FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

by chance..

does anybody know the enigne numbers for Late 5.0l(4.9L) blocks which were cast with clearances for the 5.7L bottom end?

are there different no's for the 4.9L and 5.7L??

hoping not.

Cheers

Ed

Ed
       I don't know the prefix no's for those blocks but I would give C.O.M.E  race engines a call as they are pretty good with getting every extra HP out of holden v8's.
Glenn

Glenn,

I've discovered where to get brand new crate motors :-)

a 5.7 short motor may be just what the doctor ordered.

running some good compression, and balanced bottom end may cure my motor blues once and for all.

;D

Chev eater?
;)

Cheers

Ed

PS cant afford a COME motor, but did use one of their cams.
the motor I am considering uses the Harrop crank.

Ed,
     I believe its the VT and later blocks which dont need machining to accomodate a 355-383 crank.

The harrop gear is nice, but it is also quite pricey but all 355 kits seem to be...


Have you considered getting a standard 308 crank and getting it offset ground? this with a set of small journal 327 rods and +30 oversize will make a 330 stroker, these motors are extremely torquey and will actually outrev a 355.

When/if you decide to stroke it, what type of intake do you plan to run? im actually good friends with FLOWCRAFT ENGINEERING here in victoria. He has not long designed and manufactured his own twin throttle manifold that looks absolutely gorjus!!  Dont really know if its what youd be after, but his manifolds are cheaper than all other twin throttle body setups out there, and it outflows them by something like 11%

just food for thought  :-X 8)

Hey Darcy,
I have considered the 330 offset ground crank however for little extra can have a 355 brand new, my current block needs work and it's just not financially viable.  
I can get a short motor with all the good gear at a pretty reasonable price so the 330 isn’t so appealing anymore once you factor in machining costs, balancing, new rods, pistons, bearings, bolts etc plus sleeving of the block or boring of a good second hand block.

The top end I have is good for street use, mild ported VN heads, with ports matched to a Harrop dual plane and a 1000cfm billet throttle body with a mild cam.  While it may not flow as well as a TTB set up it should have loads more torque in the 2000 – 3600 rpm range, where it will spend most of its time.  Coupled with a longer stroke it should make some good figures without the need to be revved… torque over outright power.

Still at the end of the day it’s no powerhouse and the rising cost of fuel has to be considered.. which favours just an ordinary 5.0L.

All I need to know is will the authorities notice if I use a late model clearanced block or not.
For speed and power nothing beats a bike….
Cheers

Ed

Is that a Canadian block?    ;D

no Canadian blocks here...

the VT block is genuine clearance cast for the 5.7L bottom end stronger casting.

the 5.0L and 5.7L share the same block.

I have found out the appropriate prefixes now.

Cheers

Ed

i might add, that the vt blocks were clearanced to fit a 355 crank as all HSV's and special orders were fitted with a C.O.M.E crank.(well atleast im pretty sure it was a come crank, may have been Harrop, but i doubt it...)

have you checked out COME racings new 383? dont think its what your lokoing for, but man its wild!!! ;D ;D

HSV VR  GTS 215kW was the first 5.7L,and they have always been Harrop cranks until the last at VT 220 kW model.

All these blocks since VR have clearance for the crank.

Cheers

AL

thanks for the info guys, I'm on the case..

while I'm on the subject of engine upgrades,

it has become apparent the 4 row radiator I am using just doesnt like to sit in traffic even in this mild weather.

I have thought about using an Electric water pump to help things along.

anybody have any expereince with these.. good or bad?

the theory sounds nice, higher flow at idle etc, less drag on the crank etc.

also alot cheaper than a new radiator.

opinions?  

Cheers

Ed

my brother runs one on his vk and the hq, he said theyre fantastic. he says he did have a day (42 degrees) when it got real hot. he said he turned the motor off for no more that 5 minutes and the motor dropped down over 100 degrees.

which type are you thinking of getting? the one with an external motor and the seperate belt, or a full electric one? the full electric ones are around $650, or the one that runs a seperate belt is about $130, i think vpw have them on their site.

what kind of fans are you running on it?

running a black flex-a-lite fan.  with an additional 10inch thermo on the front (which does nothing as it is too small - this was just picked out of the parts bin).

going to make a full shroud this week from fibreglass.

the radiator fan guard I had on it restricts flow I think.

poking around in the engine bay last night I think there may not be enough room for an electric water pump.

will try shrouding the fan first, then maybe put a 12inch fan on the front.

Cheers

Ed

Hi Ed.
Just browsing & noted your plan to use a shroud with a "Flex-Fan". Not a good idea as far as my experience goes.
I had that set up on my Monaro which ran a 350. It all LOOKED as if it should work, but with a big fat 4 core radiator & that hot (As in hot running) Chev, it would boil all the time I hit the road. Everything was checked & still did it. Finally, got my head around it, when realising what the flex fan actually did. The faster it revs, the flatter the blades go & that is where HP is saved. Less restriction.

With the shroud fitted, it actually created a flat wall of fan (For lack of a better way to described it) & stopped ANY airflow. That is what had me f**ked for so long. It was great in traffic, but when I hit the hwy, booooom, it always overheated. Ripped the shroud off & all was solved........apart from there being no protection from the fan & those buggers are sharp at a couple of thousand revs.

I bunged 2 little thermo fans on the front of the radiator that were of something like a Colt (Or another equally ridiculous car) & having a very limited space in that car, they were designed very flat. It worked a treat.
You would be surprised at how flat some of these fan set ups are. Very effective though.

Rob J

Hey Rob,

Interesting, I had a flex fan with ally blades but ditched it as it was crap.

replaced with the black plastic fan by flexalite with 90 degree blades.. very effective.

