Hi Team,
Been lurking on this site for a long time wating for the righ project to come along. Finally after many years of searching I found this old girl wating to be restored to her former glory.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T0w7g0-KF_1VIOyzHuSuFvSqHmkoUdih/view?usp=drive_link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T0w7g0-KF_1VIOyzHuSuFvSqHmkoUdih/view?usp=drive_link)
She is an honest FC ute with a tiny bit of rust to be repaired at the base of the pillars and around the fuel tank. She came complete with 95% of what is needed to get her back to life including a full rare spares rubber package.
On the parts fron she is only missing a front bar, the spare tyre tailgate lock and the choke cable. However, one of the bumperettes is damaged and I doubt if it can be saved. She also didn't come out with indicators, a radio or a heater so I will look to upgrade her in those areas. The door cards and kickers are shot so will need to replace them and there is no floor coverings. The seat is in good condition but covered in some hideous curtain material so will need recovering at some point.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qaKnkewniVSldXG7T3Y1308Pb99FPBP/view?usp=drive_link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qaKnkewniVSldXG7T3Y1308Pb99FPBP/view?usp=drive_link)
So after the small rust repairs she will require a lick of paint and a refresh of the grey and the box and she could be back on the road.
I plan to redo the head to have larger ports and 202 valves to match with a set of triples (yet to source) and extractors.
Looking forward to getting this old girl back into work as our "quote ute".
Very tidy looking ute!!
Can't wait to see more pics
Gareth.
It's good to see a new project on here. It sounds like it shouldn't take too much time and effort to get on the road.
I don't know where you are located, but I have a very good rear floor section in Adelaide, and travelling to Bendigo in early November.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231016/0a395a7826999bf25fd3c219ba1489d6.jpg)It may be what you need to repair around the fuel tank, although if it is only minor, it may be overkill. I also have a bumperette that could be repaired for rechroming. Passenger side.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231016/ad1b83240c8d5e1972c2f1cd9f8ec24b.jpg)
Anyway, good luck and look forward to seeing progress.
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Quote from: Errol62 on October 16, 2023, 11:47:50 AM
I have a very good rear floor section in Adelaide, and travelling to Bendigo in early November.
It may be what you need to repair around the fuel tank, although if it is only minor, it may be overkill. I also have a bumperette that could be repaired for rechroming. Passenger side.
Anyway, good luck and look forward to seeing progress.
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Hi Errol
Thanks - the rust overall is minor so I should be able to TIG/MIG in some plate with no worries. My bumpertte is in similar condition pus a dent. I will see what I can do to get it back into shape and weld up for rechroming and see where we go. Jus tnot sure I'll get the crease out. I will certainly give you a bell if I have no success.
Cheers
Hi All,
I have been doing a lot of research in preparation for the resto and I think for as many questions that I have answered others have popped up.
So for a bit of background I owned a couple fo FC Specials in the 80s. One I sold on, the other hard a worm grey, then a hot red, was the car my wife and I used at out wedding and was unfortunatley written off in an accident around 85. This search for a suitable project car started back in 2017 when I discharged from the Army and ended up here some 6 years later. I have only owned specials so some of the questions I am about to ask are based on a bit of ignorance in relation to standard/commercial vehicles and a lack of information on the web.
My reseach tells me that I am looking at a 59 model and it is likely that the engine supplied with it is the original donk that was fitted.
FC-2106-3116-S Vehicle is an FC Utility, the 3,116th manufactured in Sydney, NSW.
352-648 The Exterior Trim Code (352) describes this car as Single-Tone: Cape Ivory.
The Interior Trim Code (648) refers to: Fall Red.
256-2158 The paint colour is Cape Ivory (in DUCO Lacquer)
FC-40432-S The vehicle was assembled during 1959, and was the 39,432nd FC (in any bodystyle) assembled in Sydney, NSW.
L560726 Manufacture date (based on engine number) is April 1959
What is left of the door card is Fall Red with a grid pattern. I assume that pattern was for the standard vehicles as both of my previous FCs were specials and had the two tone cards with chrome trim. I have not identified anyone advertising door cards in this pattern; although my research hasn't been extensive. If anyone knows of a trimmer doing this style of card it would be appreciated if you could pass me the details.
I have looked over the electricals and have done some limited testing. She seems to be in pretty good order electrically. However, I was surprised to find that there is no indicator switch or flasher can and there is a NASCO blanking plate where the mechanism in the honey pot would normally be. I assume that the standard/commercial vehicles did not have indicators fitted at the factory and mine remained that way. Can anyone confirm this for me?
The dash and part of the interior has stripped of paint and etched primed. In the standards was the entire interior/exterior painted in a single colour or was the top of the dash in black as per the specials?
I don't have any remnants of the roof lining, bar the ribs. However, I do have four visors in poor condition that appear to have the standard white longrain finish. Can someone confirm that that would be correct for a 59 ute and if you have a link/giude to some reference materieal that would be even better.
I don't have any remnants of the floor covering or the finish behind the seat and up onto the parcel sheld. I assume thas would have beenblack vinyl with a GMH symbol in the centre of the floor where the inspection plate is. Can I buy this style of covering? (I haven't found it in my research so far). Does this continue up behind the set and up onto the parcel shelf or is there a different finish or material.
My last question is parts related - I have working locks in the ignition and glove box. I can't get the passenger door to lock yet but that could be gummed up but I expect that I can get the wafers redone to match. What I don't have is a lock for the spare tyre gate. I nearly fell over backwards when I saw the prices on Fleabay. Is there an aftermarket solution at a reasonable price until I can find something with a price a little more in line with reality?
A lot of questions up front I know - but that should be the big download. From here on in I trust that I can push forward with limited reachback - but great to know this forum exists in times of need.
Cheers
Jolls
My 1960 FB ute had no indicators either. They were optional, standard on Specials. Also have a very early FB van which does have them. You should find the wiring is in place to the rears at least. At some stage well into FC production the flasher setup was changed from blinking the top, brake light, to the combination reverse light at the bottom. Chassis number you quoted is quite a late one I would have thought. Have you read the date codes on the driveline and or glass, assuming original of course?
I think the top of the dash was painted in cinder grey satin as per steering column and on Melbourne cars, the firewall. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong.
Door trim you describe is FC standard and commercial. No arm rests or frivolities like that for goodness sake. Prolly no cigarette lighter either.
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Ah yes, the spare wheel door lock. Made by Lockwood, cast out of pretty thin pot metal and subjected to much use and abuse. They are thin on the ground. I bought a cabinet lock from Bunnings which does the job and fairly inconspicuous. Just needed to enlarge the escutcheon hole in the door, if you know what I mean. No pendulum cover, and sits proud a bit. Keep your eye out for an original one at not more than say $120. You’re pretty lucky if the door itself is good.
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Obsolete Rubber Mats in Melbourne. Martin Figo is an enthusiast and supplies better than original reproduction rubber mats which really set off a restored interior. I can’t think why anyone would put carpet in an old Holden, although I did it myself in my foolish youth.
The mat only goes far enough to disappear under the fully extended front seat. There are seperate short pieces for between seat and sill, with no further trimming I don’t believe, other than the parcel tray. The ute seats were trimmed just over the rear top bolster, with a sort of cape that snugs in under the rear window with the aid of a wire bow in the edge, similar to a hood bow. This is long enough to be just fully extended when the seat is fully forward, and when the seat is in the rearmost position it folds down in the crevice between the back of the seat and the cargo wall.
Someone will pipe up soon regarding the interior trim. I recall Glen Stankervis had a roll of head lining but may have been green. SMS fabrics in USA have most stuff, being Chevrolet derived however can be a pain to deal with. Winners have a limited range of reproduction seat and other trim, but ouch on the wallet.
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Hi Errol,
Thanks so much for the info. It is gold and sets me up for success - I'll look into it all as I progress.
I have the cape on the back of the seat, I assumed it tied into whatever was at the back fo the seat - but now you describe that it ties in with the window the wierd looking roof bow I have makes sense. I trust that I can simply have the curtain material replaced with a "Fall Red" vinyl.
You are 100% correct in the cigarette lighter department as well!
Not sure how original I want to go yet - I have found some after market door cards for specials with arm rests that may just cut the mustard.
Thanks for the lead on the floor covering - wasn't going to go carpet it is a ute afterall - having said that my VY SS has carpet - more of a poser than a real ute!
Well that's right, carpet is for commodores.
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Sorry to hi-jack the thread.
Errol could you please contact me re:rear tank section.
Philwreck. 0416081109.
Done
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Hi Team
I have gone through the wiring and I definitely don't have any of the optional fittings. I do want to add reversing lights and indicatos for practicality.
It is my understanding that the reverse light switch is the same through to HR. Can anyone tell me if the mounting brackets are the same too or if I need on specific to an FE/FC?
Cheers
Craig
All the same, probably even up to HK crash box edition.
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Quote from: Errol62 on October 23, 2023, 09:24:46 PM
All the same, probably even up to HK crash box edition.
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Thanks mate.
Quote from: Jolls on October 23, 2023, 08:19:41 PM
Hi Team
I have gone through the wiring and I definitely don't have any of the optional fittings. I do want to add reversing lights and indicatos for practicality.
It is my understanding that the reverse light switch is the same through to HR. Can anyone tell me if the mounting brackets are the same too or if I need on specific to an FE/FC?
Cheers
Craig
You won't have wiring all the way through to the taillight and park lamps, but the loom in the car should have the wires ready to attach to. You'll need to change the globe holders in the park lamps to twin filament like a Special has, but there's no obvious external alterations required. (Unlike an FE, which has the parkers in the headlamps like an old VW, and so the blinker bodies just aren't there at all on Standards and commercials).
Your ute predates the introduction of orange rear lenses for the indicators, so what wiring there is would be configured for the flashing brake lights. You will need to run more wires through the body and tray if you plan on using the lower part of the taillight for indicators. Rares may have the lenses in clear or orange, or you can use orange globes behind the clear lenses.
If you don't have the FC Workshop Manual, you should get yourself one. (The original Holden one, not the Gregorys type). It will pay for itself many times over. It has wiring diagrams, and much other useful info.
cheers RET
Quote from: RET on October 25, 2023, 04:03:42 PM
You won't have wiring all the way through to the taillight and park lamps, but the loom in the car should have the wires ready to attach to. You'll need to change the globe holders in the park lamps to twin filament like a Special has, but there's no obvious external alterations required. (Unlike an FE, which has the parkers in the headlamps like an old VW, and so the blinker bodies just aren't there at all on Standards and commercials).
Your ute predates the introduction of orange rear lenses for the indicators, so what wiring there is would be configured for the flashing brake lights. You will need to run more wires through the body and tray if you plan on using the lower part of the taillight for indicators. Rares may have the lenses in clear or orange, or you can use orange globes behind the clear lenses.
If you don't have the FC Workshop Manual, you should get yourself one. (The original Holden one, not the Gregorys type). It will pay for itself many times over. It has wiring diagrams, and much other useful info.
cheers RET
Thanks RET.
I have both the Gregorys and the Holen manuals from when I owned my previous FCs in the 80s. Thanks for the head up on the wiring. I will probably set up the rear lenses in white for reversing lights and wire them through to the location of the reverse switch. I expect I don't need it to get rego as it never came out with them and will install the switch when I find one.
Cheer n Beers
Craig
Sometimes it is better and easier to comply with current expectations in my opinion. The youngsters at the rego check often don’t get concept that there were ever cars without indicators. That also applies to the red light indicator option. As RET says using a yellow globe it the white lens is a good solution.
As to the reverse lights they certainly won’t care. They’re nice to have, not that they are much use.
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Quote from: Errol62 on October 26, 2023, 12:14:52 PM
Sometimes it is better and easier to comply with current expectations in my opinion. The youngsters at the rego check often don’t get concept that there were ever cars without indicators. That also applies to the red light indicator option. As RET says using a yellow globe it the white lens is a good solution.
As to the reverse lights they certainly won’t care. They’re nice to have, not that they are much use.
Good point, something I will need to think about some more - also saves me ahving to find the reverse light switch!
I'll weigh in here.
What Clay says about expectations. I reckon it's best to wire up your taillights like a late '59 FC or FB/EK ute, with orange lenses for the indicators. The FB and EK workshop manuals have the correct wiring diagram.
In short:
Black wire - taillights, number plate lamp
Violet wire - RH rear indicator
Pink wire - LH rear indicator
Yellow wire - brake lights
B.t.w., I've repaired the indicator switch, but if you can find someone who's got the stalk as well as the switch, better.
Oh, and - you'll have to run all the extra wiring for the indicator flasher, the dash tell-tale lights, and the front indicators. At this point it might be easier to get in touch with Vintage Wiring Harnesses and order a main wiring harness for an FC Special.
Do your front parking lights have a blue and white wire each?
Rob
I have just finished wire my reverse lights, indicators and park lights on my FC ute. I left all the clear/white lenses in and used switch back led globes, indicators flash orange and reverse and park lights are white light. I did have to put a different flasher can that senses the load from the LEDs
Same with my '58 Special Sedan ..Flashing rear brake light as turn indicator ...modern day drivers and or people who arent into cars think your lights are faulty ..I didn't want some one overtaking me whilst turning cause the didn't see my brake light flashing ..as the others have covered here , my clear lenses are period correct , so extra pair of globe holders ,extra wires as per FB wiring , also covered elsewhere here , and LED amber globes front and back , new flasher canister to suit ..my intention to turn is very clear ..dont have blokes hanging out window yelling " should a got a sparky mate !!! Or as one lady said during resto " why dont the blinkers work , They are !!! cant you see the red brake light is blinking ? NO ! why did you do that ? Thats the blinker lense there isn't it ? Drivers cant make decisions about what they cant see ,That is the message I get from that ,Its a real safety issue for me ,and obviously Holden were intending to get around to it ...
Quote from: fcute on October 27, 2023, 01:28:00 AM
I have just finished wire my reverse lights, indicators and park lights on my FC ute. I left all the clear/white lenses in and used switch back led globes, indicators flash orange and reverse and park lights are white light. I did have to put a different flasher can that senses the load from the LEDs
I think you have won me over, although I really loved the red indicatos in my previous FCs; not that I ever saw tham other than when I was testing them. Definitey white lenses with orange globe/LED. Means I can ditch the search for the reversing light switch. Tick one more off the list.
It has been slow and steady so far - checking out the electricial side of the hose in the evenings and working hard on collecting the parts I need to finish her off. So far I have collected/repaired:
- a set of triple 1 1/2in SUs;
- a matching set of period headers - came with the SUs
- identified a heater (to be picked up next time I am in Sydney - thank you John
- repaired the dash dimmer in the light switch
- cleaned and repaired the idiot lights
- taken photos to the local signmaker to get new markings for the idiot lights and fuel gauge
- started the repair of the tailgate badge using CASWELDs pot metal solder
- commenced "unseizing" the clutch and brake master cylinders
- sanded back the repairs of the steering wheel by the previous owner (he used bog; not sure how it will last. I have previously used araldite - thoughts on the best approach?)
- assessed parts for repair/rechrome/spare/replace
I have yet to resolve the fuel gauge issue - will have a play with moving the coils to see if I can get a result. Otherwise I will have to search for a replacement.
I have decided that I will replace the front end with a HR disc brake setup for safety purposes - but not in the immediate term. It can be a slow burn so I can try and get her back on the road ASAP. Given I am also in the midst of renovating a house that isn't very fast. ;D
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Quote from: fcute on October 27, 2023, 01:28:00 AM
I have just finished wire my reverse lights, indicators and park lights on my FC ute. I left all the clear/white lenses in and used switch back led globes, indicators flash orange and reverse and park lights are white light. I did have to put a different flasher can that senses the load from the LEDs
Just re-read your post - indicators and revers lights. Smart and got it. The reverse switch is back on the table! DAmn - thought I was making a little progress haha
Remind me - what's the problem with the fuel gauge?
Rob
Hi Ardiesse
I pulled, inspected and cleaned the fuel gauge. It was full of wasp mud.
Wiring and coils look good and the paint over the screws holding the coils is intact.
The needle can make a full sweep so there is no impediment to movement. When power is applied at 0 ohms the needle instantly responds to where the E symbol would be, but as the resistance is increased the needle moves below the E until I get to 150 ohms where there is no needle deflection (up against a hard stop). So instead of the needle moving from empty to full it continues to move left as I step up the resistance. I switched the resistance to the power and ground side of the gauge as well with no discernable change. As the gauge moved in the wrong direction as the resistance increased I also changed the polarity to see if I had that incorrect and there was no discernable change in the system.
The circuit across the coils is complete and has a 54 ohm resistance. I can tell from the plier marks on the chrome trim that the gauge has been apart before. The needle also looks as though it has been "aligned" previously. I have it doing a reasonable sweep now and pointing in pretty much the right direction under the influence of gravity. I have identified the two screws that hold the coils in place and I am contemplating adjusting them to promote movement in the gauge.
This is as far as I have progressed in the fault finding/diagnosis.
Cheers
Craig
Craig,
In normal operation, a short to ground at the sender terminal makes the gauge read E, and 30 ohms between sender terminal and ground makes the gauge read F.
The gauge has two coils inside - one connected between BAT and sender terminals, and one between sender and ground (the gauge's case). So you need to make two resistance measurements - one between BAT and sender, and another between sender and the case, with the BAT terminal unconnected.
I reckon that the "shunt" coil in your fuel gauge is open-circuit. When you short the sender terminal to ground, enough current flows through the "series" coil to lift the needle off the stop and point to "E", but as you increase the resistance, the current decreases to the point where the needle can't lift off the stop.
There's no point in trying to repair the gauge. Get another. But you may need to test several before you find a good one. The insulation in the coils degrades over time, and leads to unsteady readings. Go to Jaycar and get a 15-ohm wire-wound resistor. Connect between sender and ground. Power the gauge up. It should read half-full, and the needle shouldn't wander.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on October 29, 2023, 01:00:12 PM
I reckon that the "shunt" coil in your fuel gauge is open-circuit. When you short the sender terminal to ground, enough current flows through the "series" coil to lift the needle off the stop and point to "E", but as you increase the resistance, the current decreases to the point where the needle can't lift off the stop.
Thanks Rob,
That makes sense. I'll have a squiz at it tomorrow and pull it apart for a bit of experiential learning.
Oh well, add another part to the puchase list.
Cheers
Craig
Quote from: ardiesse on October 26, 2023, 06:56:36 PM
What Clay says about expectations. I reckon it's best to wire up your taillights like a late '59 FC or FB/EK ute, with orange lenses for the indicators. The FB and EK workshop manuals have the correct wiring diagram.
In short:
Black wire - taillights, number plate lamp
Violet wire - RH rear indicator
Pink wire - LH rear indicator
Yellow wire - brake lights
B.t.w., I've repaired the indicator switch, but if you can find someone who's got the stalk as well as the switch, better.
Oh, and - you'll have to run all the extra wiring for the indicator flasher, the dash tell-tale lights, and the front indicators. At this point it might be easier to get in touch with Vintage Wiring Harnesses and order a main wiring harness for an FC Special.
Do your front parking lights have a blue and white wire each?
Rob
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the heads up. Sorry I missed your post when it came in. I was able to locate an indicator switch with the stalk in reasonable condition. Thank you very much for the offer and following up. I also purchased a reverse light switch so my plan is to run the woring as you have indicated to a dual LED setup, one white one orange. I'm not sure how I will do that yet, may have to make a bespoke "globe". I can then use a modern can hidden away up under the dash. I will also use and orange/white combo in front parkers. Shouldn't be too hard to pull off.
