FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

how on earth do u adjust them???

what we have tried is getting the lifter so it is all of the way up, then tightenin down the adjustment screw until the valve is all the way open. is this correct? or is there a right way to do it

Hi Torque,
Do you have a Holden Workshop Manual?
If not, I suggest you get one  ;)
It will answer most of your questions ???
ACE  8)

Try it the other way around.

Make sure the lifter is all the way down (so the valve would be closed) and then set a rough starting clearance of 10 thou (.010") for each (inlet/exhaust). This should allow the engine to start.

You will need to warm the engine metalwork (not just the oil) and set the clearances .008" for the intake and .012" for the exhaust valves.

I'm no guru - I'm just pretty much re-writing what is in the service manual. I can assure you that this got me underway last weekend.

I can scan and e-mail you the relevant pages if you like.

ok heres the problem. we tried what you said, and as turning the motor over we ended up with a bent pushrod. hmmmmm, anyway so what your saying is to get the lifter all the way down, then put a feeler guage (.10")between the rocker and the valve spring

When you first set the clearances, turn the motor over by hand. That way you can observe the stroke of the piston and know where the valve is in its open/close cycle. It will also guard against future bent pushrods because you will feel the resistance. The resting state of a valve is closed so when the lifter is at its lowest (and the rocker arm has the .010" clearance), the valve must be closed. Your way would see the valve always have tension on it (and therefore it would not be in a totally closed position) - even when the lifter is in the lowest position.

You will need to do this for each valve.

I think I may be being pedantic here but you put the feeler gauge between the rocker arm and the valve stem.

Hope that helps some more.

"what we have tried is getting the lifter so it is all of the way up, then tightenin down the adjustment screw until the valve is all the way open. is this correct? or is there a right way to do it "

this is the only way we can do it. ended up having to replace another pushrod today......


and i guess now it might make sense why we cant set it as the book says. our head has red motor valves in it, im guessing this is what is causing trouble

No you have to do it as spec says, lifter all the way down and valve shut.   Red valves will work but remember that there are 3 different pushrod lenghts to suit different valves.  You may have the wrong pushrods for your valves

Ken

but we tried as the book says, using feeler guage etc, and then ended up bending another pushrod, hmmmmmmm what a bastard lol

so what do you think it would be best to do/try now

I think a check of cam timing may be in order no 1 piston tdc valves should be rockin also recheck line up marks on your timing gear regars mal

I agree with Mal.

Perform the initial ignition timing setup sequence according to the manual (Electrical System, Page 294, Section 12-46). That way you will know where in the timing sequence things are.

Turn the engine over by hand. Once you are satisfied with the overall operation, use the starter motor.

As a side thought, perhaps you have one or more sticky valves. Has this motor been sitting for a while? I assume a lot here.

umm no motor has just been rfully rebuilt, and the head has just been reconditioned with 202 valves not even 2 weeks ago!!!!!!!!!

also when we pu the cam in, it was installed correctly so there are no probs there!!

Geez, all that makes it a hard call to diagnose (...on the forum) without seeing it.

I'm sorry, I don't know what to suggest next.

Nope.. Hang on...

Are you using the original rods? Is it possible that they are simply too long? Consider the combination of the 202 valves and the machined head?

OK. Now I'm really outta ideas.

yes now you know why im confused

what im thinking is, is there a chance that red motor valve stems ar slightly shirter, which means that it would mean that the valve spring would infact sit lower than usual

If anything, perhaps they are longer. That's why you are bending push rods...???

the thing is though, then we get a lifter all the way up, then tighten down the adjustment screw til the valve is all the way open, ther is no adjustment left at all, it is virtually fully adjusted, the slotted screw's head is level with the locking nut

Darcy,

Stop, think, and start again.

