G'day fellas,

I know this isn't FE/FC related however,

Have bought my son a HQ Holden panelvan, near complete, 6 cyl 202 red motor and 3 speed column manual.

It's missing the "rat trap" clutch mechanism and pull rod up to the clutch pedal. Also need the brake and clutch pedals as well.

Strange to say that I can find a couple of V8 rat trap setups out there but no 6 cyl ones as yet        .

They used to be as common as bums years ago.

Pretty sure HJ's had the same setup as well.

So if anyone has the complete "rat trap " clutch setup AND/OR brake and clutch pedals can you let me know with your contact details and a price in mind.

Thanks in advance for any help, I'm sick of pushing the bloody thing around to mow underneath.

Cheers.

Why not grab a Navman or similar and check that the speedo is reading correctly first before reaching for the spanners and trolley jack

Mick

  Very good advice there  . I am running a 3.08 with 185/60/13's and I can definately say that in top gear ( 1:1 ) your speedo will be reading incorrect relative to actual speed unless you have installed the correct speedo driven gear for the 3.08 and 13 inch combo.

 A  GPS is a good way of checking for speedo error.

My engine is a 149 and I can't really say that it is over revving with a 3.08. and 13's.

I've just gone to 14 inch  Tasman rims and 215/60 tyres and it's approx the equivalent  (at 60 mph engine revs )of going down to a 2.78 if I was still using the 13's.

HP means it's a 179, the engine number prefix will tell you as well .The pic of the tappet cover shows a very faded 179 sticker. Nothing high performance about it although it was a high performance version I guess compared to the smaller 149 which had no engine size embossed in the block.A red with no cast in number in the block is a 149.The engine number prefix will also confirm a 149.

The sump appears to be a HD/HR so it's probably  from a HD originally I'd imagine.EH sumps are different and if you are fitting a red into a pre EJ Holden you will need an EH sump to install.

Throw up the engine number prefix and we'll be able to tell you what it's from originally.

350 crank is large journal ( LJ ) and will fit a large journal 327 making a 350 ci engine ( 350 and 327 share the same 4 inch bore ).

There were also small journal ( SJ ) 327's as well, majority of 327's are SJ cranks.

From memory ?? the LJ 327's were only around the 1968 era when ( again, from memory ) Chev went to large journal on all their engines with exception of the 400 block which used unique sized journals.

Prior to '68 all 327's ( and other size engines ) were small journal ( from memory )

Not sure ?? whether a LJ 350 crank can be machined down to fit SJ blocks ??

Years ago you could buy special mains bearings to fit SJ cranks into LJ blocks.

Do you have a small journal 327 or a large journal 327 would be a starting question to see if the 350 crank will fit as is, or will need machining ( if machining a LJ crank down to SJ size is possible )

307's and 327 cranks are the same ( large journal 3.25 stroke ).

Hope that helps, and isn't confusing  ...... maybe I should type it out again 

G'day Jason you'll also need to change the clutch plate to a grey one and check the spigot bush in the back of the crank to make sure it's the right one for the grey box.
                              Pedro

  Intially, with my 149 to grey box, I fitted an EH red clutch setup but wasn't happy with it so I wen't back to a grey clutch.There isn't much difference in the EH plate friction  facing area compared to the grey clutch plate friction facing.

The difference is really in that the diapragm spring isn't as strong in a grey clutch pressure plate as the red, so would probably slip with a higher capacity red, especially a modified one.

I haven't experienced any slippage problems with a grey clutch assembly behind my standard 149 ( 161 ) driving in the manner I do.

  Yep, can confirm that 149 will bore out to 161 cubes.I have 40 thou oversize 161 pistons in my standard 149 which now gives me 167 cubic inches.I am running a standard grey crashbox behind it in an FB sedan alaong with a 3.08 red diff centre and very happy with it.

No problems with rego as the 149 was passed as owner approved modification ( no engineer or other mods required ).

I drive like an old fart and don't abuse my car and the grey box handles the increased power.I even tow some ( at times ) heavy loads in a trailer with no dramas.

