FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

"HI"I have a hr front end in my ek ute, and what i would like to know is hj,hx,hz stub axles the same as hq ones, that will lower the front by 1".or even will they "fit", the hr ? thanks.

From memory the HQ front stub axles are the same as HJ,HX and HZ but don't know about the lowering bit you asked about.I've never done it but I suspect that the HQ-HZ stubs may fit HR but I'm sure someone out their will correct me if I'm wrong.I'd give Rod Hadfield at Castlemain Rod Shop in Victoria a call as he has been fiddling and making all sorts of conversions over the years and I'm sure you will get all the info you need. Good Luck, Terry.

The HQ stubs give a 1 inch drop, not sure about being the same as the later stubs though.
The Sept '05 edition of Aust Street Rodding has a full comparo of the holden stub axles and CRS stubs on holden front-ends

 "Thanks for the info, but i might wait to see if any body on here knows first before annoying them.it's just i can get hold of some hj/hz stubs, rotors and callepers.and hopeing they fit up the same as hq's with the 1'drop.    

I have WB stubs fitted to my HR frontend. HX should be same. [approx. 20mm drop]
                               Cheers Glenn

"thanks glenn" and would you know! weather hg hubs will go on them.thanks.

All stubs from HK to WB are the same, will fit into a HR with the correct steering geometry and will lower the car a bit less than an inch.
Rod Hadfield hasn't been at CRS for over a year and the new guy has just left as well.  Currently being staffed by some of the backroom guys.

The Australian street rodding article has so many errors it is not funny - we have written a response to ASR but who knows if it will get printed.

Ken

HG hubs will fit but they will look like cheese cutters compared to the HZ rotors.
                      Cheers, Glenn

There is only one good reason for fitting HG brakes to the front end, and that is because they have early stud pattern!
HQ to WB brakes, although better, will require running HQ rims which wont match the HR rear end.
There are ways round this by having blank HQ rotors drilled to early stud pattern but these are expensive.

Have I assumed correctly ?

Ken

I was just going to post on this very subject.

As one of my front discs needs replacing, will HKTG discs fit my HR front end?

Also, are FC rear drums really that fragile? Mine look like if you hit them with a hammer you'll punch a hole right through!

What drums will fit my rear end? Depending on my diff ratio (I may replace it) would it be easier to replace the whole rear axle assembly?

spot on ken" i thought if i use hq-wb stubs  with the hz alloy callipers,(hg hubs and rotors won't match up with hz callipers?) if thats the case looks like its the re-drilled ones, any idea on price to re-drill them?, and with the hz hubs do they widen the track any?what i'm trying to achieve is eventually a 2" drop by using the hz stubs(1"- and another 1" off a new set off standard springs;(don't like the h/duty 2"lowerd ones,(to-stiff) "aha" the things we do for just an extra 2". ;D--------cheers.  

HQ-HZ should all be the same stubs but HQ had cast iron calipers where the rest had alloy. You should be able to buy new blank HQ-HZ rotors from Hoppers Stoppers and they can drill them any pattern you want, including FE-HG but you must run 14" wheels minimum.

Can anyone ID Dave's 'Station Sedan' for me? :P :)

57 Chev.

No HG rotors won't run with HZ calipers.
HQ rotors drilled from blanks are not really cheap - about $180 each.

Ken

Yep.... was just a silly joke....  :-[

It used to be an FC but Stinky bought it from me and this is the replacement 57 Chev 210 4 dr wagon (with Belair strips). I am still into FC's just don't have one at present!

SRV, the HG rotors will fit on the HR stubs, but the calipers wont go on.  In order to run HG brakes, you need to replace the HR stub axles with the later ones.