Cheers
Craig
Hi fellow FC nuts,
think I am top of most of the electrcial for now. Time to move onto the next problem set.
I have a set of old style triple SUs and am wondering about the best setup to operate them from and accelerator perspective. In my head I have a plan to use the standard accelerator setup and rig up a cable from the lever on the firewall to a lever setup on the SUs. I assume this has been done plenty of times before so before I go trying to reinvent the wheel can I lean on the forum for a bit of wisdom? Perhaps some photos of how this has been achieved before?
Thanks in advance for your time and advice.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Craig,
Triple SUs are by no means a "bolt-on" setup. At the least you have to remove the battery tray and relocate the battery; and also make substantial modifications to the firewall. If you don't already have an account on FB-EK, now's the time. Clay and Brett both have put triples on their utes (OK, so on red motors, but the principles are the same), and somebody on FB-EK has a thread showing how to connect a throttle cable to the standard accelerator pedal.
Oh, and "scope-creep". You have been warned.
Rob
I run HZ 6cyl cable running off the lever out the floor on the pedal. Easy conversion. Just a matter of extending the lever with a mount to suit the HZ cable.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231030/17878b38bd046f6093aa1b5df942d067.jpg)The outer bracket slips conveniently under the brake distribution block, and some adjustment can be obtained by sliding it forward and back to obtain wide open throttle.
As Rob says, I'm running 1 3/4" SUs on a 179, using a Warnerford Design manifold, which I believe was intended to be a bolt in fit to EH.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231030/15280ce09d5c04633f7532342a61b27f.jpg)You can see it brings the rear carb forward, and I used all forward mounted float bowls.
Only modification to my firewall was a slight indent where the body tag was originally, for the rear filter, and I relocated the tag up higher. This is a late FB, not FC though.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231030/4a27a627e189432902b832135bda9caa.jpg)
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Thanks Errol and Rob
I'm not sure if I will need to do too much modification with the setup I have. The SUs are set up on three manifolds and just a stub on the intake to put a sock over. If I can work out how to post a photo on this site I will do so.
Cheers
Craig
I see where that mudguard washer I lost went now…
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Image Uoploading:
https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=5613.msg31835#msg31835
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on October 30, 2023, 08:35:21 PM
Image Uoploading:
https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=5613.msg31835#msg31835
Rob
Thanks, appreciate the guidance. Will get some photos tomorow.
Cheers
Hi All,
This is the SU setup I will be installing. Was supposedly fitted to an FC previously. I also expect that the fuel line had a return to the tank to prevent flooding. I expect I will need to shorten and cut the return line to make it fit.
Choke is setup on the centre carb but no throttle linkage, or evidence of one, to be found.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKHfvsDK/Jolls-Triple-SUs.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKHfvsDK)
Headers/extractors I plan to use:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkWNfbX1/Headers.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkWNfbX1)
The brake and clutch master cylinders and reservoirs were on my list to do today.
I was able to remove the pistons and they and the bores look to be in reasonable condition. May only require a hone. I was not so lucky with the tin reservoirs. I don't think either of them are re-usable.
You can get the full story here: https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=28497.msg180213#msg180213 (https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=28497.msg180213#msg180213)
I played around with the fuel gauge too. I have continuity across the coils so I have to imagine that the coating across the coil windins has failed on one of the coild and there is a or number of short circuits. I'll see what I can track down to replace this bit.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Quote from: fcute on October 27, 2023, 01:28:00 AM
I have just finished wire my reverse lights, indicators and park lights on my FC ute. I left all the clear/white lenses in and used switch back led globes, indicators flash orange and reverse and park lights are white light. I did have to put a different flasher can that senses the load from the LEDs
I hve decided to take the low road and make life easier on those driving around me and go to orange LED indicators front and back and white parkers/reverse lights. I will modify the wiring to suit and incorporate and LED rated flasher can. That should be pretty straight forward to do. I ordered four of these on eBay so just need to find a base to suit and modify it to fit into the bulb wells of the front and rear indicators/parkers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/87Qt2bwR/Amber-White-LED.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87Qt2bwR)
When you did your conversion did you run into any problems? What base did you use? Did you have to modify it to fit?
Cheers n Beers
Craig
I used rare spares brake light light globe holders, front an rear. Only problem I had was getting orange/ white led globes that were short enough not to touch the lense on the rear. Apart from that they are real cool especially the front as they are a very bright white so can be seen in the daytime and when the indicators goes of or on the white light kind of dims down then up and really easy to see. Also a decent light to reverse with which sheds a fair amount of light.
Quote from: fcute on November 03, 2023, 01:47:20 AM
I used rare spares brake light light globe holders, front an rear. Only problem I had was getting orange/ white led globes that were short enough not to touch the lense on the rear. Apart from that they are real cool especially the front as they are a very bright white so can be seen in the daytime and when the indicators goes of or on the white light kind of dims down then up and really easy to see. Also a decent light to reverse with which sheds a fair amount of light.
Thanks Mate,
Appreciate the feedback - good to know that I'm on the right track. I will wait until the globes arrive and trust that I have selected the right ones. The bulb is 26mm deep with a 20mm cap - similar to a brake/tail light bulb so I expect it will fit. I think they are literally on a slow boat from Chine as delivery is not expected before Dec 13. The holders from Rare Spares are on the buy list (which is getting longer by the day). I am keen to have pretty much everything in place when I really crack into it so I can get a good run.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
The parts list for the build is starting to decrease. I just purchased up a complete HR front end with proportioning valve, 2 inch lowered springs, 2 inch lowering blocks and two new HR rims. They have been sandblasted and undercoated already.
So - now that I have the disc brake front end is the booster a mandatory requirement or something I can get to down the track?
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
With the stock master you really need a booster Craig. I'm not sure you want a proportioning valve. The standard HR setup is single circuit master to VH40 booster to discs front and smaller compatible wheel cylinders rear, which means changing rea housing and brakes to EJ HR.
Option 1 is HK HZ or other 1" dual circuit master, boost front circuit only using VH40 or smaller VH44 and retin stock rear unboosted on separate circuit.
Option 2 firewall mounted booster and dual circuit master with rear proportioning valve. Then you have to one the clutch master or else modify bonnet hinge.
Another option I have seen is smaller diameter master unboosted.
Easiest option with the grey is probably just swap the rear axle and brakes.
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I warned you about scope-creep . . .
The moment you change to an HR front suspension, you'll need to have an engineer certify the installation. And I think dual circuit brakes become mandatory, and a collapsible steering column, and two-speed electric wipers, and a heater/demister. It's not as easy now as it was in (say) the '80s.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on November 03, 2023, 03:40:03 PM
I warned you about scope-creep . . .
The moment you change to an HR front suspension, you'll need to have an engineer certify the installation. And I think dual circuit brakes become mandatory, and a collapsible steering column, and two-speed electric wipers, and a heater/demister. It's not as easy now as it was in (say) the '80s.
Haha,
I recall the warning - I didn't think that through too far - I can always sell it.
Last time I did this was in the very early 80s and I started by adding the HR front and rear end. Then I cut out and replaced the tunnel and added a 4 speed box a little later When the grey died I simply welded in some engine mounts threw in a 202 and took it down to the RTA? and had it inspected. The only inspection it had in its time was after the engine change and it had a few rego inspections in between.
I guess I am a little naive; adding disc brakes is a bolt on safety upgrade. I did not expect the engineering etc unless I added a bigger donk. Then I expected all the additions plus seat belts.
The fella I purchased this off was running around with just the proportioning valve; that is what prompted my intial question. I know last time I did this I used a booster. In my mind I had thought through a plan of stock booster to VH44 to a proportioning valve to the brake setup using FC rear and HR front. Pretty sure that is the setup I had in the 80s. I guess if I have to change the diff as well I could go EH/ HR or LC/LJ and use the VH40 to keep it as close to original as I can. I have just sourced the missing clutch parts, thanks to Clay, to keep it looking original in that area.
I will have a think about how I stage this - and if I want the PITA of having to do so. I can always add some paint and sell it - got it for a very good price.
Good old SA, we don't need no injuneering here. Bureaucratic bullshit imo. As long as it is done to a "professional" standard, it is the only requirement here.
I would be tempted to flaunt the silly law if I could get away with it, meaning both bureaucratically and insurance wise, of course.
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I've dug through my brake drawer, and I can supply you a brake master with a matching reservoir. I have a matching PBR one, which is a disc brake one supplied by Power Brakes SA, or I should have a drum brake one, which may be slightly crustier. Either way, I can give you two matching usable masters with matching early plastic reservoirs.
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Craig,
Your experience is exactly like mine. I put HR front discs and rear axle, with VH40 booster, into the ex-family EK. Come pink slip time, my father was full of gloomy prognostications. The mechanic who inspected it did a brake test in the servo's forecourt, stood the car on its nose, got out, looked underneath and recognised the HR front suspension, wrote the ticket out and said, "best old Holden brakes I've ever had".
Rob
Quote from: Errol62 on November 03, 2023, 01:14:54 PM
With the stock master you really need a booster Craig. I'm not sure you want a proportioning valve. The standard HR setup is single circuit master to VH40 booster to discs front and smaller compatible wheel cylinders rear, which means changing rea housing and brakes to EJ HR.
Option 1 is HK HZ or other 1" dual circuit master, boost front circuit only using VH40 or smaller VH44 and retin stock rear unboosted on separate circuit.
Option 2 firewall mounted booster and dual circuit master with rear proportioning valve. Then you have to one the clutch master or else modify bonnet hinge.
Another option I have seen is smaller diameter master unboosted.
Easiest option with the grey is probably just swap the rear axle and brakes.
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Hi Errol62
Firstly thank you so much for the parts offer. I am all over it like whire on rice. I have been mulling over the options all afternoon. I'm going to run with the HR front end so the disc brake booster would be gold. I have been thinking about how to do this with a minimum of effort while maintaining "period originality". I am already throwing triple SUs and extractors on her and will have the cam reground, the head done and the bottom end refreshed and balanced and the flywheeel lightened. So the investment in being able to stop is pretty important.
I have thought through several options and am thinking about keeping the FC rear end but sleeving the cylinders down the the same as HR. Do you think that is achievable? Do you think istoo much effort and simply changing to HR/LJ drum to drum would be more cost effective?
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Sounds like an LC LJ diff would suit you. EJ to HR backing plates and drums and run zero offset magnums. Or EJ HR with custom offset. You will be lengthening the diff ratio unless you’re planning for the strip. Later brakes are wider and also less fiddly than early. Best of all there is ready and affordable parts availability. The same can’t be said for the early brakes.
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Sent you a pm confirming what to send you Craig. Your brake thread seems to be corrupted.
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Quote from: Errol62 on November 04, 2023, 07:03:29 PM
Sent you a pm confirming what to send you Craig. Your brake thread seems to be corrupted.
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Nothing received - checked messages and email. Will keep an eye out and respond ASAP.
Cheers
Craig
Hi Team,
Another piece of the puzzle has sort of fallen into place. I have been given an aftermarket VH44 booster so now I need to work out if/how I use this as it looks the goods. However. it is not the VH40 that came out the the HR - that would make life easy. I am mulling options over. I'm not sure all of them are acceptable; but, I'm pretty sure that they are workable:
- use the VH44 as a means to trade up to VH40 and run a full HR setup
- run the VH44 and boost the discs only - use the existing FC rears unboosted
- run the VH44 and boost the the lot - use the proportioning valve with the existing FC brakes
I'm keen to keep the FC rear end if I can - not wedded tothe idea though. If it neds to change - so be it.
These reservoirs ok Craig?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231104/71f7812eeb8bdbcc8e4c9198be9e24d3.jpg)
I’ve been running stock HR setup with VH44. It’s not too bad until there is a load on board. I’m about to change to VH40, because I’ve got one on the shelf, and I’m sticking with stock single circuit master. Well for now anyway……
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Quote from: Errol62 on November 04, 2023, 08:00:53 PM
I’ve been running stock HR setup with VH44. It’s not too bad until there is a load on board. I’m about to change to VH40, because I’ve got one on the shelf, and I’m sticking with stock single circuit master. Well for now anyway……
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Thanks for the guidance. The old girl won't be carrying a load at all - maybe a bag or two and a few beers in an esky at most. I think I'll be fine with just the pair of us up front.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Short update:
Last week - picked up a HR disc front end out of an FC complete with two rims that clear the calipers. Has been sand blasted and is in undercoat - will pull it down and get it ready to go in down the track. I have made a decision to get her on full NSW rego with the standard front end and then change over to the HR down the track. I don't want the short term hassle of dealing with engineering etc. HR front end has aftermarket springs lowered 2 inches, 2 inch lowering blocks and a proportioning valve. Old mate was running this setup on his FC off a VH44 and standard rear end with no issues (so he says). I will set it up the same and see how it goes - pretty sure that is the same setup I had on my Special in the 80s too.
Thanks to some members here I have picked up a spare generator (Lucas) and starter motor, a complete clutch and brake master cylinder set and some spare brushes for the Bosch generator.
The Bosh generator has had an overhaul (less the sealed bearing which is on order). The Bosch regulato has been checked and gets the thumbs up. The generator runs well as a motor so I expect we are in pretty good shape to generate power.
The motor turns over with the starter motor and feels pretty good. When I picked her up she had a reconditioners tag on her showing 100psi in each cylinder. I will build a test stand soon and get her running to what condition she is in.
Checked the front end - pretty loose - not sure if it is bearings or king pins. More work required there - I trust I just need to regrease and tighten things up to get her back up and on the road. Haven't got to the wheel cylinders yet - but full overhaul required. Will get onto the cylinders ASAP and get them cleaned up and will put them back together close to the end so they're not sitting around unused just wating to sieze up again.
SUs have been to a carby expert for a health check - in good shape and will get an ultrasonic bath over Christmas in exchange for a few beers and my company. (A mate that lives on a property around the corner runs a carby refurb business!)
Picked up a standard front bar - small dent and some flaking chrome but good enough to get me up and running. Hammered the dent out this afternoon - she should be fine for rechroming. Bashed out the dent and tear in one bumberette. Can't get it quite matched up so off to a mate of Son #2 to see if they can sort it in their shop. Once welded I trust we can get her rechromed and back on the old girl.
Sourced and AC bypass filter - I know but every little bit helps - and I reckon they look the coolest of the three options.
I have sourced orange and white LEDs for the reverse lights/indicators and parkers/indicators. Just need to order the correct bases from Rares. To go withh that we sourced a reverse switch and and indicator switch with stalk. Now have to find a base and LED rated can to make it all work.
On a whim we sourced a couple of hidden bluetooth 200W amplifiers. Plan is to mount it in place of the cigarette lighter and simply stream radio/tunes/map directions through the phone. Will hide a USB C charging port in the glove box.
I hope to pick up a heater from another member this weekend while in Sydney and am in discussion about demister vents with someone else. I trust that I will have this sorted over the weekend.
The fuel gauge has been elusive - either stupid money is required for a known working unit or people want dollars and postage for a unit and they can't tell me if it works or not. Risk on me! I have fond a mob that will bring mine back to life for $120 - so I expect I will head down that route and save it going to landfill.
I have partially repaired the broken tailgate bling - but need to find some heat sink type of material so the "solder" doesn't remelt and "run away" while I strengthen the
I only have the front engine mount and the chassis brackets for the rear one. I expect that the rear engine mounts and brackets and kicking around on the shed floor in place near Dubbo. I will post in the parts wanted section to see if I can find some. I also only have one guard spear (passenger side I think).
Over the last couple of weeks I have beenreading through the "accessory of the week" pages and have found some ideas that I will try to work on. Should be able to knock up a parcel shelf and a set of dual speakers for behind the speaker grille. Also need to find a jack/wheel brace etc - where did they live in the ute?
Enough of an update for now
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Jack etc lives in the spare wheel compartment.
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Quote from: Errol62 on November 16, 2023, 05:44:52 PM
Jack etc lives in the spare wheel compartment.
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Got it, thought it may have been behind the seat. Scissor jack, tool roll of little utility and a cross brace with hub cap remover and rubber cap I assume.
Commercials had the bottle jack as far as I know, with no jacking point under the b pillar. I think the standard tools would be familiar to most Australian males of a certain age, as they were generally floating around dads sheds in multiples. The orange handle screw driver, spark plug tube spanner and adjustable pliers stuck in my memory.
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Quote from: Errol62 on November 16, 2023, 09:07:50 PM
Commercials had the bottle jack as far as I know, with no jacking point under the b pillar. I think the standard tools would be familiar to most Australian males of a certain age, as they were generally floating around dads sheds in multiples. The orange handle screw driver, spark plug tube spanner and adjustable pliers stuck in my memory.
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Thanks - time to rat through the shed!
Being a builder and rain don't go together so I got a bit of time out in the shed this afternoon after doing quotes this morning. I ducked into town before lunch and picked up some model paint and got stuck into the horn button. The paint was flaky and missing in places. I used a combination of scotchbrite and nail polish remover to clean the old girl up. My lion had changed to gold but the rest of the silver remained the same colour. I kept the gold lion but rubbed back outlines around his legs and head so it was back to the resin. I did the same for the GMH symbol in the ball.
Then taped him all up in preparation for paint. If you have a close look at the lion you can see where I rubbed the paint back to the resin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bGVXj54y/FC-Horn-Prep.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGVXj54y)
Then it was a matter of layering the paint. Silver first, then blue and finally the red. It turned out pretty well, although you can see in the blue places where I couldn't remove all of the old shitty paint in the creases and also where I missed a bit of silver overspray thet crept under the tape and some red that somehow bled through. I will rub that back tomorrow after the paint has died a little and do another blue coat to sort it out.
Turned out OK for my first ever attempt. The silver against the gold for contrast makes the lion much better defined and I like the GMH detail in red.
When I find another horn button I think I will soak it in a bit of thinners to see if I can't get the residue out of the creases in the blue and have another crack now that I know a little bit more about what I am doing.
Finished off the outside with a clean and a coat of headlight restorer. Restored horn button - must we worth 5 mph? ;)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vg15P1WY/FC-Horn.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vg15P1WY)
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Looks great.
Great job Craig. 👍👍
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well done , looks the part ..
First bay back on the tools for the New Year - well it was supposed to be but pissing down rain here in Murrumbateman.
Tidied up some papaerwork and did some maintenance on our machines then started on the steering wheel. Sort of working in reverse until I can get the house resto complete as the shed space I need to work on the ute is full of materials for the house build, and the wife's Capris Convertable. So got to finish the house or the Capri before I get the sehd space I need!
Anyway the steerign wheel had been "restored" by the previous owner. A half hearted job, some bog/spot putty worked into the hairline cracks and then sanded with what looks like 120 grit judging by the sanding marks, well oversanded in places, and then hit with some gloss black. Enamel I expect.
I took to it with the dremmel and gouged out most of the bog and opted for the trusty 5 minute Araldite approach.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xcF5tvRd/Steering-Wheel-Front.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcF5tvRd)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cr6MgKSG/Steering-Wheel-Rear.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cr6MgKSG)
There will be a fair bit of sanding to do as I addressed every crack that I found. I will probably need to hit it with some spray putty as well to address the overzealous sanding of the previous owner. As it is going back into a ute I think a couple of coats of black and then some clear in 2 pack should tidy it all up.