On the highway, it is great, sits on 170F all day long, in traffic it is less than ideal.

sits on about 195 almost 200F.

i will hop down to the wreckers today and scour about for some little thermo's.

did u run the thermos with an engine fan as well?

thanks for the tip.

Cheers

Ed

Ahhh, OK.
A Flexlite fan, with fixed blades, I get it now.
Mine was a really cool looking fan, with highly polish stainless blades. Looked great, but with the shroud, CRAPOLA!

I did end up running the twin thermos, with that flex fan, as it WAS good in traffic & once it got up & running, everything was cool....literally!

Look for the front mounted fans (That push air through, instead of pulling). Little front wheel drive cars, that have sideways mounted motors seem to be the best, as the don't have any fan to begin with. Mine came with brackets & all, that were a really easy task to modify & fit. I am sure it came of a Colt, but may have been a Laaser, or Mazda. Just didn't really note.
I also sourced a variable temp reader thingo (Mmm, correct name escapes me), that you could dial in where ever you wanted the fans to cut in. Really easy to use. I did have a few issues when I went travelling, as I had it hard wired, so it would fire up even if the ignition was off. Coming home at midnight into a campground & turning the car off, many a time the fans would fire up & buzz for around 15 minutes when everything else was quiet. Got in trouble over that :-[ . So you may wwant too take that into consideration.


Goodluck in the search. Car looks awesome, I don't think I have mentioned that before.

Rob J

Good how to article on Fan shrouds here Ed,
http://www.the-rumbler.com/fanshroud-1.html
Pretty good for a journalist! (Boris writes for Street Machine)

Thanks ROB, SRV.

Boris' articles are always funny.

nice shroud, simple and effective.

Cheers

Ed

Ed,
   re: overheating problems. On the fc sedan we had no engine fan and 2 thermos (which turned out to be some jap ones off an camira). The car was great on the highway, but as soon as you sit in traffic the guage crept up and up, 170f is quite good, ours ran around 180 on the run which is about right.

Is your radiator a crossflow or downflow? standard or tripple by-bass? ours now (havent got running yet) is a hq v8 radiator fitted with a tripple by-pass, and will have 2 10" fans, this will hopefully keep it cool this time round.  You can buy the fans pretty cheap from supercheap auto and places like that, they seem to work ok as weve got one on the vk, from memory they are $49.95.

Hey Darcy,

HQ type, fitted with a 4 row core, cut down by 1.5inches.
single pass.

am going to put on twin 12inch fans to pull around 3000cfm.

I may get the rad modified to triple pass too.

finally getting some time to sort out all these probs.

Cheers

Ed

Sounds like a good plan,
                                     I have a mate who has a hq style radiator in his Camaro, it ran really hot, couldnt drive longer than 15 minutes. So what he done was bought a set of AU-BA thermo's, they advertise em in just parts for something like $235, as soon as he fitted them the guage never went over 175f. Was thinking of going down this path but then we would have to move the oil cooler again so we thought bugger it....

anyways good luck with it,  ;D 8)

ohh also, there isnt any different between fans that pull the air or push the air, its just a matter of undoing the nut in the middle of the blade and turning it the other way round  ;) ;)

Just rang Norm at Aussie Desert Coolers, I think this coupled with the fans will beat my cooling blues.

the current rad I have would cool a Hot 6 pretty easily, but unfort not a mild 8.

Cheers

Ed

It's even easier if you just reverse the polarity.  :o

Hi.
Yes, I realise there isn't any difference in the Push or Pull type fans ::). My point was, the fans mounted in front of the radiator are usually a thinner profile, so it would beat his space restrictions. No use getting big arsed fans, if they don't fit ;)

Rob J

I didn't know that fans had arses  ???  So that's where that weird smell is coming from  ;D

.. Just an update on the cooling situation.

HQ cut down core, with ttrans cooler front mounted.

I made an alloy shroud to suit the 2 x 12" fans similar to Boris' one (the rumbler).

the engine fan (flexalite black) was removed and the fan and shroud set up to SUCK.  the performance of the fans sucked, IMO the engine fan alone was far superior.  there was a marginal improvement in stationary cooling ability, however cooling at over 60kmh was severely compromised with engine starting to overheat at speed.. this was a step in the WRONG direction. "Water Wetter" was used as well.

obviously the shroud and fans limited the ability of air to pass thru the core.  my guess was it created too much air pressure behind the core.  in addition the density of a 4 row core was too much for the twin 12 " fans.

what to do?  replaced engine fan and put fans in front of radiator to PUSH.

mounted trans cooler forward of the fans.

The push of air coupled with the pull of air behind the core generated by the engine fan works superbly.

at idle in traffic it does not go above 190F and most of the time sits around 180F (82 C).

on the freeway it sat around 180F the entire time.

Conclusion,
thermo fans when used as primary cooling fans is inefficient, or requires a shroud which does not restrict air flow at speed.

thermo fans are best used as supplementary fans to the main engine fan.

engine coolant temps decreased, but unsure if it was as a
result of cooling fans,
cooling fans and water wetter
or water wetter only.

I am not going to experiment by removing the water wetter.. it costs 25$ a bottle!

A shroud fitted to the engine fan side of the core will also improve efficiency.. perhaps this was all it ever needed anyway.

Cheers

Ed

An article on setting up a burnout car in SM done by one of the "legends" said he fitted a truck/tractor engine fan to his chebby to get more air through the radiator.

that would work, but could you imagine the noise!!

we put a BIG fan on the EH which has a warm 179, you can hear the fan noise long before you can hear the motor.

it keeps its cool but sounds like a windmill on a gusty day.

Cheers

Ed