and it welds jap panels and  up to 6 mm no worries, cost about $1200 new with all the gear. Even the wife reckons it was money well spent and has paid for itself twice over.
 I used to have a cheap (Italian built) 120 amp and had nothing but hassles with it , so IMHO I would go with something a tad bigger than what you think you would ever need.
Buy quality and it will serve you well and  if and when your finished with it you can  always sell it for a good price.
       Brad.

[Addo]

To bad your not in Sydney, I have a Cigweld 250 for sale 240 volt. I have Three welders but only want two the others are migomags. Not bad units worth looking at and not that bad on price.
I might whack it in the for sale section some one local might be looking for one as well.
It would make you cringe but I just threw out a esab 180. couldn't give it away. It was an old unit and three phase but it did work. It's in the scrap bin out the side  of my workshop. :-/

[SRVLIVES]

To bad your not in Sydney, I have a Cigweld 250 for sale 240 volt.

I am, but there may be too many bloody temptations out your way!

[Ed]

                 
 I used to have a cheap (Italian built) 120 amp and had nothing but hassles with it

yep me too... what a POS those Italian welders are.

I have a MigOMag now.

[fastjbav6]

I'm in the market for a mig welder. i'm thinking either Lincoln 170 or Cigweld Transmig 165.
Does the gasless mig perform better than the one on gas?
I know the gasless flux core welding wire is more than 3 times more expensive than gas welding wire.
I've seen disposable gas bottles that you can buy at Repco for $30.00, about the size of a small 0.9kg fire extinguisher that are used with a special matching regulator for $50.00.
Anyone have any experience with these and how long would the gas last?
I intend to use the mig for panel work, exhaust and welding steel up to 6mm thick.
Thanks in advance.

Regards Seb

[Ed]

Seb,

if you're doing serious welding forget the disposable bottles.. I think Leon was going through these at an enormous rate on his wagon.

I would also use gas.

Had a go of a Lincoln 170 and it was pretty nice, the only thing annoying i found on the model i was using was the LCD display.  couldnt just look at the settings at a glance.

Cheers

Ed

[fccool59]

I have one of those crappy italian machines, its a 160 sip, the disposable gas bottles cause too much anger, dissapointment and stress, you try and conserve gas all the time and they keep running out half way through a job and cost a fortune for the tiny amount of gas they hold, I finally got a account with boc and now my life is more stress free, I bought a reg for $2 from the markets with no guage, it was in a $2 box at one of the tool stores, it has a slight leak but the cylinder has heaps of gas so I am not worried, I am still getting used to not spending $30 - $60 a week for disposable cylenders.
The mig gave constant dramas for the first 6 months but after bodgeying everything up it now is more reliable than when new, the feed system wich was crappy weak plastic broke a few times and is now full of bits of metal and glue and feeds perfect. the hose is pretty crappy to, you have to try and keep it fairly straight when welding and try to avoid getting it kinked, if you look at the better welders they have a nice hose made for work were as the italian ones have a hose that just does the job if you are carefull with it.
I got my mig for $600, it usually sells for $699, there was a mig at boc at the time for a few hundred more that looked like a much more reliable and easy to use machine.
I use a electronic auto mask, it was about $130 on ebay but now you see them as low as $70 and it makes learning much easier and reduces the risk of forgetting to cover your eyes. for gloves I use the $4.99 ones at bunnings wich are long gardening gloves, there are welding ones for $10 but they dont seem to have much advantage.
I use 0.6 wire from gasweld wich is only $9.90 a roll and seems to work well, dont buy wire from supercheap or bunnings, its to dear and the last one I had kept jamming up.

[utey]

Which is the better size wire for panel work .6 or .8?
I have been using .8 but have a feeling the smaller size would be better?
Also is it better to butt or lap weld I have a air flange tool and use that but think I may be making more work for myself? (weld continuously outer and tack inner surface)
Any thoughts?

Nick

[Addo]

.8 is most widely used in the panel repair industry, never used .6 someone who has compared both may lean one way or another. What ever works for you and your machine is the way to go.
The panel crimper is a good tool but it all boils down to what you are trying to achieve. If your going for the unmessed with original look Butt welding would be the go so you can finish both sides of the weld so it looks good in and out. If you want a structurally sound and effective job the crimper is excellent but, and I mean "BUT", the most important thing when welding panels, particularly outer panels is heat control. I've seen many a door destroyed by a well meaning guy with a mig welder putting half skins on. The distortion or shrinkage caused by welding should be addressed as the weld is being done. Use a hammer and dolly to gently stretch the metal either side of a mig weld as the job is being done and keep a cool wet rag handy to minimize the heat ,if you start loosing shape stop and address the problem before moving on this will avoid the tin and a half of body filler you'll need to rectify the problem later.
I'm a bit old school and on any of the older cars if I can gain access to behind the panel I butt weld with the oxy. You can directly work the weld without any build up of weld material and it looks great in and out. Mind you it takes experience to get a good result and not for the novice to attempt.
Any structural work the heat factor usually isn't an issue(floor pans etc) and again depends on what your trying to achieve. I like the crimper and mig for that sort of work.
What has to be kept in mind is that when the steel is heated red hot it expands but when it cools it contracts more than it expanded, hence the technique of heat shrinking. Any weld will pull or shrink the metal around it. The trick is to minimize this or control it.
Don't know if it helped but said it anyway.
Addo

[Rabbitoh]

....
The panel crimper is a good tool but...

As that fish n' chip shop lady once said, Please explain?

[Ed]

panel lapping tool.

makes a ridge on the metal edge so you can overlay the joining piece on top and the surface is flush.

very handy but not essential.. great for things like floor pans.

I have a hand lapper but find it laborious to use.

Cheers

Ed

[simins]

Hi guys thought i might add my two bobs worth to the MIG welding debate. 17 years ago i bought myself an SPI MIGMATE 120 from a panel beater mate. It sort of welded ok, after i fixed the wire feed repeatedly. It never performed really well , the welds seemed to only sit on top of what ever i was welding. I am only a self taught hobby welder. So i thought it was just me, as i would hate to blame my tools. It was my birthday recently and i received a new toy ,A Cigweld 220 mig welder running 0.6 wire on Argo shield light. I am now having a ball with it. It cost me good dollars but its well worth it. My mig welding ability improved instantly, i think it comes down to right size and quality tool for the job. PS Anyone want to buy an SPI Migmate 120
catch you later Simins

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Just dragging this one back to the top.
I have (had?) a cheapie welder that I bought at least 10 years ago. I always thought I was just an average welder as sometimes weld penetration and spatter were dodgy at the lower settings.
Anyway, I inherited a repaired Cigweld unit and tried it out on the weekend...... Chalk and Cheese I was running a smooth consistent bead with good penetration straight off the bat.
If you are in the market for a new welder, spend the extra dollars and buy a name brand.

[fccool59]

yep, i think everyone learns the hard way by buying a cheapo itallian made machine first.
like me.

[Rabbitoh]

Not everyone....
Seeing how I started this one off, I'll finish her for now. Took everyone's good advice, avoided the 'paisano' machines and went with a Magmate Pro 180 from Boc Gases. Never welded before in my life, but got great results from the get go.