Now to try and tidy up the hub caps - I think I have one decent one out of the four that could be rechromed. The other three have been battered over their life - I will see what I can achieve with a hammer and a few dollys but my selection is limited so a slow and steady approach will be required. I expect I will need to find a couple of spoons and make a couple of custom dolly's; but even then a couple of the creases are pretty deep. Slow and steady wins the race here I guess!
Craig,
It depends what you want to achieve with the hubcaps, but Electroplating Technology in Queanbeyan does a good thing with steel hubcaps.
Rob
Thanks Rob,
They are the guys I'm taking everything to. I went through everything today and found that there is still a bit of work to do before I take it in for them to do in a job lot:
- There was an inch depression in the lower member of the chrome grille caused a while back based on the rust in the depression. I have it back to 2mm over about 200 so I'm happy with that. I do have to weld a tear in the strengthening rib at the the centre of where the depression was though.
- On thorough inspection of the left hand front indicator I found a tear in the metal, won't be seen but will need a pot metal repair to stop it spreading.
- All of the three tail light surrounds that I thougth were good are damaged. I can probably repair two but maybe not to the standard for chroming - I could probably cut and shut two into one with a pot metal weld but I'm not sure of how the finish will come up. I'll have a chat with them about it as I am taking in the tailgate badge to discuss if the repair is good enough to chrome
- I need to pull the quarter windows apart. Started on it today but the rubbers are so stiff they don't want to come out. I will drill out the rivets tomorrow so I have better access to finish the job.
- I haven't been able to straighten one of the bumparettes enough to weld yet. I think I will apply some heat to see if I can get a bit more of a response - otherwise I will need to get it into somewhere to press it straight and weld the tear - another search while I am in town tomorrow
- The bonnet bird is in average state so definitely needs to be done
- The speaker grille and radio cover are in reasonable shape but will look odd among the new chrome so I will get them done as well
Craig,
I have many taillight housings.
Front quarter windows are a world unto themselves. If you want a top-class job, it's best to separate the top hinge brackets from the frames, and also the lock pivot from the frame (many rivets to drill) and get each component rechromed separately. Be aware also that the replacement Rare Spares rivets are oversize. I had to turn them down before I could use them. Also, chroming reduces hole diameters.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on January 08, 2024, 07:57:56 PM
Craig,
I have many taillight housings.
Front quarter windows are a world unto themselves. If you want a top-class job, it's best to separate the top hinge brackets from the frames, and also the lock pivot from the frame (many rivets to drill) and get each component rechromed separately. Be aware also that the replacement Rare Spares rivets are oversize. I had to turn them down before I could use them. Also, chroming reduces hole diameters.
Rob
Thanks for the tip re the Rare Spares components - I assume it is the saem deal from Resto Country. I'm going down the route of separating all of the components and getting them chromed individually. I've messaged you about the taillight housings.
Cheers
Craig
Ute tail lights were originally p a inted, rather than chromed. If you go that route, they can be lightly filled.
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Quote from: Errol62 on January 09, 2024, 11:18:46 AM
Ute tail lights were originally p a inted, rather than chromed. If you go that route, they can be lightly filled.
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Thanks, I was aware of that but Mrs J isn't a fan - I was keen on the painted route but was out voted!
I'm fighting to keep the standard chrome strip on the govebox and no radio as original (hiding a bluetooth unit). I folded on the heater though - I feel the cold now too!
Cheers
Got stuck into the lower portion of the grille today. It had a 25mm depression in the centre rear of the bar and had a small tear in the metal. I beat out the depression yesterday and it was about 2mm out of alignment. I grabbed the MIG today as we were welding up some damage to a couple of our trailers. After the first attempt the shrinkage pulled the bar out of alignment by about 10mm so I muscled it back into shape only to find the material adjacent to the weld tore. So it was rewelded and I used the MAP torch to heat it and then persuades it into position.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5QCHXN0M/Lower-Grille-Repair-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5QCHXN0M)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRBFY6zW/Lower-Grille-Repair-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRBFY6zW)
I managed to get it within a mm or so out of true so pretty happy with the result. It will be hidden at the rear of the bar and go unseeen so, while it will never be in concourse condition, it should cut the mustard for doing quotes in around Yass and Murrumbateman!
While the boys were slaving away on the trailer repair I also took the opportunity to drill out the rivets in the front quarter windows and separated the glass from the frames. Both clips that hold the pivot rod in place and allow it to rotate were rusted and snapped off so I need to find a way to repair that element before they can go back in. Thoughts?
Drilling out the rivets was time consuming but the worst part of the job was getting the 65 year old rubber out of the channel. Removing the glass with a paint scraper and hammer was probably the easiest part of the whole job.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Conveniently, Rare Spares reproduces the lower spring clips for FE-FC front quarter windows.
My preferred method for removing the glass from the frames is an oven preheated to 100 deg.
Is the pivot for the quarter window lock still firmly in place? I have had to braze mine back in.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on January 10, 2024, 01:16:53 PM
Conveniently, Rare Spares reproduces the lower spring clips for FE-FC front quarter windows.
My preferred method for removing the glass from the frames is an oven preheated to 100 deg.
Is the pivot for the quarter window lock still firmly in place? I have had to braze mine back in.
Rob
Thanks for the heads up - there is a Rare Spares store in Mitchell ACT so I will drop in.
Pivots are both good, one window lock missing the other siezed. Will probably purchase an aftermarket set and keep the original as a spare.
Cheers
Craig
Got a bit of time today to check out the engine in more detail. Unfortunatley the findings weren't great.
Despite the tag attached to the manifold showing 100 psi on all cylinders the readings I achieved were 75 - 80 psi across the board. Given the time it has been in dry storage it is highly likely that the rings are stuck in the grooves. I have always had it in my plans to "freshen" her up but was secretly hoping that there wasn't a reason to.
Off with its head me thinks - and we can do a better assessment from there.
Just got to fight Son 2 for some shed space. He ran (pushed in with a loader) his VZ Crewman project into the shed this morning and is in the process of changing over all of the V6 running and stopping gear for V8 bits.
Spare V6 and commy brakes, 🤔
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Quote from: Errol62 on January 14, 2024, 07:30:16 AM
Spare V6 and commy brakes, 🤔
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The thought crossed my mind but the V6 was sold off and the brakes etc will probably go the same way - if not I will put them on the parts shelf for a rainy day. I have a hot VY SS Commodore as one of my "work utes" - needs repainting but otherwise is in great nick so no need for another go really fast horse in the stable. I am going back to my FC roots and will get the old grey up and running again. In my youth I would have made it a four speed/maybe five but I am keen to keep the 3 on the tree for nostalgia purposes. I leant to drive in one and my last FC started out as one.
I’m with you Craig. They have to be straight six, bench seat. I’m running a red six, all synchro, with Roger Hancock column shift conversion in my FB ute.
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Craig,
Don't be in too much of a hurry to behead the grey. If you have a compressor and a 14 mm spark plug adaptor, you can troubleshoot low compression easily -
Take the manifolds off.
Go through the firing order with each cylinder at TDC of the compression stroke. Squirt a little WD-40 or kerosene on top of the valve heads via the intake and exhaust ports, then pressurise the combustion chamber (you'll need to stop the motor from turning).
Listen. A deep wheezing sound down in the engine's guts means leaking piston rings. Bubbling sounds indicate leaking valves.
If the compressions you obtained are evenly low, check the calibration of your compression gauge.
Oh, and if you have a vacuum gauge, you can check for head gasket leaks. Here, it's best to loosen off the rocker pedestal bolts and nuts completely, so all the valves are closed.
Pressurise (say) no. 2, and connect the vacuum gauge to no. 3's spark plug hole. Any positive pressure at all in no. 3 means a head gasket leak between the two cylinders.
Repeat the test with cylinders 4 and 5. These two pairs of cylinders in grey motors tend to have poor head gasket sealing.
Rob
P.S. - there's a bloke in Bungendore who has a freshly built grey motor on a stand, with all accessories, twin Strombergs and tubular headers. Would you be interested?
Quote from: ardiesse on January 14, 2024, 02:15:29 PM
Craig,
Don't be in too much of a hurry to behead the grey. If you have a compressor and a 14 mm spark plug adaptor, you can troubleshoot low compression easily -
Take the manifolds off.
Go through the firing order with each cylinder at TDC of the compression stroke. Squirt a little WD-40 or kerosene on top of the valve heads via the intake and exhaust ports, then pressurise the combustion chamber (you'll need to stop the motor from turning).
Listen. A deep wheezing sound down in the engine's guts means leaking piston rings. Bubbling sounds indicate leaking valves.
If the compressions you obtained are evenly low, check the calibration of your compression gauge.
Oh, and if you have a vacuum gauge, you can check for head gasket leaks. Here, it's best to loosen off the rocker pedestal bolts and nuts completely, so all the valves are closed.
Pressurise (say) no. 2, and connect the vacuum gauge to no. 3's spark plug hole. Any positive pressure at all in no. 3 means a head gasket leak between the two cylinders.
Repeat the test with cylinders 4 and 5. These two pairs of cylinders in grey motors tend to have poor head gasket sealing.
Rob
P.S. - there's a bloke in Bungendore who has a freshly built grey motor on a stand, with all accessories, twin Strombergs and tubular headers. Would you be interested?
Thanks Rob,
I will do those checks before I behead the beast so I know what work will be required. I have always planned on gettign some work doen on the head. I expect you are aware of Chris Finn. He is advertising on Marketplace to crack tested and hot tank the head, install 202 valves withhardened seats and 308 V8 springs for $880. Bottom end will depend on what I find I guess - but plans for a mild cam, lightened flywhee and hone at best case. If the bloke in Bungendore has something ready to go at the right price I'm definitely interested. I can then work on this motor in slow time.
Cheers
Craig
Quote from: ardiesse on January 14, 2024, 02:15:29 PM
Go through the firing order with each cylinder at TDC of the compression stroke. Squirt a little WD-40 or kerosene on top of the valve heads via the intake and exhaust ports, then pressurise the combustion chamber (you'll need to stop the motor from turning).
Listen. A deep wheezing sound down in the engine's guts means leaking piston rings. Bubbling sounds indicate leaking valves.
If the compressions you obtained are evenly low, check the calibration of your compression gauge.
So did the test above - the valves seal fine the problem lies in the rings. I expect that they are stuck in the grooves. Once I get some time I will behead it and remove the innards to see what tale they tell.
I have had a good look at the engine I picked up from the farm - she was a leaky old thing before they put her into the shed. Engine number is B27861 so an FB 138 engine and if the info I have gained off the net is correct it would be a 1960 build. I will strip it down as well and make a decision on how to progress.
I heard from Brett out at Bungendore, nice engine he has built there and at a good price. I am contemplating the option but will wait to see what I find before I commit either way.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
So it was raining again today so toddled off into the shed after lunch. Decided that with such consistently low readings across all 6 cylinders the rings are the problem - could be gone, could simply be stuck after 15 - 20 years sitting idle. Either way it looks like I will need to pull the old girl apart and see what is revealed. However, as a bit of a "Hail Mary" play I decided to see if I could get her up and running. I mean why build a test stand and then not use it. Plumbed up a gravity fed ful system off the hoist with a bit of hose and a funnel into an old fuel line, connected up the coil with an on off switch. checked the timing was about right, hooked up the jumper leads and gave it a burl.
You can check the video out here:
[youtube=425,350]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMijPLAuTYE[/youtube]
Suffice to stay the timing is a little out but she ran OK. After we warmed her up a bit we pulled the pugs to check the compression readings - up to between 80 and 90 psi so a definite improvement but still well below what I want out of her. So I expect that our initial assessmant of the rings being stuck in the grooves was close to the mark. We will see what the rest of the story is when we strip her down I expect.
Well that didn't work.
The link for the video is: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMijPLAuTYE (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMijPLAuTYE)
Lean fuel mixture - possibly partially blocked jets, maybe a vacuum leak.
Ignition timing retarded.
But I don't see any blowby coming out the breather pipe, so I'd take a lot of convincing about piston rings stuck in the grooves.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on January 17, 2024, 05:49:00 PM
Lean fuel mixture - possibly partially blocked jets, maybe a vacuum leak.
Ignition timing retarded.
But I don't see any blowby coming out the breather pipe, so I'd take a lot of convincing about piston rings stuck in the grooves.
Rob
Hi Rob,
100% on the retarded timing and the carby definitely needs an good clean and service. We were discussing the lack of pressure in the crank case and thought valves - but not likely that it would be consistent across all 6 pots if the valves were a problem. Given the increase in compression of around 15% across all of the cylinders I can't explain it any other way. If it was valves I would expect a variation in readings and the compression to remain steady at around 75 psi. The compression tester could be reading low; but is it a near new SP tools kit - not a $5 job made of chinesium so I doubt it lies there - but something we have to check.
Next step is to give the carby a clean and get is st up with some linkages, grab a fan belt, hook up the radiator, adjust the timing a little and get it running for a decent duration. 35 seconds isn't enough. The one thing I did notice is that is dounded pretty quiet, less the exhaust noise out of the open manifold.
We will learn as we go.
Very impressed with your technical ability in getting a video happening Craig. Never mind getting the engine running. Sounds solid anyway mate. 👍
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Quote from: Errol62 on January 17, 2024, 06:11:59 PM
Very impressed with your technical ability in getting a video happening Craig. Never mind getting the engine running. Sounds solid anyway mate. 👍
Hi Clay, I can't take much credit for the vid; son 3 took it. It was a funny afternoon as son 2 (a mechanic) sat in bewilderment at how the distributor and timing was set from the flywheel. I tried to upload it using the You Tube icon but it failed miserably. Pretty easy to do - create a You Tube presence, take a video on your phone and upload it to your computer and from the computer to YouTube. I can talk you through it if you are keen.
Cheers n Beers
Craig
Thanks mate. I get by happily with a phone and iPad. I may have to invest in a ‘puter one day.
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Craig ..A even increase in compression is a good sign ...after you have done your tweeks and had it running for a good time and at temperature no doubt you will check compression again , for piece of mind you can , when she is hot and running , put a piece of cloth in road draft tube and block it off and remove the oil filler cap , and prevent wind from fan ,if there is excessive " blow by " it will pump fumes out the oil filler cap opening ..have a peek in and check oil on rocker shaft ..Vern ..
Quote from: my8thholden on January 19, 2024, 08:12:56 AM
Craig ..A even increase in compression is a good sign ...after you have done your tweeks and had it running for a good time and at temperature no doubt you will check compression again , for piece of mind you can , when she is hot and running , put a piece of cloth in road draft tube and block it off and remove the oil filler cap , and prevent wind from fan ,if there is excessive " blow by " it will pump fumes out the oil filler cap opening ..have a peek in and check oil on rocker shaft ..Vern ..
I did a recheck and adjust fo the timing and it is now an easy start and no problems with backfire; compression is still low and the rockers all rock. Oil is definitely getting to where it should be at the top end. I am seeing some "oil" smoke emenating from the oil filler cap and when I had it running with the rocker cover off. Can't be sure its blowby or if it is simply old oil burning off - can't give it a long enough run until I replace the water pump. I'll also refresh the fuel pump while I am at it and see if I can't have all of the support systems working at least.
Son 2 is putting the LS1 into the Crewman project tomorrow so I should get a bit of shed space back. I'll pull down the FB motor and check it over while I wait for part for this one.
Cheers n Beers
Craig
back in the day the oils then did get fumy , I can recall many a car with a stream of smoke coming out of the road draught tube ,we always blamed pre detergent oils, the oil filer cap is a breather in its self , the road draught tube ,cut at an angle as it is was designed to draw fumes away, then they had to clean up their act and came up with PCV valves ..oil will get past the rings in some engines into the combustion chamber , compression can get past and pressureise the sump ...burning oil is evident in exhaust gas and spark plugs ..blow by is evident as described earlier ..having said all that , modern day oils of course resist all that which makes identifing what is what....In the case of the engine in my FC ..a " L" engine number .bench tested running , very fumy....when I pulled it down , it mic 'd up ok ..little wear in bore , piston rings coked up in ring lands , have to dig them out, solid Perfect Circle oil rings ..NOT GOOD ..so honed bore ,slightly oversize compression rings , and four piece oil control rings , spreader, segmented keeper,and two rails per piston , easy to fit on piston , but bugger to be sure not overlapping on installation ..I actually test fitted a couple of pistons a few times to be sure what looked right actually was ..by the way , somewhere in its life the engine had been bored 3"1/16" plus .030" ...and I fitted Harvs head gasket ..round two ..engine runs quite well , 120psi each pot , head shaved , was the practice in the day ..Vern .
cse in the day ...
Craig ,,I meant to say also ..AS it seems the thing that concerns you is the compression and fuming of oil and etc ..and whats going on in the engine that you cant see..
MY thinking is ,back in the day if the old heavy sludgie oils can get to where it did , where will modern day oils get ,so getting information and talking to JP pistons in SA..
the choise of rings became very important , that led to control of oil being as important as even compression..Vern ..
Quote from: my8thholden on January 20, 2024, 07:18:52 AM
Craig ,,I meant to say also ..AS it seems the thing that concerns you is the compression and fuming of oil and etc ..and whats going on in the engine that you cant see..
MY thinking is ,back in the day if the old heavy sludgie oils can get to where it did , where will modern day oils get ,so getting information and talking to JP pistons in SA..
the choise of rings became very important , that led to control of oil being as important as even compression..Vern ..
Thanks Vern,
Appreciate the advice and the heads up on the oil rings. I have used JP on previous builds I have done so I expect I will go back to them if I need pistons/rins etc.
The motor runs really well now that the timing has been adjusted. I am concerned that the compression is still 30-35 psi below spec (from the manual). The fuming isn't a huge concern at the moment as it could well be grubby oil transfer from hands/spills etc starting to burn off. Having said that I have only run the motor a couple of times in 30 -40 second bursts. Certainly the oil pump is working well, the head seems to be in good shape and the rockers are set nicely, the bottom end sounds as though it is in good shape and the the carby operates as it should (although needs a good clean). Electrically the distributor, coil and starter motor are fine.
Once I get hold of a working water pump I'll set it up, along with the generator and regulator, to do a decent run and see what occurs. Along with the observations and post run tests, I can read the plugs, check the electrcial system's major components and have a much better feel for what to focus on when I strip her down.
Engine and box went into the Crewman project yesterday so I will have some space available to on work both motors; the running L series and the non running B. I also now have some room on the hoist to throw the FC roller on to assess the suspension, steering etc and get stuck into the checking/fixing the wiring.
Small steps - but same as eating an elephant - just one bite at a time!
Cheers n Beers
Craig
Had a bit of time to spare this afternoon so off into the shed to tinker.. While I wait for the water pump to arrive I thought I would take a peek inside the FB motor to see what is preventing it from turning over. Dropped what little oil there was and found it to be a little milky - not a great sign. Ripped out the dizzy - she is frozen so will need to do some work there to free it up. Pulled off the rocker cover and side plate - every thing looked OK. Removed the manifolds and found the inlet to No 1 was rusty so at some stage water has entered through the manifold. Didn't appear to be too bad and should clean up fine. Next came the rocker gear - apart from two odd sized bolt heads; the rocker gear came off easily. The push rods all look to be straight and although the oil in a couple of the cam followers seemed to be a bit watery
they had no mushrooming and look to be in quite reasonable shape. Cracked the head and pulled it off. Not what I wanted to see, but what I expected to see. If it was a runner before it was laid up in the shed and the bores were open to the atmosphere the inevitable rust followed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hXFx8jc4/FB-Motor-Strip-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXFx8jc4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3yG3X8rh/FB-Motor-Strip-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yG3X8rh)
Surprisingly, after finding the rust in the inlet to No 1 there was little rust there - but 2, 5 and 6 are quite rusty - unfortunatley a bit beyond surface rust. I doubt that a hone will suffice in getting them back up to speed. The piston tops look fine so I have let them soak in a bit of diesel overnight. I will turn her over tomorrow and see what is hiding under the pan. I trust that the bearings and crank are OK if so this one may be an easy salvage.