The gears in an EH box aren't any stronger than a grey box really and you'd be going to the trouble of fitting one with no real great strength advantage gained.

The all synchro 3 speed is stronger but requires floor hump mods in addition to other mods to fit ( similar to aussie 4 speed fitment ).

The grey crashbox will take the power output of the red motors in standard form if you look after it.It won't handle a higher capacity modified red and certainly will break if you abuse it or subject the box to abnormal loading.

This is the exact reason i build my own engines now.
 It is not rocket science. Building engines is not hard, all you have to do is read your FE FC manual and use common sense and ask people questions. I am self taught, and if you have ever done something for the first time you would realise that you go overboard double checking and triple checking to make sure you have done it right. I must admit, i was lucky to have very, very good people to ask advice. And when you have the first fire up, your heart is in your mouth, but once you overcome this, your chest comes right out and you are very proud of yourself. I remember taking my 350 chev for its first run down the 1/4, i was shitting myself thinking that something was going to go wrong. Then after a few runs, i was just like, how much can i squeeze out of this sucker, and from then on i have respected my engines but also used them for what they were built for, (to be revved). I have already given my latest Grey Motor a good working out and it is GROUSE.
 So my suggetion is for next time, that maybe have a go at it yourself and if you need any help, i would be more than happy to give you a hand in whatever way i can.
 Cheer Scotty

     That is pretty much spot on Scotty, engines are relatively easy to do.All you need is a basic understanding on how an engine works, some common sense and a workshop manual to help you along and of course a good bunch of blokes on a forum   for those questions that are a bit sticky   .People would be surprised at what they can acheive themselves. And just like you said, triplicate checking and taking your time is very important.I've built heaps of all sorts of engines for myself as well as for customers when I was on the spanners and rushing the job and not measuring and checking things invites mistakes as  appears to be the case with Peter's grey and the previous builder.

I have also used Tasfreight with a towbar form Tassie with no problems at all.

Don't know if this Mob do insurance nor if they freight to Tassie but I've found they are a very cheap freight company and have heard from a few blokes that they are very good with parts that they have received.

http://www.e-go.com.au/home.do;jsessionid=B97FB86494BEE6B86056604FA373D732

I know a place in Tamworth NSW that can re-sleeve in stainless and supply new cups  for around  $50 each.

They will last longer than repro or NOS ones and it will be only you that will know that they are re-sleeved ones and not NOS ones.

I have some done by this place in my FB and they did a good job.

Unless you can get a wholesale price you will find repro ones will be dearer than $50 each and "if" you can find any NOS ones they will be dearer again.

Pedro you need to have everything that the donor engine had  including  line from fuel tank to charcoal  cannister.......FC427......

Yep,

Technically you do as FC 427 has said.

I have also been advised by a NSW RTA technical advisory section member that in some older engine re-fitment applications that working pollution control devices that are no longer available new from the OEM manufacturer don't have to be fitted if it can be demonstrated that the OEM manufacturer is unable to supply that part due to being no longer being manufactured.Most of these pollution control parts are deemed to be non working in second hand form after a set number of years so they do have a finite usable life.

Some GMH pollution control parts for 1980's engines are no longer available new anymore so that would not preclude that 1980's engine fitment to be knocked back for rego due to non fitment of unavailable pollution control devices.Of course this would vary between state to state and inspector to inspector as to their interpretation of "the rules".

If its of any help comparing different rolling tyre and rim combinations, the original 13 inch rims with crossplies had a 24 inch circumference.

I'm with Craig, 3.36 seems to be the limit with a grey especially with the original grey crash box as I find with the gearbox ratio's in the grey 3 speed taken into consideration and with these  differences between each gear, and any taller diff gearing than a 3.36 tends to be too wide for the engine to smoothly handle around town.

On the highway is different and you could ( maybe   ) stretch to a 3.08 but we don't always do highway miles do we and I think a grey with 3.08 would probably have to have a more higher throttle to maintain any given speed,therefore whilst revs would be down with a 3.08 you would have to maintain a higher throttle position and any fuel savings advantage with a 3.08 will be pretty much null and voided .