Ken

thanks Ken, have purchased some Torana ones from Smithy to get me through.... seems the passenger front on my FC was run without the wheel for a bit and worn a big flat on the disc! :(

All stubs up to WB & Torana will fit the HR front end.
They all have the same tapper on the ball joints.
HZ & WB stubs have a different KPI angle giving lighter/easier steering on the original car.
Remember Radial Tuned Suspension badge on the HZ.
Torana stubs should not be used as often been read due to the Ackerman principle from memory. (steering angle on turns?)
As for fitting rotors, i would fit the rotor and caliper that suits the stub along with the rim. AS long as the rear rims are the same as the front.
Fitting HQ on, Torana or HK discs will change the front track measurement compared to the HR track.
Disc thickness and diameter are different.
I have disc rotor measurements of HK & Torana to compare to the HR if you like.
This will tell you how far out your track would be.
Hope this helps you out.

Regards Seb

HI seb you say that hz-wb have a different kpi do hq as well? as a lighter steering would not suit my project after i fit a hr power assist,  they are light enough.

Seb, do you have any documentation on HZ and WB stub axles being different to early stubs?  I believe they are not different.
Torana stub axles have the different KPI angle and introduce bump steer because the steering arm is positioned lower than the HR arm.   This is also true on the HQ stub axle but can be got around by fitting HK HT or HG steering arms.

CRS claim in a recent Australian Street Rodding article that HK steering arms are different to HT and HG steering arms.  I am not aware of the difference - does anybody know what difference there is?

Ken

Ken you've jiggled my brain.
The KPI angle is different on HZ-WB due to the upper control arm being in a different position to the HQ-HJ.
The stub itself should be the same.
The steering arm bolted to the stub on HQ's is shorter than the HZ, another reason why the HQ had heavy steering.
HZ steering arms were fitted to HQ's as a quick fix  to over come He-man arms.
Can't help on the difference of the HK,T & G arms.

Regards Seb

"Ken" if i use hz stubs&calipers can i use the hr steering arms or should i use ht-hg or hk ones? and with what tie rod arms?thanks

You should use the HK T G steering arms as this gets the tie rod end in pretty close to the right spot.  HR tie rod ends will fit.



Ken

thanks Ken" now i know what direction i'm going in for my front end anyway, i wont mention anything about my power steer problems  but thats for another new subject post if and when i get stuck thanks again. EKOLDEN!!!

Hi Guys,
I am showing my age here but,,,,, I was one of 2 development mechanics working at Holdens Proving Ground for the "RTS" suspension development on HZ in 1976/77 and can tell you that the stub axles are no different through the "H" and "W" car range.
The difference for "RTS" was (as stated elsewhere) a repositioned upper control arm mount and different length steering arms between manual and power steering packages,also the pump had different valving and the "rag joint" was increased to 7 ply over 5 on non "RTS" cars,as well as larger dia stabilizer bars.

AL.

Regarding the diff. between HK & T,G steering arms.
Many years ago I put an HK front end into an HT. The K front end came from a Brougham. ( power steering). For some reason my turning circle doubled. It never occured to me that the power steering arms may be shorter than the standard ones. I can't comment on the standard HK arms though.
Colin

Al, thanks for that, clears up quite a few points entirely.
one other nagging thing we have been seeing on 4 wheel disc brake HQ-HX cars, the pedal box or pedal ratio appears to be different.  When we fit rear discs to a car which was originally disc/drum we get a soft pedal.  Is there a difference somewhere in the pedal box between 4 wheel disc cars and 2 wheel disc cars?

Ken

Ken, The memory isn't as good on some things,,but I do remember re drilling pivot points on pedals in development cars again for "RTS" 4 wheel disc.
Don't believe there was any difference in the pedal box itself. I think they were all 1" master cyls. for 4 wheel disc,and still 15/16" on disc/drum as disc/disc was an option..

AL

So assuming the booster itself isn't any lower in the car, then the booster push rod would have a bend in it (sort of like the UC Torana) which would be fitted to the 4wd cars which would in effect give the pedal a firmer feel by shortening the pedal ratio.  Does this sound right?

Ken

I think the pivot point was only like maybe 15mm different to previous HX and down cars.
Can't recall any bends in the pushrod though ?? I think I have one in the FC from back then as well.

AL