If I have it right - the only difference, besides some casting changes, between the FC and FB/EK is the piston size, a change in compression and an increase in oil pressure at idle. I assume the oil pressure was simply a change in the spring. How was the compression increased - head shaved?
So a couple of questions for the wise ones on grey motors in general:
Can the FC block be successfully bored to 138 or was the casting changed to provide more meat to play with?
Is there a discernable difference between the FC and FB/EK head?
Will update you with my bottom end findings tomorrow.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
So I soaked the pistons in a bit of deisel overnight. Turned the old grey over on the stand and stripped out what I could of the bottom end. I'll get to that bit later.
She was definitely and agricultural donk - not too many of the correct nuts and bolts left on her - probably dropped in the paddock when being repaired over time. I guess it tells a bit of a story about the life she probably endured and what probably found its way into the internals of the old girl over time.
This is what I found when I removed the sump:
(https://i.postimg.cc/VSTmNS52/FB-Motor-Strip-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSTmNS52)
While she looked pretty clean; but once I started getting into the important parts things weren't that great.
The first problem I faced is that I couldn't remove the woodruff key from the crank; so the oil slinger won't come off, so the cam can't come out. Applied a bit of heat to the opposite side of the key - still no movement. I have soaked it in WD40 and will have another look tomorrow. Not to be deterred I pulled off all the conrod bearing caps - that was when I noticed that every one of the crankshaft journals was scored. Not bad - but bad enough. It certainly none of them pass the fingernail test. I fully expect the main journals will be in the same condition.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWW4pj9M/FB-Motor-Strip-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWW4pj9M)
As soon as I removed the bearing caps the crank was free. As 3 and 4 pistons were at the top of their stroke I was able to pop them both out with the tap of a wooden drift. No 1 was not rusted so was an easy push through as well. 2, 5 and 6 took a little more persuasion but once they broke free I was able to tap them out gently. Rings were gunked up but all moving freely.
With the pistons out I was able to do some more checks - I had planned on running the verniers over her but decided against it. There is a good wear lip around the top of every cylinder and the rust, particularly in 5 and 6 is more than a little surface rust that will hone out.
Assessment is that a rebore and regrind of the crank journals with the associated pistons, rings and bearings is the minimum that could be done to have her running well again. I'm sure I could get her back running in her current state - but I expect performance would be pretty poor. I guess we will see what the end result is with the 132 before deciding which one to put time and energy into first. I doubt that the extra couple of horses between the two will be all that noticable so I think the 132 is marginally in front - simply bacause she runs and I can keep the engine/ute combo together.
I have been offered a 138 that has been rebuilt so I will keep that as an option once I know what the price will be to get one of these old girls back in shape.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Craig,
You might be surprised about the bore condition and rust. If you're brave, try some phosphoric-acid-based rust converter (eg. Ranex) on the cylinder walls, once the pistons are out. Pull a second compression ring off a piston, run it down to the bottom of the bore, measure the gap, then run the ring right up to just under the lip and measure the gap again. Divide the difference by 3 to give bore wear. My rule of thumb is you're fine with less than 0.005" bore wear, and even up to 0.008" is OK. Don't be in too much of a hurry to regrind the crank. Scored crankpins are normal, unfortunately. The main bearing journals will be the decider. Up to 0.003" wear is OK. Much more than that and your main bearings will be a little noisy.
To remove the Woodruff key, here's a trick I learnt from Harv: using a brass drift, hit down on the rear of the key so the front rises up. Then you can get the drift partially under the key and knock it out. Oil slinger out, then the fun starts.
You need a 1/4" drive 7/16" AF socket for the camshaft thrust washer screws. Any other 7/16" AF socket will not fit through the holes in the timing gear. Camshaft out.
Impact screwdriver with a big straight blade is what you need next, for the front engine plate countersunk screws.
--------------/-------------
The photos suggest that the head gasket was sealing well. That's a plus.
The increase in compression was achieved firstly by a revised combustion chamber design partway through FC, and then an extra 1/16" bore size when the FB came out. Greys are generally good to bore out to 3-1/8" (144 cubes) and sometimes 3-3/16" (149). Given a choice between an L block and a B block, go the B block. The main bearing caps are stronger. And if you can score a J block, use it.
* Are you sure the motor in the photos is a B block? The no. 2 main bearing cap is the early style.
Grey motor oil pumps went through several subtle revisions. The one you'd be thinking of is a change to the body casting to reduce leakage past the gear teeth, but in general grey motors are very tolerant of low oil pressure at idle. The main thing is to check the clearance of the relief valve piston in the bore. Raid a red motor oil pump for the piston and spring if needed.
Cylinder heads: Yes. FX-FC heads are "single-hole" (i.e. only one tapped hole on the left side of the head). FB-EJ heads are "two-hole". Still prone to cracking between the exhaust valve seats though.
That's enough of a brain-dump for now.
Rob
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the brain dump. I'm brave, and have nothing to lose, so I will give the phosphoric acid a crack. I am not that confident in 5/6 coming good as i can feel the pitting. Worth a try; what is there to lose?
I'll check tomorrow and report back.
The brass drift approach was attempt 2 at getting the woodruff key out. I have a 1 1/2x 1 1/2 x 10 in brass bar I nabbed from the old man's tools before my brother got hold of it. She is tight and didn't want to move. Heat was attempt 3, although I didn't try the drift a second time. I'll let it think it has won tonight and have another crack tomorrow. I will defeat it!
Camshaft bolts are already out - no issues there. Just can't pull the cam out because of the oil slinger
Head gasket was doing its job for sure. I have two of Harvs improved gaskets on the way so I can get both motors back to runners keeping one as a spare. I just need to prioritise the effort due on a time basis - looking forward to retirement so time is no longer a restriction.
Motor is definitely stamped as a B block - B27861 so if they are early bearing caps there has been something sinister in there before. I could tell by the assortment of unmatched/overlenght/underlength fasteners that someone with little attention to detail, or working in a paddock, has had a play.
I assume when you are talking about tapped holes in the head that you are referring to the holes into the water jacket for the heater/temp gauge. I have two holes in both heads - the FC and FB. If you are referring to a different tapped hole I am all ears.
Craig,
It may be that the bigger main bearing caps were introduced later in B-motor production. You got me curious now - I have a 3-3/16" B22xxx motor I was planning on warming up a bit.
If you're a good shot with a welder, (no, no, you don't want to risk damaging the crankshaft. Belay that.)
Rob
Rob,
I have plans for warming up the ute as well. So it would be great to hear your plans. At this stage I have sourced a set of triple 1 1/4" SUs and headers. I have sussed out the head work I plan to get done. The provider is Masterstroke Engineering in Sunbury Vic. I was going to ask as I got closer about their reputation and work but seeing as we are here what is known about them? They are offering to crack test, hot tank and blast the head then surface, re-thoat to suit 202 valves (inlet & exhaust), machine port, fit hardened exhaust seats, fit 308 V8 springs & modified retainers (80lbs seat pressure) and supply and install new valve guides, intake & exhaust valves.
I've heard good things about Clive's Cams to regrind the cam to add a bit of spirit but remain good as a daily driver. I expect I will need to have the cam followers refaced and lapped at the same time I get the grind done. I'm not sure about pistons, I don't have a fel for what is available and have not done much research to date so I'm really open to advice on that one. A lightened flywheel and balance and I think I will be done.
Craig ..I'll chime in here ,,if you are basically happy with the engine and say to yourself i'll do this one ..What i would do ..take it to engine machine shop and put it in the pickle bath .. a few bucks , but cheap insurance premium ...then check it all over , crack test , then let the micrometer do the story telling ...and correct use of micrometer , by that I mean , example , when measuring the big end crank journals ,measure each journal in several places along and around it , looking for taper and ovality ,back in the day some engines had one journal only ground undersize .there is lots of things to cover when preparing an engine build..best get the machine shop to measure everything for you ..Vern ..
Quote from: my8thholden on January 24, 2024, 07:54:32 AM
Craig ..I'll chime in here ,,if you are basically happy with the engine and say to yourself i'll do this one ..What i would do ..take it to engine machine shop and put it in the pickle bath .. a few bucks , but cheap insurance premium ...then check it all over , crack test , then let the micrometer do the story telling ...and correct use of micrometer , by that I mean , example , when measuring the big end crank journals ,measure each journal in several places along and around it , looking for taper and ovality ,back in the day some engines had one journal only ground undersize .there is lots of things to cover when preparing an engine build..best get the machine shop to measure everything for you ..Vern ..
Thanks Vern,
Great advice. I have been in contact with two local engine builders and their advice was similar and reasonable value if all they are doing the machine work only. I'll do some more research on oversized pistons but they are a simple purchase. You are 100% correct I need to get the motor into a bath and tested to see if it is even worth progressing. Unless bad things have been heard about Masterstroke Engineering I'll send the head to them and the cam to Clive's Cams. As the B motor isn't a runner and really needs a refresh I'm leaning towards sending it off to be done first. I'm sort of hoping that the L motor will only need a hone and rings to be back up to speed - everything else about that one looks great compared to the B motor.
I have confirmed that both heads are later model two hole heads. The one on L series is M5 2 and the B series B150. If I have it right:
- The L motor head was cast on 5 Dec 62 (52 would be one hole), so out of an EJ
- The B motor head was cast on 15 Feb 60, so probably out of an FB
Cheers Craig
Craig,
Forget what I said about main bearing caps. The number 2 and 3 main bearing caps in 132 blocks have very narrow webbing between the cap bolts. The webbing was widened for the B blocks. Then for the J blocks the number 2 and 3 main bearing caps were enlarged again, with longer bolts to suit.
Anyway, when you pull the sump off the L motor you'll be able to compare.
Rob
Rob,
Got it -thanks for the clarification.
So had another crack at the B motor after lunch.
The woodruff key took a bit of tapping on the nose to come out but she did. The leading edge is a bit manky now, I could file it but cheap enough to get another and keep this one as a "Justin".
Once that was off dismantling was no problems.
Main bearing journals are good - haven't measured them as I only have a set of digital verniers. Potentially just a linish and new bearing caps required.
Once the cam was out I spashed a bit of rust converter about 5, 6 and 2 and after washing it down gave it a hone. Surprisingly I was able to get 90% of the rust removed, still a bit under the lip of 5 and 6 but I was worried about honing it too much just in case it was salvagable inits current state.
So out with the feeler gauges to measure the compression ring gap top and bottom of the cylinder. Based on Rob's >0.005 in methodolgy in relation to wear, five of the six cylinders fail (only just) - but still a fail.
Top Bottom Delta Delta/3 Acceptable
Gauge 1 Gauge 2 Total Gauge 1 Gauge 2 Total Delta Delta/3 ?
0.032 0.014 0.046 0.032 0.014 0.046 0 0 Pass
0.032 0.016 0.048 0.032 0 0.032 0.016 0.0053 Fail
0.032 0.016 0.048 0.032 0 0.032 0.016 0.0053 Fail
0.032 0.016 0.048 0.032 0 0.032 0.016 0.0053 Fail
0.032 0.014 0.046 0.03 0 0.03 0.016 0.0053 Fail
0.032 0.016 0.048 0.032 0 0.032 0.016 0.0053 Fail
|
More telling is the ring gap is double plus the maximum allowable in the manual. So I guess we know why it was pulled out; she would have been pretty low on compression I expect and probably chewing a bit of oil (which probably explains the crud on the piston crowns)
The piston has no markings on the exterior. Holden is cast vertically on one interior wall and 13 on the other side. It measures up, using verniers, so not very accruate, at 3.04in (.02 in) under standard so I expect that they are the original slugs. They don't appear to have been rattling around in the bore so I need to take some more measurements to see if it is simply a case of worn rings. However, given the bore wear is at the limit I think it would be prudent go oversize. If the cam measures up OK I may get out of it lightly.
Next step is to book her into the machine shop for an assessment and we will go from there.
Craig,
Piston diameter measured at the crown is less than across the skirts. It's best to measure across the skirts, at right angles to the piston pin axis.
About ring gaps: My grey FC's motor had 0.070" top ring gap before I re-ringed it, and it ran fine. My Humpy's on its third set of rings, and after the last re-ring job, the top ring gaps were 0.025". It runs OK too.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on January 24, 2024, 05:35:01 PM
Piston diameter measured at the crown is less than across the skirts. It's best to measure across the skirts, at right angles to the piston pin axis.
I took both - the skirt measurement was 3.055 (still under what it should be - but again verniers are an inaccurate way of measuring. I'm sure I could re-ring it and get some more time out of her but I don't want to have to do it again so will take it in and get it cleaned up and measured up then take it from there. Best case is we hone and linish, new rings and bearigns and crack on. Worst case is about $3K in machining - I'm thinking that we will be somewhere in between!
The major show-stopper with re-using pistons is worn top ring grooves. Roll the second compression ring around the top groove and measure the side clearance with a feeler gauge. Anything above 0.003", and your oil consumption will rise.
It'd be interesting to see if your crankshaft is still nominally standard size, given that the pistons appear to be . . .
Rob
Craig ..Mixing of main bearing caps in theory means line boring ..in all engines the caps are mated to that engine ..main bearing cap failure in standard or mildly worked engines is rare ..Rob is correct , pistons are oval , at least below the piston pin ..you can expand the skirt of a piston to reduce " slap " in the bore ..some shops have them . funny little dished cradle with a long arm acts like a hammer ,you roll the skirt backwards and forwards gently , too much and it wont go down the bore ..I dont believe pistons have to go back in the same pot .I put the one that feels right and just seems to be correct in that bore , con rods ???? keep them where they came from unless you suspect something .By the way , weigh all your components and make them the same weight , I have been amazed at the difference between assembled conrods...when I worked in engine reconditioning pistons came in a box of six with rings and pins fitted ,each piston had a coloured paint spot on top , that was your final bore honeing clearance ...you might be doing say 4 engines in a run ,blocks were all cleaned and tested and passed ok to go into the system and be machined ..say all were going to clean up with .040 thou oversize pistons so 4 boxes of pistons drawn from the store clearly marked .040 thou oversize ...open the box some had blue dot , some had red dot etc ..you would look for 4 sets all with same paint colour , saved resetting the wet hone , or even worst not remembering to ..I am talking the 1970's where machines were nothing like today ..so in a way engines are individual from the out set ..We restored a McCormick Deering W4 tractor a couple of years ago , we ordered a set of dry liners from USA , actually made in Mexico ..on arrival the pistons and rings are assembled in the liner ready for drop in ..called an " overnight Kit "we took them apart ,one piston was way heavier than the other 3 ..maybe in low rev tractor not a big deal , we machined it , all even is better than one odd one ..
Thanks for the tips Vern,
I have everything laid out in order so everything can go back into its original spot if it us re-used. My gut feel is the crank will measure up OK and will just need the bigend journals linished. If we do need to do undersize the crank at any point I will undersize the lot and start from "new".
I'm taking my measurements as initial guidance - the bore wear has me preparing to go oversize so new pistons and will definitely get them to balance before I put it back together. I have been looking at pistons and the range in prices is extraodrinary - $300 on eBay to $1050 for JP from Auto Surplus (Auto Surplus have them cheaper on eBay too). My eperience with JP has been good; however, a $700 saving is something to look at. I have no ideas as to the quality of the eBay slugs.
I'd be interested to hear about the experience of others while I continue to investigate. $700 may be having a lend because it is "old" or the right sum for good quality. I trust there is some wisdom in the forum to help me out. I'd rather learn from wisdom than learn from my mistakes.
Craig ..Yes pricing today is crazy ...and your right a lot of it doesn't make sense...and car parts is one of the most baffling unfathoumamble ( you like that word )
I see sets of piston and rings in Standard sizes are considerably less expensive than oversize ..If your " L " engine if standard or first or second oversize and needs a bore , why not 3.1/16 "STD ..more choise out there ..there is a guy on this forum who is a private reconditioner down south coast I believe , he probably has those in stock and just needs a customer like you ..at least you will know exactly what your getting ..some one will know him and post his details hopefully ..Vern
Brad Stephens at Mogo Vern?
Sent from my SM-T865 using Tapatalk
Hi Team
I have been working hard on the hose reno, just got the new trusses up and resheeted; still got a tarp over one end as I don't have the ridge cap finished. Still a long way to go - so not much preogress on the ute. We did get the Crewman project finished and off the hoist - big job converting a pov pack V6 to an SS including aircon etc but running and ready for rego once we get a new windscreen fitted.
So the ute went upon the hoist for its first real good inspection. A bit of surface rust around the floor repairs; whcih had been done pretty well by the previous owner. From the undersdie I did spot a coupl of pinholes in the front floor; but where it has already been repaired so I expect missed welds but I will have a better look soon. Around the fuel tank does need some work - I haven't asessed it in detail to see if I can patch up the holes or if I will need to cut the two sections out and fabricate something to fix it. Certainly not major rust so pretty happy.
The front end - not so good. Both king pins have play - drivers side worse than passengers. I have a HR front end but I will save that until after I get it re-registered on standard plates. I will need to strip it down to determine what is worn and how badly before making a decision on how to resolve that one.
I trust that the pins themselves are OK and I am looking at new bushes. I note that there was a specific reaming tool for the FC - can only find EH ones on the interweb at the moment. Does anyone have an excess reaming tool that they would be willing topart with; or alternatviely have purchased a suitable modern reamer with guide that they have found works. If so i would love to know the brand/kit to save a heap of research.
Will post some photos soon - off to our local Toyaot dealer to have a chat about a 79 series V8 cruiser in preparation for our big lap!
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Craig,
I have a Warren and Brown reamer to suit FX-FC king pins.
It's unlikely you'll be able to get by with replacing just the bushes (and then I remember I did just that . . .).
The Rare Spares king pin kits are supplied with 0.010" oversize pins. This is good in that you don't have to replace the old bushes. It is bad in that you have to machine out the steering knuckle supports to take the larger pin. I have it on good authority (Drew at FB-EK) that this operation is a complete pain in the arse, due to the difficulty of setting up the steering knuckle support in a machine, and the hardness of the forging.
So - check the fit of the pins in the uprights. They're supposed to be almost size-for-size, but the king pins often loosen, start to rock, and flog out the hole in the upright. If your pins don't rock in the uprights, you may be able to replace the bushes only, if the pins aren't worn.
See https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=26930.0
Rob
Hi Rob
Thanks for the update I'll pull it down and develop a plan to tackle it from there.
Cheers
Craig
A little progress - but slow!
The house reno progresses - so not much time for the FC at the moment.
On the house I have the new ensuite 90% finished (so Mrs J is happy) and we are in the middle of applying mud to the gyprock in preparation for sanding/painting. I still have the main bathroom/laundry to go before my work is done and I can hand it over the the cabinet maker/flooring guys to finish. As I am a builder/sparkie it is hard to be motivated to work on my own place after a solid week on the tools at work.