I have an FB sedan with standard 149 bored to 167 and 3 speed crashbox with 13's and 3.08 diff and I find the 3.08 is about the limit for my combo to smoothly handle around town driving but is very happy on the highway.

Modern tyres in 13 inch are usually around 22 inch ( 70 profile ) or so rolling diameter ( compared to the 24 inch R.D original crossplies ) and most blokes say that the 22 inch with 3.55 gives around the same revs and speedo accuracy as the original 24 inch tyres and 3.89 stock diff.

There are a few different ratio calculators out there and its fun to play with them.They'll give you revs versus speed with any given rolling tyre diameter entered, I'd put one up here but I can't bloody find the web address ATM but the one given above is a good one.

If you can get the 185/80's x 13  and they are in the rolling diameter of 24.7 as you said then that is near enough RD to the original combo so any change with that to either 3.55 or 3.36 will make a noticeable rev difference at a given speed.

You'l probably be looking around a 300 to 400 RPM drop with a 3.55 @ 60 mph and approx 600 to 700 rpm drop @ 60 mph with a 3.36 ( without working out on the calculator )

Hope this helps,

I have LC/LJ , HR , HQ "power steering ", and HJ manual steering arms here at home ( LC/LJ arms at a mates place ATM ).

The LC/LJ arms are 75 mm between the centre of the first bolt hole ( the closest one to the tie rod boss ) and the centre of the tie rod boss hole.

The HR arms are 120 mm from centre of first bole hole to centre of tie rod boss hole.

The HQ " power steering" arms are 90 mm from centre of first bolt hole to centre of tie rod boss hole.

The HJ manual arms are 120 mm from centre of first bolt hole to centre of tie rod boss hole.

The photo of FC 427 shows a HQ "power steering" arm ( third in from right, not a manual arm ) which is 90 mm bolt hole to bolt hole.

The HJ manual steering arm ( not shown in photo ) is pretty much identical to this HQ 90 mm "power steering" arm but is longer at 120 mm.

So the actual photo missing is the manual steering arm HJ, not the "power steering" arm.

  Just to clarify,

My above comment wasn't pointed at the questions and answers in this post, it was just a general reflection.

There is plenty written on this subject lately - this is why engineering standards were introduced.

Ken

Yep, to save some people from destroying themselves and others.

If you fit the bigger trans hump you shouldn't have to try an LC/LJ sump as you can use the EH sump and just raise the front engine mounts a tad higher ( say approx an inch ) to allow better steering-to-sump clearance and all should fit nicely.

You could also try an LC/LJ sump as they don't have the step in the pan that the EH sumps do.Although they do start to taper from about that area in you EH sump pic ( where it looks like someone has braze welded the sump) back toward the sump bowl.The LC/LJ sump bowl is at the rear much like the EH sumps.

Or.......

You could slice in half lengthways a 2 inch exhaust pipe and cut and weld in ( or braze weld ) to the sump in the position where the steering has rubbed on the eh sump previously.A 2  inch pipe sliced lengthways raises that area by an inch and shouldn't give you any crankshaft clearance issues.It would create an oil pooling area in that spot forward but shouldn't be a problem in normal driving with oil splashing around hitting the crank.

Or.........

Not really a "professional" modification but you could try heating and curving in that area with a ball pein hammer.Might give you at least a 1/2 inch curve in the sump for clearance.

Or...........



Try modifying the existing tunnel a bit to maybe raise the gearbox a little to gain some clearance on the steering to sump problem.Have heard of blokes that have modified the existing tunnel to accomodate bigger gearboxes without the need for replacing the tunnel completely.


Or.........

Replace the trans tunnel with a bigger one and move the mounts up higher.

Sorry fcv85l, didn't get a reply or PM from you, trans has been sold to someone else.

Another message sent fcv85l, don't know if my PM's are getting through or not

OK,

I'll send you a PM, look for it up near top of your page under "my messages".

I'll send you my contact details, but won't be home after 2.00 pm tomorrow and not home until around 8pm ish on Wednesday, or send me your phone number and I can call you at a time convenient to you if you like.