With all the plugs out rotate the engine until you find TDC on CYL 1. To determine this have someone turn the harmonic balancer while you cover No1 plug hole with your finger. You'll feel the pressure build and air start to escape when the piston is coming to TDC. Now go slowly and the ball on the flywheel will move towards the timing mark on behind the dizzy. At this point both inlet and exhaust valves on cylinder 1 should be completely closed. If they are not, the cam has been installed in the wrong spot.

Now if you do have the valves on CYL 1 both closed, the timing mark aligned, and the piston definately at TDC then everything is mechanically OK. You can also check the dizzy is in the right spot - the rotor should be over the no 1 mark  on the dizzy housing - or alternately put the cap on and it the leading edge of the rotor should be right at the no 1 spot on the cap. OK, that's all done.

Now carefully back off both the rocker adjustments on cyl 1. Now set them as has been suggested - .008" for the intake and .012" for the , maybe blow them out a couple of thou to allow for expansion as the engine temperature reaches normal operating specs.

OK, now if you have trouble setting the adjustment there is some other mechanical issue affecting your setting.

Before you condemn it though, do the whole process again just to make certain. Do it in an organised fashion and you'll find the answer.

Its easy to spray bullets but there is no guarrantee of success unless you aim the gun.

Keep at it mate - you'll get there.

Cheers,

Craig.

been thre tried that, three times so far!!!!! really beggining to annoy us

can i adjust the rockers this way just to get it running or is this a bad idea??

"get a lifter all the way up, then tighten down the adjustment screw til the valve is all the way open" or is this a big no no

Sorry to be so terse but you need to do the initial setting up with the "LIFTER DOWN".

And yes, I'd say it is a big no-no. You will bend pushrods. But you already know that now.... This is probably even more important in your case as this is not a standard engine. You need to minimise any risk of damage by starting with loose settings.

Twice now you've been told that you need the lifter down and the valve closed. No wonder you have no adjustment left - you are working the system like you want to get maximum opening for the valve. It simply won't work - you need compression to make the engine work that's why you need to make the adjustments with the valve closed.

Lifter down = valve closed. Lifter up = valve open.

The four strokes of an engine are (in loose terms):

1. Intake
2. Compression
3. Power/ignition
4. Exhaust

...and the cycles starts again.....

Darcy, as the guys have said.....stop, think, start again.
Lifters MUST BE DOWN WITH VALVES SHUT, then you need to adjust so you have CLEARANCE between rocker arm & top of valve ( .008"for the intake & .012"for the exhaust). DO NOT TRY TO ADJUST IT WHEN LIFTER IS UP AND VALVE IS OPEN!
Have you confirmed that No. 1 is on TDC (as Craiga said), and does the position of rotor in you distributor confirm this? If so, then set the rockers on No. 1. Then turn the engine over by hand until the rotor is pointing to the next plug lead, No. 5 (remember firing order 153624), then adjust No.5. then turn it over until No.3 is ready to fire and adjust that. Do you get the idea yet? Keep doing this until each cylinder is done. This should make it close enough for the engine to run. Ideally, they should all be set again when the engine is hot, with the engine running.........sometimes easier said than done.

Let us know how you go.

Cheers,

Graham

as  iwas saying we have tried everything that you guys have said!!!! that is why i suggested about having the lifter up. anyway i guess somehow we will work it out

Hi Guys.

Everything that gp & RET & others have said is basically correct, you never adjust tappet clearance with the valve open.

Let's start at the beginning. If I understand you correctly, when you adjust the clearances by the book, The motor will turn over easily & start, but you bend pushrods, right.

The main reason for bent pushrods is spring bind. What that means is that the cam lifts more that the spring can compress. This is because either the cam lift is too big or the springs are too compressed already.

Is is a stock or mild cam. Another thing to check is can you put a 20 thou feeler gauge in between the coils of the springs when the valves are fully open, after you have adjusted the tappets by the book. If you can't, get an engine builder to measure your valve spring set-up properly, I think that's your problem.

Dr Terry.

Dr. Terry,

You may be on to something with the spring bind.