I have managed to purchase one of the last V8 cruisers in preparation for our big lap and spent time fitting the bullbar, sidesteps, tray and canopy. I Still have the 12V electric fitout to knock and a reversing camera to add. The 12V system can wait but the reversing camera will get some priority!
But not all has been lost - I have been gathering parts and checking off what I can when I can. I hav gathered the following so I can crack on as soon as time allows: a speco alloy rocker cover, a good set of hub caps, a really good condition light switch (to go with my five average ones), two average FE dash clusters (both with non working fuel gauges), a choke cable, a bonnet bird, a reproduction owners manual and wallet, a pristine Good Housekeeping in Your Car booklet, an under dash parcel shelf, a chinesium version of a Kleerscreen windscreen washer system and windscreen washer jets. I also took a punt on a restored FB head (thanks for the advice from the forum - it helped me take the punt). The head it is still in transit so I won't know what I have purchased for sure for a week or so. Will it be gold or will it be a lemon - time will tell.
The FB motor has been stripped down and is ready to go to the machinists - just got to find some time to get there and some $ to get it done. I have not progressed the original FC motor and box any further and the kingpins are still flopping about in the breeze. I have made lasts for the armrests, they just have to be sanded back so I can produce the moulds and then cast the first fibreglass set. Thanks to Glen for providing me with an old passenger side one to copy. The front quarter windows have been stripped down and are ready to be rechromed. I need to purchase the rivet kits and a couple of handles - they appear to be readily available from Rare Spares/Resto Country. I now have all of the other chrome less one guard spear and the grille badge. I can live without both if I have to. I have "resoldered" the tailgate emblem together and trust it can be rechromed. I have been unable to get the torn bumperette back into alignment as yet - I think it may have to be sent to a panel beater to be repaired. The other bits I will need to send away to get done are: the front seat (although it is useable - just covered in a horrid blue curtain material), the roof lining and visor covers and I will need to purchase door cards.
So although progress is slow it has not stopped. We are inching towards the end goal, which is frustrating, but I did promise Mrs J that I would renovate the house before I started on the FC. We all know the saying ..."happy wife, happy life!"
Thanks for the update Craig. You did well to get the v8 cruiser I reckon. I bought a 76 wagon, the single turbo engine 3 1/2 years ago now with 90,000km on it. It is pre DPF, pre piezo injectors which is good, but the overdrive is only about 10%, and has the stump puller 1st and 2nd gears. Ideal for towing though and gets 12 litres per 100km with everyday driving. It will outlast my driving career I hope. Paid $45k back then but hey, it is a 2011 build. Just didn’t get driven much. I’ve only clocked it up t 120,000 since then.
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We continue to plug along with the collection of FC parts in parallel with the resto of the house. I expect the house will be complete by Christmas - 90% of the tiling has been completed in the bathroom so I just need to finish it off this weekend and connect up the plumbing. Then all that is required is to sand Gyprock in the hallway and then paint it, the new office and two bedroomsthen install three fans and six exterior lights. We are finally on the home stretch!
On the FC front we now have a full set of bumparettes, I have sourced the components to build the generator test set, and I have been working with Glenn (Street Trim) to come up with a plan for the interior. I have already sourced a headliner so that part is good. I have decided to run with a late FC Special interior - embossed two tone seat and tow tone door trims (Fall Red and Black). With the help of Glenn and Phil we were able to cobble together the stainless trim and an arm rest for the driver's door and I have located "touch wood" a complete passenger door card including arm rest. That is to be delivered at SummerNats so it will be early next year before that gets completed.
We have purchased the components to build the generator test set, and I also picked up a working AVO meter that was built in March 1958. (Not that I need another mulit-meter as a sparky). The AVO Meter will be put to work in the shed and will eventually be part of a "working display" of old tools.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX9WLtQM/20241212-104041.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX9WLtQM)
This morning I found a set of ute guard spears on Gumtree - just waiting on them to get back to me with a price on postage so I trust that is now all sewn up.
I have also identifed a machine shop to machine the steering knuckle supports to enable me to fit the 10 thou oversized king pins from Rare Spares. That is another job for early in the new year along with the machining of the engine.
So I think the last thing I am really chasing before I get started is the rotisserie - easy enough to pick up - just nothing has come up locally yet. Then the fun part begins!
Good luck Craig 👍
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I picked up the door card yesterday. Unfortunately the top stainless trim is missing and the centre trim is bent and creased.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jnLmPddj/20250105-113912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnLmPddj)
I will need to make a couple of custom dollys to work inside the damaged trim to get back into shape. I am a little concerned about working the trim cold given the depth of the crease. It doesn't look as bad in the photo as it does in real life. I have not worked on such thin stainless that is creased this badly. My current plan is to heat it with MAP and work it slowly; however, this is me thinking through the problem - not through expereience. Any experience based wisdom would be of great value before I start on this part of the process would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers n Beers
It has been a while since I posted and update the ute. But to get to that we need to get a feel for where we are on the house reno!
The house reno is almost complete - ensuite complete, bathroom 97%, painting 90%. I have spent weeks lifting the old vinyl floor planks and stapled MDF underlay in preparation for the new flooring (which is to be laid next week). So I am up agaisnt the clock to have the skirts installed and painted this weekend. Nothing like a bit of pressure!
The best thing about the house reno coming to an end is that the FC resto can get into full swing. It will be a bit like Kingswood Country though - have to move the bikes to the get the FC off the hoist. Get the capri convertible out of one garage bay and put it on the hoist so I can work on the ute. That is much easier said than done - but it will be a great milestone to finally hit.
Despite the reno taking up most of my time I haven't been completely idle. Glenn has all of the parts and is in the process of building me up a set of FC special door cards and late model FC special seat covers, customised for a ute, in fall red and black. I have also purchased a set of stainless scuff plates from Sam Crupi to replace the rusted versions I currently have and I have a new rubber mat being made by Martin at Obsolete Rubber. However, I haven't progressed any further with the engine rebuild or any of the chrome work as yet.
I chased high and low for a second hand rotisserie and I was either too late or too far away to win any offers I put in on them, or the postage made them dearer to buy than a new one. So I bit the bullet and purchased a new one (don't have the time to build one). It will be a longer term investment as the sons and I have a couple of other projects to get stuck into once the FC is finished. Suffice to say - it was delivered last week and, sure as eggs, today one comes up at Wollongong for a few hundred beer tokens less. Always the way!
So there should be some real progess made towards the end of March - only to be interupted by a holiday doing the Darling river run over the Easter/ANZAC Day period.
Just got to take one bite at a time! We are crawling towards the end.
So an exiting day today. Started on the body of the ute.
The week before last saw the completion of the internal reno of the house and last weekend we had friends visit so I was busiy socialising. I took a day off work today and moved the bikes, shifted the wife's project (capri convertible) out, got the FC off the hoist and shuffled it all back around - wife's project on the hoist, bikes back in FC into the project bay.
That is about where the excitement finished! I thought I would take the front subrame assembly out and mount the ute on the rotisserie. Disconnected all of the bits that I needed to, got the old girl on some stands and started on the job. Three bolts and a couple of screws on each side, two bolts each side at the bottom and pull it out complete then strip away the crossmember etc on the ground.
Supported the assempby with a jack and some stands and started removing the bolts at the top - a few a little frozen bit get there with little fuss. Then to the bottom - only to find two nuts on each side. Seemed odd, one nut magically came off the other spinning on the bolt. Can't get to the bolt head as it is inside the sill area. Soaked it with some WD 40 while I had a think about it. Went back to the drivers side and tried to push the bolt in so I could get the assembly out, It would only push back a short distance - not enough to be able to prise the subframe over.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FfXrfgJ8/20250612-160712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfXrfgJ8)
Went back to the passenger side and no luck, ended up pounding away with a cold chisel for about 1/2 hour and the nut split (so lucky). I was able to push that bolt back far enough to lever the sub frame arm out but the weight of the cross memeber made removinf the ineer bolts impossible. After wasting my time with jacks etc I removed the cross member and with a bit of persuasion and jiggling I was able to get the inner bots out. With a few more swear words I got passenger side of the sub frame out, rotated the frame a bit and was then abot to pull the assembly off the other bolt.
Both side had had rust repairs done - average work to say the least as you can see throughpinholes in the welds. I expect that the bottom of the A pillars were rusted out so old mate put bolts in from the outside. Glad he didn't weld them otherwise I would be up the creek. Anyway will have to undo his repair and weld in some captive nuts so I can get it back together. Didn't get an opportunity to get it mounted on the rotisserie as I ran out of time. Maybe tomorrow.
I found heaps of mud wasp nests inside the passenger side A pillar and more pinholes in the floor after using the persuader for a bit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKHGfPLR/20250612-160637.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKHGfPLR)
Still in pretty good nick for her age but now I have the guards and the like off some of the repairs coudl be better. He also welded the some of the sheet metal together instead of using screws. Looks neat but wil never be able to do a repair so I may have to chase some new bits. Once I cut out the bottom sill to remove the free spinning bolts I will have a better feel for how much work is involved.
Plan is to mount the rotisserie to the spring mounts at the rear and to the upper mounting points for the subframe at the front. With a bit of luck I will be able to get the mounts made up tomorrow and start towards getting the old girl rust free and ready for paint.
(https://i.postimg.cc/q6TM9cp2/20250612-160654.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6TM9cp2)
I got the front mounted fine, using a level to ensure everything was good to go. I pulled the mounts for the rotisserie out and found that they aren't level but have a rise. I thought that they were raised so that the weight would pull them down to level. It didn't, but I was able to secure the front end and support it so I could get the rear end off and ready to mount. I will need to make up new mounts from the rotisserie to the front end that match the mounting system that was fabricated.
Moved the the rear end and was able to get the diff and spring shackles out pretty easily. I haven't been able to remove the front spring mounts yet; they have resisted all of my efforts. The manual simply says to knock the frotn shackle pins out, but my efforts with the brass hammer and 4ib sldge hammer with brass drift have had no effect. Any thoughts on how to approach this? I am thinking about applying a bit of heat and then bashing away with the brass hammer again but if there is a better method I'm all for it.
I have rethought the rear mounting system and have decided to it from some 5mm plate I have laying about. One for each bumprrette mount with a 100 x 100 x 5mm RHS between. I will mount cross bar to the rotisserie first and then tack it to the plates so I have the angles right. Looking forward to getting that done so I can really get stuck into the rust repairs.
Made up the rear brackets today - 5mm plate and 5mm RHS off the bar mounting points. Raised it on the rotisserie and turned it over to have another crack at the front spring mounting bolts. After days with WD40 penetrating the rust I still couldn't get them out - either side. I think I will be forced to cut the bolts, remove the springs and work on what's left. Rotisserie woild well and thanks to the forum I was able to get the centre of gravity right first go.
Front bolts for the rear springs?
They're very difficult to remove. If no joy with WD-40, then use heat. Go in hard with a MAP gas torch on the bracket where bolt head goes through. You'll need two people and two sledgehammers: one holding a hammer onto the inner bracket to act as a dolly and the second on the bolt. Unscrew the nut flush with the end of the bolt so you don't moosh the thread. With perseverance the bolt will let go. If it doesn't let go, use more heat on the inner bracket. Even up to cherry red.
(If you're not a good shot with the hammer, you may ding the sill. That's the price you've got to pay.)
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on June 20, 2025, 04:32:51 PM
Front bolts for the rear springs?
They're very difficult to remove. If no joy with WD-40, then use heat. Go in hard with a MAP gas torch on the bracket where bolt head goes through. You'll need two people and two sledgehammers: one holding a hammer onto the inner bracket to act as a dolly and the second on the bolt. Unscrew the nut flush with the end of the bolt so you don't moosh the thread. With perseverance the bolt will let go. If it doesn't let go, use more heat on the inner bracket. Even up to cherry red.
(If you're not a good shot with the hammer, you may ding the sill. That's the price you've got to pay.)
Rob
Thanks Rob,
I got them out - WD40 didn't work and neither did heat and two hammers initially. I ended up cutting the bolts with an angle grinder and then hitting the head out with heat, a punch and a couple of hammers. Unfortunately a waste of two perfectly good front shackle bolts as the previous owner had replaced the rubbers and bolts when he started the resto. They had been in place for over 20 years so the rubbers has started to split on the outside but apart from that were in perfect condition. The spring pack shims between the leaves were all but not existent so probably just saved the springs.
The springs don't appear to be original and are beefed up from the standard ute springs shown in the manuals. The first giveaway was the addtional two bottom springs under the standard ute 6 leaf pack of 6 springs. The second being that metric nuts and bolts used in the leaf pack. Coould be a standard leaf pack that has been beefed up - not sure how to tell though.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gLXkbHcP/20250623-122531.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gLXkbHcP)
Good that you got the springs out. I'd be mortally afraid of shattering an angle grinder disc given how little space there is between the spring eyes and the body.
Take a good look at the spring leaves in the six-leaf pack. The original leaves taper down to a couple of millimetres thick at the ends; and the ends of the leaves are curved. Aftermarket spring leaves generally don't taper in thickness toward the ends, and the ends are usually chamfered. And I wouldn't be surprised if aftermarket spring leaves are 50 mm wide instead of 2" (= 50.8 mm). You'd hardly tell the difference in width.
The rear spring centre bolt is 5/16" UNF originally, but M8 is an almost exact equivalent in diameter.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on June 23, 2025, 09:14:50 PM
Good that you got the springs out. I'd be mortally afraid of shattering an angle grinder disc given how little space there is between the spring eyes and the body.
Take a good look at the spring leaves in the six-leaf pack. The original leaves taper down to a couple of millimetres thick at the ends; and the ends of the leaves are curved. Aftermarket spring leaves generally don't taper in thickness toward the ends, and the ends are usually chamfered. And I wouldn't be surprised if aftermarket spring leaves are 50 mm wide instead of 2" (= 50.8 mm). You'd hardly tell the difference in width.
The rear spring centre bolt is 5/16" UNF originally, but M8 is an almost exact equivalent in diameter.
Rob
The leaves are 2", both the six leaf pack and the addtional two. The six leaf pack appears to be an original set from a ute/wagon as they are tapered and rounded as you would expect.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sMbHMQLj/20250624-184002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMbHMQLj)
The addtional two bottom leaves do not taper and have square ends with rounded edges.
I expect that they are aftermarket overload springs but haven't been able to find anything in my research.
I don't have any history on the ute except that it was from the Dubbo area.
When I pulled the leaf pack apart it didn't take much effort on the clamp to pull the leaves in to undo the bolts; so think that they are performing a lowering function.
Seems my theory was right. I found this reference to Rogers Overload Leaves in the accessory of the week section.
https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=13115.msg78351#msg78351 (https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=13115.msg78351#msg78351)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PCQXQwg4/Springs.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCQXQwg4)
Hey Jolls.
Good to see the Accessory of the week section put to good use.
I also have a set that is only half the accessory spring.
Regards
Alex
Quote from: Jolls on June 24, 2025, 08:50:44 PM
When I pulled the leaf pack apart it didn't take much effort on the clamp to pull the leaves in to undo the bolts; so think that they are performing a lowering function.
Correcting the previous post in case someone is reading this down the track regarding the springs:
"When I pulled the leaf pack apart it didn't take much effort on the clamp to pull the leaves in to undo the bolts; so
I don't think that they are performing a lowering function.
Got to work on the fuel tank and surrounds today. Tank still had a bit of fuel in it despite it being drained from the bottom of the tank. Interior and exterior look OK - I haven't removed the fuel sender unit yet to see if it is working - next on the agenda to do.
While everything looked pretty good rust wise it didn't take much work with the wire brush to reveal some gremlins at the front of the tank.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K1KJGxmh/20250625-122126.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1KJGxmh)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dhznDp0k/20250625-122137.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhznDp0k)
The rear looks and feels solid. Some of the holes aren't rust - looks like they have been punched with a nail or something similarr to get water out. Fortunatley both corners appear solid so I think I can cut out the rusted lips and make up a replacements with a bit of work with a hammer and anvil. The small sections around the lip I will cut out one at a time.
The rest of the body looks to be pretty much rust free or it has had a previous rust repairs. The unfortunatley they chose to weld repair sections in behind the rust as opposed to removing the rust so I will need to cut out some sections of the old material to save them from becoming the next problem I have to deal with. Better to do it right once than do it twice.
There are also some pin holes in the welds that I should be able to touch up with the MIG to seal it all up.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ftgVRnw1/20250625-122248.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ftgVRnw1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/T5Lpy711/20250625-122306.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T5Lpy711)
I expect I will find some more repairs to do when I go over the body inch by inch but pretty happy with what we have to work with so far.
The guards are a different story, both have been repaired and again the repair has been done behind the panel. I suspect that the hole in the panel has then been filled with bog. I will need to get in there and have a good look at what has ben done to determine if I do some rework or seal the back of the repairs and let them be.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0494HJT/20250625-122338.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0494HJT)
Started on the front end this morning
Ripped off the drums - no shoes and the brake shoe link pin bolt was missing on the driver's side. So another part to chase. The drums need to be machined, I trust that there is enough meat left in them to be of some use.
One of the mounting bolts snapped off in the driver's side brake cyclnder when I wqs removing it from the backing plate, so I will need to drill it out. Both wheel cylinders are seized so still a bit of work to do there.
Checked the king pins for play - driver's side was worse that the passengers but both need to be done. I have already purchased a kit from Rares so it will be off the the machine shop to get that job done.
Another bolt snapped off undoing the passenger shock absorber mounting plate - so I will have to grind it out and weld in a replacement.
As the crossmember is out of the ute I used a tie down strap to hold the spring under tension while I removed the upper and lower steering knuckle pins to removed the steering knuckles and stub axle from each side. Once I had the sterring knuckle removed I released the tie down to and removed the springs. Very easy solution to the problem of doing this out of the vehicle. The springs had a separate ring in addtion to the insulating spacer and shim on the driver's side. Not sure what the go is there so I posted a question in the technical thread.
(https://i.postimg.cc/svpMGbW0/20250626-123509.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svpMGbW0)
The upper and lower control arms were checked for play and were fine. I removed them though as the rubbers were perished and it provided an opportunity to clean off the dirt and road grime.
So all ready to go back together once I get the kingpins replaced. Ineed to wade through the rubber kit that was provided to see if I have all of the compnents I need to put it back together. If not Speeds Spares in Canberra is not too far and they are a Rare's distributor.
While I was in the shed I painted the rear spring leaves - in Rustoleum Orange (had it on the shelf from another project). I'm a wests tigers supported so with the bottom of the car black and orange springs I'll be doing my bit to support them. ;D ;D ;D
Jolls ..My FC sedan 1958 Sydney build never had seperate rear blinkers ..tail/ brake lights blinked in the top red lense ..bottom lense clear but doing nothing ..I got some globe holders , EK wiring diagram , put in the extra couple of wires as per that diagram , new blinker canister , and fitted amber LED globes ...for me its a safety thing , in general traffic we see amber blinkers all the time ..people dont see a blinking brake light in red ..poor old bugger got his wiring mixed up , his brake is blinking not his blinker lense ...win/win ..Vern ..
Quote from: my8thholden on June 27, 2025, 09:03:02 AM
Jolls ..My FC sedan 1958 Sydney build never had seperate rear blinkers ..tail/ brake lights blinked in the top red lense ..bottom lense clear but doing nothing ..I got some globe holders , EK wiring diagram , put in the extra couple of wires as per that diagram , new blinker canister , and fitted amber LED globes ...for me its a safety thing , in general traffic we see amber blinkers all the time ..people dont see a blinking brake light in red ..poor old bugger got his wiring mixed up , his brake is blinking not his blinker lense ...win/win ..Vern ..
Thanks Vern,
I have purchased some orange/white LEDs and will use the clear lower lens so I can have both the reverse lights and indicators. My original plan was for blinking red as that was how my old FC worked as well - but I saw the logic of this argument. There is still part of me that wants to keep it original though. maybe I can hide a switch to flick between the two and be the poor old bugger when I feel like it. :D :D Just kidding - safety wins over!
Between work today I was able to sneak in a little effort on the ute.
I wanted to prep te fuel tank to be sealed with POR 15, but when I went to pull out the fuel sender yesterday I found it had been sealed in with what looked like JB Weld. It was certainly harder than body filler and was grey in colour. My plan was to clean the tank to prevent a vapour explosion from sparks and then grind out the JB Weld with a an angle grinder and the dremmel. When I took it outside in the sun to start this I noticed one edge looke like it was lifting so I grabbed a cold chisel and a hammer and took to it as an experiment. It started to flake off in small chunks so I kept going and half and hour later I had exposed the cap over the sender unit and with a bit of effort I was able to pry it out. The "sealant" material did not stick to the tank itself but was bonded to the sender cover. I was able to get if off with a bit of effort on the wire wheel. I can only imagine that the fuel sender was leaking so it was sealed in.
I removed the sender unit - it was stuck solid in the empty postion. The tank insides are heavily varnished so it will take a bit of work to prep it for the POR. I put the tank aside and focussed my effort on the sender unit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/34yfbLxG/20250627-104428.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/34yfbLxG)
First job was to blast the crud off the outside - took a couple of minutes to do and it looked good I drilled out the rivets and separated the rheostat from the moving contact.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjjJF7tK/20250627-112425.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjjJF7tK)
The internals were covered in varnish and stuck solid. I could not get any movement.
(https://i.postimg.cc/D8j283fh/20250627-113028.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8j283fh)
Not wanting to break anything I decided to stick the float and contact into some fresh fuel to "melt" the varnish. I cut off the float so it would fit in a small jar and soaked it for a while - no luck with that.
I had the twin carbies lined up to go into the untrasonic cleaner so I hit the added some more fuel to the glass jar and stuck that in with the hot water and finish dishwashing tablets amd let the untrasonic cleaner do its thing.
The fuel sender parts came out clean on the outside but still had varnish on the inside - but the varnish just flaked off when touched - so a couple so minutes with a pick and small falt screwdriver and the interior was clean.
The heat and vibrations had softened up the fuel varnish so I was bale to slowly get the float arm to move and finally with a few more dips in the warm fuel and a bit of carby cleaner spray the movement freed up. A quick check for continuity and then resistance readings 0.2 ohms at empty and 33 ohms at full and we had enough to make a functioning fuel sender.
So I used the MIG to weld the float arm back on and we were good to go. Hand assembled and tested it could get the full range of movement and had 0 ohms at empty and 32 ohms at full. Close enough for me so now it is a matter of finding some brass rivets of the right size and we have saved about 180 beer tokens.
As for the carbies - came out clean - still need to go over them.
So today I completed the leaf packs - new bolts, spring liners and a lovely orange rustoleum finish (Wests Tigers underbody colour scheme :D) The front springs have been rubbed back and repainted to match.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRNn98kC/20250702-161934.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRNn98kC)
The old girl is now completely stripped less the wiring from the cab to the tailights. I have left them in place so I can pull a draw wire through next time I am out there. The wiring harness is missing a few components so I will need to do an audit on the harness to order the missing components and cables in the right colour schem. That will be a fun task! As it was a commercial vehicle I will need to add the missing bits that I will be adding:
- Reverse lights
- Radio
- Cigar Lighter
- Dome light switches
- Brake Warning Light
- Glove Box Light
- Ignition Switch Light and
- Indicators (including converting the brake light indicator to a combination reverse (white) and indicator (orange) LED
I bit the bullet and purchased a rotisserie for this build - why I didn't fork out the $ previouslyis beyond me. It is so much easier to work on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/WqcMyD7c/20250702-161544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqcMyD7c)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRxb9pb5/20250702-161555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRxb9pb5)
I think I spun her around a dozen times to get most of the dirt and dust out. It is still coming out of the rails so I will need to get some air/leave on rust converter and fish oil in them.
Found some addtional rust under the cowl - not too bad and identifed some "bog" based panel damage repairs just behind both doors - so I will have to sand out the bog, beat the dents out a little prep for paint. The rest of the body is straight. I identified a little more rust to be repaired but pretty straight forward repairs. The most challenging being aroudn the fult tank. the POR is in the post so I will get some fuel rated JB weld to deal with any pinholes I find.
I found that there wouldn't have been room to pein over solid rivets in the fuel sender. I have riveted it using blind rivets with a standard gun and will seal the rivets with POR to prevent leaks.
Progressing slowly but surely!
Jolls ..I had to clean out the fuel system on a fire fighting pump , left in a shed for ages and probably had E10 fuel go dry ...Citrus based paint stripper , can't recall the brand , but it was in a orange coloured tin , did a brilliant job ... Vern ..
Quote from: my8thholden on July 03, 2025, 07:28:35 AM
Jolls ..I had to clean out the fuel system on a fire fighting pump , left in a shed for ages and probably had E10 fuel go dry ...Citrus based paint stripper , can't recall the brand , but it was in a orange coloured tin , did a brilliant job ... Vern ..
Thanks Vern,
Great tip - I think I know the one you are referring to. Will give it a crack while I'm wating for the POR to arrive.
Cheers
So where are we up to:
I had rust in 2/3 of the lip around the fuel tank that was beyond saving. I was in the process of doing the research to purchase a bead roller so I could make a replacement. I had thought about it overnight and was going to place an order late last week when I wandered past a damaged door from Son 2's VZ crewman project. I noticed that it had a moulded line down in the middle of the door. It looked close to the lip I needed to create in the rusted sections I had to cut out. I cut it out the section with a grinder and hey presto; almost identical form.
That was the inspiration I needed. So armed with a grinder and some cutting discs I went to work on the rusted sections, leaving the reinforced corners so I had something to weld to. I tacked in the straight bits in then sliced some smaller sections through the back so I could bend them to the corner profiles and tacked them in. Once that was done the back of the curved sections were reinforeced and the missing wedge sections plug welded. Back then to finishing the welds on the new lip and one major job completed. From there I plated some rust sections in the rear floor. I still need to go back and plate them from the other side and weld a couple of rusted flange sections of the cross member in place. All in all happy with the progress.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K4R0t7gk/20250704-173404.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K4R0t7gk)
Prepping the cam to go off and be reground I found one of the cam followers was damaged - so I am on the hunt of a replacement (just one). The one I require is to suit a 10 5/16" pushrod. The intenal depth of the lifter is 1 13/16" (1.852"/47.04mm) as opposed to 1 5/8" on the later version. I have posted on FB chasing a replacement - but if you have a spare handy I'd be happy to part with a few beer tokens.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRDWcPk1/20250709-161555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRDWcPk1)
Prepping the engine to go off for a refresh and I found that the oil pressure relief valve in the oil pump was rusted in place. With some advice from Rob I set out to extract it using a a nut and bolt by cutting a thread into the internal of the valve and then using a nut to extract it. The process itself failed but in cutting the thread the valve came loose and I was able to remove it. I need to purchase a new 9mm tap to replace the damaged one but at least the oil pump was saved from the tip. I ordered an oil pump rebuild kit from Auto Surplus (was cheaper on ePay than it was on their site - unusual).
So the motor is now good to go to the machine shop to be inspected and we will make a plan for the refresh once we know what needs to be done. The concept at the moment is to up the compression a little, what size slug and from where will depend on the assessment of the block, shave the head a little and machine it to accept 202 valves. I was thinking of lightening the flywheel a bit but have scrapped that idea as I plan to run a .355/.336 diff centre and the mass will be helpful there. I have a set of twin strombergs and triple SU's to handle the fueling side of the house, no decision on which solution as yet, and the extractors have already been purchased.
The king pins are in being done so that is the start of the steering refurb.
POR arrived during the week so next on the list is to seal the fuel tank and get back to work on the rust issues and reinforcing the floor pan for seat belts. I'm not going to fit the seat belts until after I get the old girl registered to save on having the engineer the whole setup.
Go the SUs Jolls, you won’t be sorry. As long as the throttle shafts are in good condition, floats, needle and seats and new jets and hopefully already got the right needles and springs for your tune, they are simple, robust and efficient.
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Craig,
A.t.m. I only have the later cam followers. But the service note says you're OK to use them in the earlier engines if you use a late follower with a short pushrod.
If you have no luck finding an earlier follower I'm happy to send you a late follower plus short pushrod.
Rob
Quote from: Errol62 on July 12, 2025, 08:44:50 AM
Go the SUs Jolls, you won’t be sorry. As long as the throttle shafts are in good condition, floats, needle and seats and new jets and hopefully already got the right needles and springs for your tune, they are simple, robust and efficient.
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The SUs are in good condition and I am fortunate to have a good friend who has a business restoring carbs a few of properties over. I was keeping hold of the twins just in case there is an issue in getting her past the initial blue slip. Not sure how that would be viewed.
Once finished she will be a "work ute" in the excavation side of our business. Work as in mobile advertising!
This is the first draft of the advertsing concept - not done by me. It is a bit over the top. The Scooby mobile swirls and the modern book now thing will defeintely not get a run and the writing will be less over the top but you can get the gist.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4KZfHqKs/Yass-Holden-Ute-Design.png) (https://postimg.cc/4KZfHqKs)
Quote from: ardiesse on July 12, 2025, 06:39:26 PM
Craig,
A.t.m. I only have the later cam followers. But the service note says you're OK to use them in the earlier engines if you use a late follower with a short pushrod.
If you have no luck finding an earlier follower I'm happy to send you a late follower plus short pushrod.
Rob
Thanks Rob, I appreciate the offer. I think I have secured a couple of the right followers on their way on Monday.
Cheers
Craig,
I just read your post in "Parts Wanted". Cam follower with a piece missing from the side . . .
So your engine had a stuck valve at some point.
You'd be surprised how many grey motors have cam followers with pieces missing from the sides. Doesn't affect how the engine runs at all.
Check pushrod carefully to ensure it's not bent; or that it has been straightened successfully.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on July 12, 2025, 08:28:02 PM
Craig,
I just read your post in "Parts Wanted". Cam follower with a piece missing from the side . . .
So your engine had a stuck valve at some point.
You'd be surprised how many grey motors have cam followers with pieces missing from the sides. Doesn't affect how the engine runs at all.
Check pushrod carefully to ensure it's not bent; or that it has been straightened successfully.
Rob
Hi Rob,
Thanks, yes checking pushrods and the lifter bore for damage.
Cheers
Craig
Quote from: Jolls on July 12, 2025, 08:49:17 PM
Hi Rob,
Thanks, yes checking pushrods and the lifter bore for damage.
Cheers
Craig
Checked and all good.
Some big muscle movements today - but not all great news
The FB bottom end is now in with Phillip Head Services to be thoroughly checked so we can come up with a refresh plan. We expect to know how it measures up by the end of next week.
Head has been stripped and we are now waiting for a courier from Masterstroke Engineering to pick it up to have the head work done.
Oil pump kit arrived in the post so that will be rebuilt tomorrow.
Two second hand cam followers in the post from QLD (one replacement and one spare). Once they arrive the cam and followers will be posted off the Clive Cams for a regrind.
I dropped into Quenabeyan to have a chat about the chromework - that is where the plan unravelled a bit. Electroplating Technology is not taking work on as they have a government contract and even if they did they are no longer doing any pot metal plating. So I need to rethink that solution - any recommendations to get the bright bits done?
Unfortunately a lot of places are giving up on rechroming the crappy old pot castings cheapskates at GMH used in the day. Too many warranty claims. Things like door handles you can get new from rares. As to the rest I rely on the best used stuff I can find.
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$250 will get you a front pair of handles from Kingswood country or Rare Spares.
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Quote from: Errol62 on July 15, 2025, 10:24:57 PM
Unfortunately a lot of places are giving up on rechroming the crappy old pot castings cheapskates at GMH used in the day. Too many warranty claims. Things like door handles you can get new from rares. As to the rest I rely on the best used stuff I can find.
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I have collected over the last couple of years all of the bits I need and hve them pulled down and boxed up to be rechromed - had I been more aware I would have collected different parts. For example I have commercial headlight and tail light surrounds as they didn't need to be stripped etc. Not a huge issue - but definitley a step backwards and time wasted. I have repaired some damaged chrome parts so still ned to get those done - no problem I can get by with what I have and replace them as I find better components. I was looking into the home chroming kits last night - not sure of the quality of the finish and my ability to do all of the prep work required to get a decent job.
Rares will help of course.
Cheers
I actually like the painted tail light surrounds
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The cam followers arrived on Friday so today I was prepping the cam to be sent off to Clive's Cams to be reground. The fibre gear had damaged teeth so I have already sourced an allowy gear as a replacement. I thought it best to remove the fibre timing gear to make it easier to post. I was going to follow Harv's guide on removing the timing gear using a press but couldn't get the cam to mount safely. Not to be deterred I opted to try a two legged puller bolted through the timing gear as an option - this just resulted in the timing gear separating from the steel centre - I probably should have gone straight to Harv's alternate method of grind and hammer. No great loss as with the fibre gear seaparated in two I an already part way through the grind/hammer method.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zywxhpXd/20250721-164002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zywxhpXd)
Tomorrow I will cut through the timing gear centre and try to split it with a cold chisel and get it in the post. I will send the alloy gear with the cam hand have it pressed on as opposed to me having to do it with a block of wood and some feeler guages.
I spent the rest of the afternoon searching for the front brake components so I can start on getting them sorted. I know I have them bundled and put in a safe place. You would think it would be with the rest o the components I stripped out and bagged at the same time - but no. So the search will continue tomorrow - I know I am short some parts as the passenger side brake shoes were hanging off and the pivot point was missing. But that will have to wait until I fain all the bits and figure out if anything else is missing.
A lot of effort today for not much outcome; still a very very small step closer to the end goal.
Sounds like a lot of my days Craig.
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Craig,
There are many methods of timing gear replacement. Here is one from Cowell, SA, featuring the panelbeater and his friend, the John Deere mechanic.
Sooo - coming back from a WA trip in 2006, my father and I decided to drive down and up the Eyre Peninsula. As we left Port Lincoln, the engine made a low-pitched half-engine-speed thud, reminiscent of a shot big-end. We pulled over to investigate. Other people also pulled over. In half an hour, we had the name and phone number of the Port Lincoln car club president and a helpful lead to the panelbeater at Cowell, who was an old Holden nut. The RAA guy turned up unbidden, attached a tow rope to his HiAce and towed us up to the North Shields caravan park. He knew the proprietor, who rented us a cabin and let us use a concrete pad for an on-site van for repairs. This was a Friday afternoon.
I set to work, dropped the sump and ruled out loose big-ends. But turning the engine over by hand, I noticed it tended to bind, with slightly less than two turns of free movement. I pulled the timing case off, and in the bottom of the timing case was a gear tooth. Valve train out, fuel pump off, camshaft out. The timing gear was missing two teeth - but the engine still ran.
Pause for an excellent dinner at the North Shields pub a short walk up the beach from the caravan park.
Options at this stage were:
Buy replacement timing gear from Rares at Adelaide and have it freighted to North Shields: three to five working days.
Fly to Adelaide, buy timing gear, fly back. If flights permit.
Contact the panelbeater at Cowell.
Saturday morning, we made contact with the panelbeater. He said he had a second-hand timing gear in good condition in a box of parts "somewhere", but if that failed, we could rat a grey motor for a camshaft plus gear.
Now the problem was how to get to Cowell (~60 km away). Our "neighbour", a long-term resident of the caravan park, offered to drive us up there, as long as his dog, an enormous but very well-natured animal, could come too. Who were we to argue? We met the panelbeater and pulled the camshaft out of a very neglected-looking EJ Premier parts car. Then he found the timing gear. Better to use my camshaft as I don't have to swap camshafts back after I get home.
How to replace the timing gear? He's a panelbeater and doesn't have a press in his shop. Not to worry. His mate at the John Deere dealership does have a press. A phone call, a few minutes' wait and we walked down to John Deere with a camshaft and a gear. The press work was done in a few minutes.
Now, you mentioned block of wood and feeler gauges. The John Deere mechanic said to me, "Move the thrust washer around as I press the gear on and tell me when I'm getting close." I couldn't even start to voice the word "now" when the thrust washer jammed solid. "Too slow," he said, "but never mind. I'll take the shaft out of the press, you hold it upright by the gear." He placed a drift on the camshaft hub and delivered a well-calibrated "whang" onto the drift with a hammer. The result was "free sliding fit with minimal end-play" in engineering-speak.
The John Deere mechanic refused payment for his services. On a Saturday. The panelbeater refused payment for engine parts. He also lent us a 1/4" drive Sidchrome socket set for the thrust washer screws. I asked him if he was concerned we were going to make off with his socket set and he said, "No, I know you'll come back. Plus I get to see your FX too."
On the Saturday afternoon I had the engine reassembled and did a victory lap of the North Shields caravan park, to the applause of the locals.
All in all, a great success. A major engine problem on a Friday afternoon at Port Lincoln, fixed in a day.
Rob
And while I'm on a roll here -
Warren and Brown of king-pin reamer, valve seat refacing equipment and Scope soldering iron fame also made a camshaft timing gear extraction and replacement kit, so you can do the work in-situ. I saw one of these in WA at a collector of anything grey-motor related. In brief:
Drill a hole, concentric and axially true, down the camshaft hub and tap it 3/8" Whit x 1" deep.
Screw extractor drift onto camshaft hub and, using it as a guide, drill three holes into the steel hub of the camshaft gear. Tap them to the size of the supplied bolts.
By the use of threaded rod and other sorcery, pull timing gear off camshaft.
Installation of the new gear only requires the use of threaded rod, a nut and a socket.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on July 21, 2025, 08:20:06 PM
There are many methods of timing gear replacement. Here is one from Cowell, SA, featuring the panelbeater and his friend, the John Deere mechanic.
...
All in all, a great success. A major engine problem on a Friday afternoon at Port Lincoln, fixed in a day.
Rob
Love that story and the picture it paints of country Oz. I know the panel beater in town - no John Deer store though! I'll let you know how I get on - just had another thought. I'm sure that I have a two piece bearing puller up in the shed - will pull it out and see how that goes before taking to the cam with an angle grinder. I will use progressive steps of violence until the job is done!
I remember removing a broken fibre gear from a black 202 in my VK Berlina. Grinding, chiselling and heat all came to play. The failure actually occurred between Port Augusta and Iron Knob, but we towed the car back up to Leigh Creek for the repair, some 300km.
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A bit of grinding, the bearing puller and a tad of MAP heat got the job done. Had to do it pretty much one handed as I have a tendonitis in my left shoulder and am off from work for the week.