Reading back through TorqueFC's posts I am starting to assume that there is a lumpy cam in this rebuilt engine and that combined with the machined head, the different valves are why poor TorqueFC is having so many problems.

It really is hard to diagnose without seeing it.....

I seem to remember some mention of a fairly wild cam for this beast! hhhmmmm.......
Matt ;)

ahhh now that makes sense, as soon as you mentioned about the cam bells began to ring

below are the cam specs
also where there is a * it is in place of the degree sign which is not on the keyboard lol

RUNNING CLEARANCE:IN   .14"          EX.014"
LIFT@LOBE:                IN   .296"        EX.296"

ADVERTISED TIMING
Exhaust opens:        75*       closes    41*
Inlet Opens:             40*       closes    75*

.050" Valve Timing

exhaust duration:238*

SETTING SPECIFICATIONS
inlet lobe lift @ TDC on the overlap    .093"

i hope all of that makes sense

Darcy, look at the running clearance on your cam specs. You need 14 thou clearance on both exhaust & inlet. I would say that you arent setting your gaps big enough. My cam is set at 15 thou. This may be your problem.
Colin

hey colt

been there tried that. 14 thou still isnt enough, we ended up getting the motor running but id say that they will most likely need re adjusting. as it is now i believe that it was almost 40 thou or so. we went from the alrgest gap possible using the feeler guage, then slowly went to a smaller and smaller gap,, and 40 thou was right. the motor is not tappy whatsoever, although it is hard to tell (motor is bloody loud!!!!!!!)

anyway thanks for all of your help, hopefully we can work it out some time soon though, so we can re adjust them 100%

Hi Guys.

40 thou is a big gap. The motor would sound very noisy.

I don't wish to insult your intellect, but could you be using metric feeler gauges. These days that's all the tool stores sell.

40 thou = 1mm but .40mm = 16 thou. .40 is usually just marked as 40

Dr Terry.

hi

just thought i would dig this abck up and tell ya's whats happend now. finally ot the motor in the car, and with a full exhaust the motor is really really tappy. went to adjust the tappets again, nope no way bend another couple of pushrods. anyway i measured the amount of spring that is there compared to a standard head and what do ya know, the head with 202 valves has a shorter span on the springs. im guessing this is whats causing all of the dilema and bending pushrods etc. i have thought, and re thought about it and this was the only thing i can think of. after all the mucking around and that  i thought hey what if they were different lengths, that would cause bending of pushrods and a big pain in the ass. anyway when i measured em, there is nearly 5mm differents :O:O:O

now i think maybe ill try to bolt on the other standard head that came off another running motor and see what happens, then monday morning down to the head joint to tell em to fix it!!!!!!

anyway i just thought id leave a post and maybe some one out there could clarify that this would be the problem???

Hi

This could very well be the problem.
I once had a customer with the same problem with a Harley Davidson. He had put a lumpy cam in and changed the valve springs and retainers. The high lift combined with the new bigger retainers was causing the underside of the top retainer to just kiss on the valve guide and bending pushrods. (he was using solid lifters) another problem was that the top retainer was hard against the rocker cover which was also causing some spring bind. A quick touch up on the linisher fixed the retainer but had to remove the valve guides and knock a little off the top of them.

Dave.

Darcy, I reckon youve got it. From memory when I did my motor, the red motor valves are longer overall, this length has to be brought back to grey specs. The colletts are in the same spot though. Keep at it.
Colin.

thanks colin

yeh im sure it will all work out ok. got the head off and dropepd it back, told him was nto happy!!!, he said because its such a large cam that he needs to change springs and it needs a higher seat pressure, currently it has a seat pressure of around 45, he said it will need a seat pressure around 110 (is this right??)

yes

hi

got the head back today

they went through teh head, and teh cam specs, and eventually decided to fit xu1 valve springs, minimum seat pressure is 85

now tomrrow we will have the motor runnin right and il let ya's know how it goes