Cam, alloy timing gear and cam followers, plus one spare, are off to Clive to work his magic. Spoke with Masterstroke Enginering and the head will be picked up Monday or Tuesday next week. I have a funeral on Thursday in Sydney so will take the opportunty to visit some relos/friends before I head back over the weekend/ and head back on the weekend. I had planned to get some more rust work done this week - but I guess that is on the back burner. I will probably start work on the steering and pedal box tomorrow so we are at least progressing.
Got word back on the FB motor today. The good news was that it was still the original bore, crank etc. That was the end of the good news.
Nothing was in spec. The bores were so worn that they are going straight to 60thou over. Everything else to the next over/undersize. Block will be surfaced while they are at it. Probably would have been slightly cheaper to buy a donk that had already been done. But where is the pain in doing that?
Combine that with the head and reground cam I expect that we will be pretty well matched with the 3 36 diff centre we picked up last week.
Oil pump is now good to go and the fuel pump, after an hour in the ultrasonic cleaner, is ready to put back together for testing. Diaphragm is good so I trst all I will need is to make a fuel bowl gasket to have it serviceable.
Having troubles finding the missing front brake components. What I have found available so far is in the form of complete front ends at the end of long drives to pick up.
It is a patience game so I expect something will turn up in due course.
Starting to hand over the construction business to my sons so look forward to having some time on my hands to get stuck into the old girl.
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Craig,
What front brake components do you need?
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on July 28, 2025, 07:46:35 PM
Craig,
What front brake components do you need?
Rob
Hi Rob,
The front brakes were missing, from the GMH Shop Manual (Fig 5.1 page 5-1):
- Item 6. Bolt and Spacer Assembly - Brake Anchor;
- Item 7. Link Brake Shoe; and
- Item 8. Pin Assembly - Brake Shoe Link.
The rest, springs and retainers etc., I think I can scrape up from the spares that came with the ute.
Cheers
Craig
Quote from: ardiesse on July 28, 2025, 07:46:35 PM
Craig,
What front brake components do you need?
Rob
Here is an extract from the manual I am using.
(https://i.postimg.cc/18kjhwG5/20250728-215010.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18kjhwG5)
Craig,
I have the links and pins, and am pretty certain I have the anchor bolts and spacers. Do you need one side or two sides?
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on July 29, 2025, 07:56:53 PM
Craig,
I have the links and pins, and am pretty certain I have the anchor bolts and spacers. Do you need one side or two sides?
Rob
Hi Rob,
I need both sides. If you have some that you could spare it would be awesome. Let me know how many beer tokens and I'll sort something out with you.
Cheers
Craig
I am finishing up work and in the process of winding up the building company. So I have had a bit more time to spend on the ute - not as much as I would like but we are heading in the right direction. I may be working for the boys to help build a couple fo sheds over the next month or so but then I am definitely out of the business except for guest appearances. More of a Scott Cam type role.
Anyway, so the progress.
I got the cam back from Clive Cams last Friday so it was taken into Phillip Head Services who are doing the machining to ensure all of the bearings are correct etc. I had an alloy timing gear that I had planned to use but as couldn't determine how it was going to mate with the existing gear I decided to put is aside for now and oder in a matched set. I don't want to have to pull the engine back down to play around with mismatched timing gears. When I redo the tired old original FC engine, which I trust just needs a hone and rings, I will see if I can use it then.
The head is being finished up at the moment and I expect to get it back late next week.
If you have followed the recent thread on resleeving brakes (https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=28669.0 (https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=28669.0) you will know that I was missing some front brake parts. Rob has generously provided the missing parts so that can progress. Thanks so much for your advice and support Rob.
I started on the rear brakes yesterday and had heaps of trouble trying to get the drums off. The adjusters ware rusted solid. After several soaks in WD40 and a bit of persuasion with a hammer I was able to get them to rotate and loosen off the shoes; but, still couldn't get the drums off despite them rotating reasonably freely. After much effort with a couple of small pry bars and the application of some brute force with the hammer I was able to get the shoes to show and with a combination of hammer and lever work got them off. They had been down to bare metal several times on both sides by the looks of it and the step in the drums was so deep I couldn't get it over the shoes. To remove the passenger side the friction material had to be broken away. The depth of the step in the drums is 2.7mm on one side and 2.6mm on the other (so 5.4mm and 5.2mmm over respectively). This works out to be around 9 7/32" diameter so I don't think they are salvagable.
On the good news front the 3.36 diff I picked up for $30 is in excellent condition. I will replace the wheel bearings and all of the seals etc before I put is into service though. I will head off to Speeds Spares (Rare Spares dealer in Canberra) to pick up the seals, bearings and a later model uni joint and U bolts.
I did have a bit of a scare as for the life of me I couldn't find the tailshaft. I also couldn't remember if I had picked one up with the ute when I bought it so I had no idea if I needed to buy one or find one. After a bit of angst and a lot of searching I eventually located it hidden in behind a few spare VY/VX tailshafts leaning up against the shed wall. Not sure how it got there as all the FC parts were in one location. I will blame it on Son 2 tonight!
Anyway, I have a good spare original FC diff if anyone is in need.
The fuel tank has been prepped for POR and the pinholes filled with fuel rated JB Weld. With a bit of luck I will knock this over on the weekend.
When I put the fuel pump back together the diaphragm split so I need to purchase in a kit to bring it back to all of its glory. I am using an FB/EK style fuel pump as I'm not using the vacuum wipers.
I completed an audit of the wiring harness and ordered additional cables and joiners from Vintage Wiring to repair what I have and to run the addtional circuits that weren't included in the comercial vehicles - indicators, radio, heater etc. They are in the post. I have come up with a first draft design for a 3D printable screw together fusr holder that is close to what the originals looked like. I need to curve the ends to look the part (beyond my current skill level) but I will get there. Now I have to convince SWBO that "we" need a 3D printer! :)
No progress on the bodywork unfortunatley so she is still on the rotisserie just hanging around. Plan for next week is to look at the steering box - it is out laying on the garage floor screaming at me to give it some attention. Any tips on what I should be aware of before I dive into it?
Cheers n Beers
Craig,
The upper bearing surface on the steering shaft (aka wormshaft) will probably be pitted from lubrication failure, as will the bearing race pressed into the steering box housing. If you're unlucky, the same will be true of the lower wormshaft bearing and race (pressed into the big adjuster nut). This is not a game-stopper. Apparently there's a guy in Smithfield who can regrind the bearing surfaces. One of the NSW club members has recently had his steering box reconditioned by him.
To remove the bearing race from the adjuster nut, lay a nice big fillet of weld on the inside of the race. As the weld cools, it'll shrink the race, which will then drop out.
If you're super unlucky, the threaded part of the wormshaft (where the recirculating balls run) and the ball nut will be pitted too. This means game over.
The sector shaft tends to wear right close to the sector, and the sector shaft bushes also wear out. Rare Spares may have replacement sector shaft bushes. Otherwise Statewide Bearings in Smithfield has the right size bronze bushes, but they will require line-reaming after installation.
Another trick on reassembly is to turn the ball nut upside-down. This makes the teeth mesh on an unworn part of the ball nut.
Pull the sector shaft out, remove the adjuster nut, slide the steering shaft and ball-nut out as an assembly, and post lots of close-up photos.
Rob
Thanks Rob,
Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know wha tI find tomorrow.
Cheers
So I have pulled down the steering column most of the way. I haven't been able to remove the selector tube. I has been repaired in situ as I had to file the weld off the selector bolt to undo it. The repair makes it selector sube wider than the column (see photo). Unless there is some magin trick to removing it I think I need to cut the repair off, without damaging the column, and remake it so it can be re-installed. Have I got this right or is it rewelded correctly and I simply don't understand how to remove the selector tube (see photo below)..
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJLZ3h9x/20250817-154635.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJLZ3h9x)
The rest of the components are useable though. All were well lubricated with moly based grease, show no pitting and are quite tight for an old girl.
(https://i.postimg.cc/McrsLm9Y/20250817-154653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/McrsLm9Y)
(https://i.postimg.cc/622Hx4Sx/20250817-154701.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/622Hx4Sx)
The runing gear I am looking at over in Wagga on Wednesday comes with a complete steering column as well so I can use the best of them and retain the other as a spare.
Craig,
You got very lucky with the steering box.
The attachment of the lower gearshift lever to the gearshift tube is a known weak point in FE-FCs. Yours has definitely been repaired. Normally, you'd remove the bolt attaching the lower lever, remove the lower lever, then slide the tube out of the column.
If the lower shifter lever mates up correctly with the gearshift tube and the bolt holds it firmly in place, then there's no need to remove the gearshift tube from the column. Clean the sliding surfaces and lubricate well, then you should be good to go.
One other recommendation is to use an EK-HR lower selector lever, complete with nylon "half-moon" trunnions. It'll give you much improved gearshift action. (This is the one which screws onto a stud protruding from the column jacket.)
Post a photo of the lower levers so I can identify them . . .
Rob
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the advice. The lower levers are shown below:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zVnGy4T9/20250818-163656.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVnGy4T9)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9qbDRXS/20250818-163712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9qbDRXS)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hJ3DFnq7/20250818-163725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJ3DFnq7)
Craig,
All stock FC lower levers. Couldn't make it out too well, but I hope the lower shift lever isn't too worn where the "fingers" of the selector lever bear on it. I'd suggest an EK-HR lower selector lever.
Advanced Gearshift Upgrade: EK-HR lower shift lever, but you also need the special cup washer that goes with it. *But* you'd have to raid an EK-HR gearshift tube for the collar (brazed on) and swap it over to the FC gearshift tube. The collar would have to be jigged into place so it's square and correctly positioned.
As you can tell, I'm exploring these options for "Found Object" (if'n'when I get back to it . . . )
Rob
PS - I have a few spare FE-FC brake drums. There might even be a serviceable pair among them.
Thanks Rob,
The levers both look to be in good shape and not too worn. The linkages on the other hand are in terrible conditions and need to be built up and filed back round. Should be no trouble with the MIG.
I am off to Wagga tomorrow afternoon to have a look at a complete front end, diff and steering gear. It may have a good selector tube and soem usable brake drums. Perhaps I'm being a little too positive given the age of the parts.
I just came a cropper with the fuel pump resto - picked up the kit only to find that what I have isn't a grey motor pump. I expect that it is a red motor version, so will do a run into town and change the kit over.
For a couple of extra sheckles I could have bought an aftermarket red motor fuel pump with glass bowl and for a few sheckle less an after market red motor pump with no bowl.
I do have the original fuel/vacuum pump on the other grey if I need to use it- decisions, decisions.
Wiring harness extension cables and connectors arrived from Vintage Wiring today so that is another parts piece ticked off. I have put that aside as I won't even look at that until the paint is done.
Cheers
Picked up the running gear from a sedan from Wagga this evening. The gear came out of a running 58 model that is having a heart transplant to a supercharged blue motor.
I pulled the two drums off the diff and they are in good nick so I didn't inspect any further and took the bundle of parts that were on offer. In addtion to the drums being in good nick the brake linings look almost new so the shoes are probably useable.
The front end appears to have good king pins, wheel bearings and tight steering linkages. I'm looking forward to pulling the front drums to see if I have a couple of spare drums and another set of usaeble shoes.
When I inspected the steering column it looks like the selector tube is unmolested. I will pull it down and use it as a template to undo the repair on the one I have and re-repair it to the correct dimensions. With luck the bearing race and worm drive will be in good nick as well.
In addtion to the brake drums, as part of the deal, I picked up three FE/FC hub caps in average to good condition and one HR? one, a set of sedan rear leafs, and four rims with tyres. So overall I'm pretty happy with the find.
Rob, once I check the front end I trust that I'll be able to send the bake parts you sent down back.
Thanks all for the advice - I think that I now have all of the machanical components sorted.
As to progress today:
- 3.36 centre is now in the housing and the oil seals have been fitted. My press is a little too short to press the bearings and collars back onto the shafts so Son 2 will get them sorted at one of his mate's workshops (he's a spanner turner by trade).
- Son 3 was able to change the FB/EK fuel pump kit for a red 6. We'll see how that goes together tomorrow.
Cheers n Beers
Craig,
You've done well with that lot. On FC front suspensions, the lower control arm shafts can get loose in the crossmember.* You can only tell when the front springs have been removed.
Sooo - if it turns out that "Found Object's" front suspension has loose lower control arm shafts, I'll give you a call.
*How do I know? Bitter experience. On my grey FC, it took a lot of work with a welder and a file to fix the holes in the crossmember. There are more than a few Holdens with the lower control arm shafts welded in place. That makes replacement even more frustrating.**
**How do I know? Experience, again. This time an HD Premier I restored.
Rob
So today I picked up the engine and its associated goodies and got it mounted back on the stand ready to start the rebuild. Rope seals in an oil bath at the moment in preparation for getting to work on it tomorrow afternoon.
Pulled down the steering column; the first thing I noticed was that the end cap came off as soon as I undid the screws as the lash adjustor was not engaged.pitman shaft gear was rubbing against it. I will need to check the end clearance when it goes back together to see if it is worn. If it is I will build it up and then cut it back to spec. It also has a good worm drive and bearing surfaces; again because it was well greased, but using a GP grease as opposed to moly.
I think that the selector shaft is in good condition and the selector connection is sound.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jL2d2Mfm/20250821-145354.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jL2d2Mfm)
On closer inspection of the one I had already it appears that a washer has been welded onto the shaft to stop the selector from being prised off the shaft. I assume that there was some issue there at one time. I will grind the washer off the back and remove the selecotr shaft tomorrow. The indicator mechanism and horn contact came with it an are also in good used condition.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjxWnFmR/20250821-150132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjxWnFmR)
My plan at this stage is to determine which selector shaft is best, clean up the original one and put it all back together, then repair/reinforce the original selector shaft and put the other one back together as a spare.
I did not get to stripping down the front end today but it does look in pretty good nick. Rob, I'll let you know what I find in relation ot the control arm shafts when I get to that bit.
Stripped down most of the front end and the diff today.
Diff had a 2.78 long bolt course spline centre. I salvaged the drums and brake components (almost new). The centre and housing are now in the for sale section along with my original 3.39 centre.
The front end was missing the brakes on the driver's side. Thanks to Rob I have a set of links to make the brakes work as this front end was shy as well. So I now have two front ends and still seem to be missing one "bolt".
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xp3hfxSq/20250822-180254.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xp3hfxSq)
I will search through my parts bin over the weekend. I trust that it was just thrown in the bucket by the previous owner when he stripped it down.
The front end also has a set of engine mounts welded in.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4Y2STgKH/20250822-170630.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Y2STgKH)
I compared it to my HR disck brake front end and the location is different.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HHk4Rv7/20250822-170651.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HHk4Rv7)
So I guess it is not set up for a red six. Given the 2.78 ratio diff it could have possibly been set up for a V8.
Not sure what use it would be to anyone as I think any mod like that would now require a disc brake setup. Anyway if you have any idea of what it has been set up for or have a use for it - please let me know. My plan at this stage is to strip it down as spares so it takes up less room in the shed.
Craig,
For a moment I thought the king-pin front suspension was from an EH, and somebody drilled the holes in the outrigger to suit a grey motor. But no. The lower control arms are definitely FC.
The GM-H engineers moved the engine and transmission forward about four inches for the HD. On the plus side, the firewall had no indent and the transmission tunnel became much smaller than in the EH. On the minus side, worse weight distribution and more understeer.
Your HR front suspension has had the "early" crossmember outrigger fitted, but as the car it was fitted to had a grey motor, there was no need to move the red motor engine mounts.
My two cents' worth: don't strip it down to save space. Parts will get lost. Attach a wheel rim to one side and park it in a corner, standing on its side.
Rob
Thanks Rob,
Both of these front ends came out of FC's. The HR front end was licked up from a guy down the south coast who reverted his FC back to original. The second one that I picked up on Wednesday I have no info on. I will try to track the fella I picked it up from and get some detail on what it is set up for.
Cheers
Craig
Just heard back from the guy I purchased the front end from. He advised that it had a 161 in it when he picked it up. I guess the original HR mounts were a but too far forward for a red in an FC.
Bucketing down rain here in Murrumbateman so no shed construction going on today with Son 3.
Great opportunity to commandeer Mrs J's Oven and get to work on the donk.
I had already soaked the rope in oil and fitted it and the crank so I had a bit of a head start.
Gudgeon pins into the freezer pistons and rods into the oven, went together so easy. Threw the rings in; only one of the compression rings were sided so it was pretty simple.
Then out to the shed to start putting bits back together (finally). The manual in an excellent guide so it was pretty easy to get the alignment right. Then had a minor drama - one of the bearing caps had smaller nuts than the other five so they are only done up hand tight at the moment. Will need to get into one of the specialty fastner joints and buy 12 matching ones of the right grade and then tighten it all up. Not a big drama just a PITA. I would have known this from when I stripped it down - but clearly for got.
Fitted the cam and oil pump and that is about as far as I can go at the moment. I have to clean out the sump and get it ready to go and the head is still in the post so there is no rush and there are plenty of other things I can turn my hand to in the short term. Steering and brakes is one aspect and finishing the rust work it the other.
Son 2 has gone back to swinging spanners so he will take the axles in and press the bearings on so I can get the diff back together. King pins are still in getting done and I will end up making the spacer for the front brakes on the lathe - I have had some ridiculous offers on FB Marketplace for something I can turn up easily.
So I guess now that things are starting to go back together we have turned the first corner. Still a long way to go but the small wins keep us heading in the right direction.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0M3nKyBK/20250827-143824.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0M3nKyBK)
Craig,
Conrod nuts - for a B motor they should be 19/32" AF. The thread is a non-standard size - 11/32"-24TPI.
Come the J motors, the conrod nuts were changed to a tall 1/2" (I think, but maybe 9/16") AF nut, but still 11/32"-24 thread.
So I reckon you might have one EJ conrod. Your chances of finding replacements will be limited are very good. ARP sells conrod bolt and nut kits for grey motors Starfire conrods: AR205-6002. They also sell the nuts: Nut Kit 8740.
Otherwise I could unearth a couple of the old-style 19/32" AF conrod nuts and send them down.
Rob
Thanks Rob,
I have them on route from Rockets.
Cheers
Ordered the ARP nuts yesterday and they arrived this morning.
King pins were completed and picked up by son 3 yesterday.
TNT dropped the bundle on picking up the head. Received a cal to say it has been handed off to Interparcel for delivery. It has yet to be picked up so expect delivery mid tp late next week.
Bottom end was all buttoned up today.
Didn't proceed any further as I need to paint it before the harmonic balancer and accoutrements go on.
Put both steering columns back together - getting the bearings back in is a real art! I decided not to cut off the washer reinforcement on the "repaired" selector shaft and will keep that column as a spare for the time being. I haven't set either up to spec as yet.
Off to watch the Tigers play tomorrow and grand daughter's birthday Sunday so there won't be much progress over the weekend. I may get some time to modify the old rocker cover to make an oil dam for setting the hot clearances.
A question on fasteners for the timing cover. The original motor (still on the run up jig) has different sized and length bolts, whereas, the FB donk we are rebuilding has the corresponding bolts and reinforcemnt plate but the left hand side (the short fasteners) uses the same screws as the sideplate and sump. What is correct?
Cheers
Found and answer to my own question.
I pikced up a master parts catalogue FX-FC yesterday so thought I would tke a gander.
Sure as eggs - Bolt and Lockwasher Assembly 1/4" x 20TPI 5/16" in depth.
I checked the sideplate cover fastners and they are simply listed as bolt special, bolt and lockwasher and washer ext lock 1/4".
I have plenty of spares of the side plate screws but may see if I can find some socket heads the right size to replace them all.
Now to see what I can pull up in the local fastener shops.
Craig,
The short timing cover screw (1/4-20 x 5/16) is round head with a screwdriver slot. Its lockwasher is an "ordinary" type. I have many of them if you want to go original.
Many people replace them with the sump/sideplate screws (the famous "stovebolt" of six-cylinder Chevrolet fame, and yes, they carry the same part number.
Beware of replacing the stovebolts with socket-head cap screws. The SHCS have a much smaller head and you risk distorting the side plate unless you use a flat washer of 7/16" or 1/2" diameter to spread the load.
You've already got the camshaft in, so I'm too late with this suggestion: replace the camshaft thrust plate bolts (1/4-20 x 3/4) with button-head socket head screws. Makes installation and removal much easier than with a thin-wall quarter-inch drive 7/16"AF socket.
Rob
Thanks Rob,
So they are screws. I think I have the dome head ones in a bucket of bolts - wasn't sure what they were off. Now I know. I have plenty of stovebolts, so no worries there.
I was thinking about replacing them for ease of undoing down the track. It was easy to put together using a screwdriver now that they have all been cleaned. I was thinking more about the sump than anywhere else as they are a pain to undo with a screwdriver when they are caked in oil and road grime. The point about the surface area is noted and will require both a plain and star washer if I go down that track. I am torn between keeping the original look and modifying it ever so slightly. Given I plan to run the triple SU's (providing I have a suitable manifold) and already have the alloy rocker cover. the Socket Heads won't look out of place I do decide to change. over.
There was defintely a trick missed on the camshaft thrust plate bolts - but I didn't find them difficult to remove or insert so my trsty old sidchrome socket set should be up to the task if I ever need to do it again. I trust not! I will keep it in mind for when I refresh the original donk though.
So finally the head has arrived!
(https://i.postimg.cc/MvbRkzhM/Modified-Head.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MvbRkzhM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YjFY36Rx/Modified-Head-bottom.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjFY36Rx)
This is the last part of the engine puzzle. Masterstroke Engineering classify it as a Stage 3 Grey Motor Head, which includes the following:
- Surfaced
- Throated to suit 202 Red motor valves (inlet & exhaust)
- Machine ported to suit 202 valves
- Hardened Exhaust seats
- 3 angle profile valve seats
- bronze K line inserts
- spring seats machined to suit 308 springs and retainers
- 308 springs & modified retainers (80lbs seat pressure cam to 550 lift)
- Valve stem heights corrected to OEM Spec
- K-Line Valve Guides ,Intake & Exhaust Valves & Valve stem seals
- Brass Welch plugs
I have one of Harv's improved head gaskets on the shelf ready to go and the bottom end work is done; but, I have piers to pour for a job this morning and relos arriving this afternoon to watch the Socceroos at GIO Stadium so I won't get a chance to put it all together until Sunday arvo - what a PITA ;)
Now that I am not "in charge" of the business Son 3 has had me working hard but I have managed to get the rocker gear apart, into the ultrasonic cleaner, and back together again in preparation. I also managed to clean up all of the gunk from the brake gear and clean up all of the adjustors etc and have them in a ziploc bag with some light oil to prevent them rusting. I also cobbled together two sets of wheel cylinders, extracted the snapped bolts from two of them and run a tap through the threads. Now it is a matter of getting them off to the brake shop to have best of them resleeved.
It has been a bit of a process to get here as I chose to coordinate the machine work though three different shops. Bottom end by Phillip Heads in Canberra, Cam by Clive Cams and the head work by Masterstroke Engineering. Each of them have been excellent to work with and apart from TNT dropping the ball on delivery of the head the process was pain free. We will see how good my project management was in due course!
Once I have the head back on I will dry fit the triple SUs and check for firewall clearance. Despite being promised that the SU setup would fit without any modification to the firewall or relocation of the battery it is still something I need to rule out before I get the stage of fitting it.
Small steps; a but like eating an elephant, just one bite at a time.
I must have been nice to son 3 when I was running the show because he let me off once we had the concrete in. So:
- Head has been modified as per Harvs instructions
- Installed the head and rockers - removed the self tapper from the rocker connecting nut (new oil pump isntalled)
- Tested oil system using a drill and an old distributor shaft - oil flow to all of the important bits
- Test fit triple SU and exhaust setup
- Test fit twin stromberg manifold
A couple of observations that I need to work through. Perhaps you guys may have a solution.
I'm planing on using a Speco alloy rocker cover. See photo below. Anyone already solved what to use to seal the top?
(https://i.postimg.cc/w1vD4mTB/Speco-Cover.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1vD4mTB)
The SU setup gives me 85mm clearance from the back of the engine - do you think that will clear the firewall?
The SU setup has "rings" incorporated into the manifold. These are larger than the inlet ports in the head. How have you guys dealt with this? Basically a reduction from 1.5" to 1 1/4" if expect.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RJJZnvM4/Stromberg-dry-fit.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJJZnvM4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fkVLPfYp/Triple-SU-dry-fit-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkVLPfYp)
To seal the rocker cover, use the original equipment rocker cover grommets (from Rare Spares).
I think you will still run into clearance problems with the rear SU against the firewall. Even a "standard" inlet manifold goes quite close to the firewall at the rear corner. And the SU manifold is meant for a head with seriously enlarged ports. Easiest (at the cost of a head gasket) is to take the head and manifold back to the machine shop and say, "Fit this to that, please."
It may be worth hinting at this point that the twin-Stromberg setup will be much easier to install. Interesting manifold, though. It's not "cranked" like others I've seen. The mounting plane for the carburettors is parallel to the block deck, it seems. The carburettors will have a slight backward tilt.
Rob
Don’t let rob put you off the SUs, Craig. All practicality aside, they are the horn mate. For practicality sake though, I would run some paper element “pancake†filters, and here is where you will run into clearance issues for sure. I recessed the firewall in my FB ute by tracing the interference border and cutting an X from corner to corner, massaging out for 10mm clearance. Then I taped it up on the inside and sprayed black from the engine bay to make a pattern, and butt welded it in. You really don’t notice it has been done.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250905/ce5d9b0832024b384d6eb4e177fefac7.png)
I know, it is a red, but it it was mated to original crashie. If gets down to the manifold of course. You can be pretty confident yous was designed to fit the FE EK, sa well as humpy firewall at least. My manifold would have been designed for EH.
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Quote from: Errol62 on September 05, 2025, 09:41:52 PM
Don’t let rob put you off the SUs, Craig. All practicality aside, they are the horn mate. For practicality sake though, I would run some paper element “pancake†filters, and here is where you will run into clearance issues for sure. I recessed the firewall in my FB ute by tracing the interference border and cutting an X from corner to corner, massaging out for 10mm clearance. Then I taped it up on the inside and sprayed black from the engine bay to make a pattern, and butt welded it in. You really don’t notice it has been done.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250905/ce5d9b0832024b384d6eb4e177fefac7.png)
I know, it is a red, but it it was mated to original crashie. If gets down to the manifold of course. You can be pretty confident yous was designed to fit the FE EK, sa well as humpy firewall at least. My manifold would have been designed for EH.
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Thanks Clay, I haven't shelved either of the carby options yet. I was hoping that I would not have to deal with any firewall mods so I could finish the shell and be done with it. The fella I purchased the SU's from "guaranteed" that they fit without having to do any mods. They still may - but definitely not with a panckake. The more immediate problem now is working out how to locate them as the manifold location rings aren't compatable with the head. I can take it off and drop it down to Phillip Heads to get it done - but once I make that decision I am committed to that solution going forward. I was hoping to have the ability to swap and change carby setups if I wanted to - between performance and historic looks.
I hadn't picked up on the twin manifold being flat until Rob mentioned that the carbies would be on a tilt. I expect it would be an aesthetic issue more than a practical one as I could jack the car up to set float levels etc.
I have plenty to work on so will think about it a little more; but the SU's are in front on the horn factor. The bolt on factor does make the twins a much simpler option.
I note your Coopers branded wiper motor and am wondering if Reschs produced on simiar in NSW. I will get onto that next. ;)
I was a little disheartened to find that my "guaranteed" to fit without firewall modifications triple SU's don't. So I have been contemplating my fall back options of the twin strombergs (which I will get up and running as my plan B) and locating a manifold that will work without having to take to the firewall. I think I have found a Warneford Design manifold that will meet my needs so hopefully the information that comes back tonight is favourable and I can keep going.
We had a bit of rain here today so got some admin out of the way and bundled up all of the clutch and brake bits and bobs and headed off into Canberra Brake and Clutch in Fyshwick. I spent and hour or so in there with the owner as he went through all of the components I bought in.
Of the 9 brake drums I took in 2 measured up as standard, four as machinable but requiring oversized shoes and three paperweights. I expect on closer inspection one or two of the O/S machinable drums will also end up as paperweights. A good outcome as I should have a good set of machined drums with matching shoes and a spare set of matching oversized drums.
I took in eight wheel cylinders and all bar one are original and the odd one is a PBR cylinder. One of the originals has been moldested with a hammer at some stage - but should be salvagable. Four of the original cylinders will be sleeved in stainless steel, the others I will keep in reserve as spares/trading material.
The clutch slave I took in was a new aftermarket Protex that does not require work; however, he believes he has an original slave cylinder in his box of tricks out the back so will sleeve that and I will keep the Protex as a spare.
I took in two clutch and two brake masters; the two best will be sleeved in stainless and the other two kept as spares/trading material.
Two sets of adjustors were degreased and then thrown into an ultrasonic bath, using finish dishwashing tablets as the cleaning agent. They all now adjust fine and the adjustor cores are soaking in machine oil while I wait for the brake work to be completed.
We had an interesting discussion about maintaining the brake and clutch systems in historic plated vehicles (not that mine will be plated this way initially). He is not a fan of the DOT 5 (silicone based) fluid at all and highly recommends against its use. I am still in two minds - but given both systems will be completely new I can jump either way (once).
In his view once the stainless sleeves are in the only maintenace problem will be the rubbers. He and his machinist have been working on solutions to prevent the oxidisation that is the primary cause of the rubber deterioration that leads to flud leaks. He originally machined a groove around the wheel cylinders and fitted an "O" ring. This proved unsuccessful. Their current method, that he believes is successful, is to fill the adjustor with rubber grease before it is installed. They believe that the rubber grease prevents the oxidisation and premature failure of the rubber seals.
In relation to shoes he can get mine rebonded, but he can get new standard and oversized shoes in. In his opinion the meatel used in the new shoes is superior and the wear in many of the old shoes makes many of them only good for boat anchors. I will keep my stash of shoes just in case.
Hi Team,
I have read though troves of information on engine colours on this and the FB/EK site.
If I have it right the GMH official colour is GREY MOTOR GREY 393-10367 Dulux Autocolour Holden Engine Grey. The most recent off the shelf equivalent of the colour was Power Plus PP427 which is also no longer made. Rares are now advertising Dupli-Colour NEW "GREY" Engine Enamel as PP427.
Can anyone tell me if the Dupli-Colour NEW "GREY" is close to the original or am I best getting somone to mix the original Dulux recipe?
Cheers
Craig,
I once had some Holden Engine Grey mixed up, and it was like a mustardy greeny grey. The PP427 is a lot closer to the original colour, but like all things Holden, "original" depends on what year your engine was made. If you have an oil filler cap or rocker cover that you like the colour of, there are paint places which will match to suit.
I found that the Dulux colour Charcoal Grey is a good starting point. But that was 1984 . . .
Rob
Thanks Rob,
I have the the original grey that I could use to get colour matched so no problems there. Just wondering if this NEW GREY is close to the "real thing". Seems Rare Spares have have just tagged the NEW GREY as PP427. Knowing the quality of some Rare Spares componets it could be anything. I guess I can buy a can and do a test if no-one has used it. My local Rare Spares stockist (Speed Spares) doesn't keep the NEW GREY and tells me the "real" PP427 went off the shelves last year.
Cheers
Hi Team,
Got home from work today to find the Warneford manifold had arrived. So, stright up to the shed to see if it solved the trip SU problem.
Looks like the punt was worth taking as the clearance from the welch plug on the back of the head to the closest point on the rear caburettor is 4 5/16" (110mm). The deistance from the recessed portion of the firewall to the forward most section is also 110m. So give the engine clearance is enough to stop the motor hitting under acceleration and braking I'm pretty confident that the carburettors will fit withou having to modify the firewall.
(https://i.postimg.cc/njy1ZTYD/Triple-SU-Warneford-Manifold-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njy1ZTYD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pmWJ2m8q/Triple-SU-Warneford-Manifold-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmWJ2m8q)
There is a bit of work to do before I can bolt them on and get it onto the test bed:
- the manifold does not fit over the locator rings so that will need to be addressed. I am also short tow locator rings so if anyone knows of an aftermarket supplier or a DIY solution I'm all ears;
- in addition the manifold is a little under 0.5mm smaller that the carburettors at the mating point so a bit of porting is required
- the fuel rail will need to be modifed as the mounting holes are now out of alignment. It may also need to be shortened and possibly have the return line blocked off
- the linkages need to be modified as the carburettors are now much closer together
- the extractors/headers don't quite line up with with the locating studs so the holes need to be relieved a little to enable them to be mounted correctly
RET indicated in a question I reased about the boundary between historic and modifed that the rule of thumb is that if a mod is something that appeared in the advertisements of contemporaneous issues of Modern Motor, Wheels, Practical Motorist & Motorcyclist etc, then it counts as a period accessory and will likely be OK. Does anyone happen to have a copy of, or recall seeing and advertisement for the Warneford Manifold in any of these "references". It would interesting to see if this would be classed as a period correct modification.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
Looking good Craig
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Craig,
Inlet manifold rings -
Measure the ID of the counterbore in the inlet ports. Go to an exhaust place. Hopefully there'll be a size of pipe only slightly larger than the inlet port. Cut the pipe to the right length, then slit it and grind the gap until it just fits in the inlet port.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on September 16, 2025, 10:51:26 AM
Craig,
Inlet manifold rings -
Measure the ID of the counterbore in the inlet ports. Go to an exhaust place. Hopefully there'll be a size of pipe only slightly larger than the inlet port. Cut the pipe to the right length, then slit it and grind the gap until it just fits in the inlet port.
Rob
Thanks Rob,
that solution is too easy - not sure why I wasn't smart enough to think of it. I have one original ring so getting a couple more from an exhaust joint should be pretty easy. Son 2 has gone back to swingins spanners so I will see if he can sort it for me.
Cheers n Beers
Fitting the "new" Warneford manifold has become a frustration to me for two reasons. The manifold won't fit if the locator rings are installed and if I remove the locator rings getting them aligned is a bit of hit and miss and the recess for the locator rings will have affect the flow of the fuel air mixture.
Then I pulled myself up and wonder if I'm not overthinking the problem. Firstly; is the affect on the flow of the air fuel mixture even be noticable in such an agricultrual application and secondly, if locating the manifold is such a problem why wouldn't it have been addressed by someone in the 60 plus years since the manifold was produced?
The manifold itself has probably been on more than one or two grey engined beasts in its time. If setting ip wasn't a problem for the previous 60 years why is it a problem for me now?
For the life of me I am stumped though. I haven't been able to come up with an easily repeatable method to accurately locate the inlet manifold. So I thought is was time to seek help.
Who out there has mounted triples to a grey using a Warneford manifold before and how did you do it? Did you do anything with the locating rings to keep the airflow as smooth as possible?
My original plan was to make three locating rings from the 1 1/4" exhaust tube. The head has 4mm (5/32") recesses in each of the inlet ports to accept the locating rings. They are a tight fit. If I was to relieve some material from the manifold to a depth of 4mm to make it a slide fit over the locator and add 1mm to the locator width to cater for the compressed manifold gasket we should be cooking with gas right?
Is there a simple solution out there that I have just missed?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
Cheers n Beers
Craig
Craig,
Yes. You need to have the inlet manifold machined to accept the spacer rings.
Rob
You may have to give them your head for the machinist to match up unless you can make a pretty good template. Craig Alardyce on the FB EK forum may have some insight as he loves greys and SUs.
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Triple SU carbs on FB EK
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=25355&share_tid=20377&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efbekholden%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic%2Ephp%3Ft%3D20377&share_type=t&link_source=app
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Quote from: Errol62 on September 19, 2025, 05:07:55 PM
You may have to give them your head for the machinist to match up unless you can make a pretty good template. Craig Alardyce on the FB EK forum may have some insight as he loves greys and SUs.
Quote from: ardiesse on September 19, 2025, 10:13:55 AM
Yes. You need to have the inlet manifold machined to accept the spacer rings.
Thanks for the advice. I will get onto it.
Had a busy weekend with Son 3, Grandson and Brother in-laws birthday get together in Sydney. Plenty of cold beers and a bit to Tequila down range didn't leave time to work on the ute. I did manage to pick up two grey gearboxes for $25 each while I was there. One dates to being an FX box Gearbox Number 49457 and casting code of 7/. K241 (24 October 1951). The second appears to be originally in an FJ with a Gearbox Number of 145180 and a casting code of C244 (24 March 1954). Both appear to be in resonable condition.
Today I got a few minutes in the shed so made the missing locating rings for the head. Thanks to Rob for the idea of making them from some exhaust pipe. I used 1 1/4" and cut is slightly larger than I needed with an angle grinder and then ground them back to size on a stone. I then had to cut a fair chunk out to neck them down to size.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzPmXp0P/Inlet-rings.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzPmXp0P)
The next step is to cut recesses into the inlet manifold using a die grinder and a straight burr that is rated for aluminium. IT will be a slow process but I haven't been able to find any engineering workshop keen to take it on in the Canberra region.
While checking out the manifold I noticed an "additional" hole in the manifold's balance tube. It is quite small and appears to have been threaded previously so I expect it has been used as a vacuum pickup for the distributor. The hole is at around the two o'clock position from the centre inlet.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2Vg0CrKH/Warneford-Manifold-hole.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2Vg0CrKH)
Can anyone confirm my assumption?
Cheers n Beers
Craig
Doubtful it would be vacuum advance Craig. Vacuum wipers more likely.
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Craig,
I've put my gearbox nerd hat on -
Since both your gearboxes are very early, can you tell me which of them has extra ribs on the bellhousing? From memory, they run from the lower bellhousing bolt holes down to the bottom cover (and also prevent an early gearbox being used in a later model with hydraulic clutch, 'cause the rib on the right interferes with the clutch slave cylinder).
Both gearboxes should also have -
1"AF drain plug
six holes for the clutch cover
short selector lever (compared with FE-EK)
The FX gearbox should have a welded steel rear extension housing, the FJ 'box will have a cast alloy rear extension housing.
As always, pictures are good . . .
(I also believe that the very early gearbox cases are in demand among Humpy purists . . . )
Edited to add: The FX mainshaft can only take a single-row bearing. Probably the FJ too. The second groove, for a double-row bearing, had been added in 1957; and double-row bearings made standard at FB.
Rob
Quote from: Errol62 on September 22, 2025, 10:03:43 PM
Doubtful it would be vacuum advance Craig. Vacuum wipers more likely.
Thanks,
It had me scratching my head - I didn't even notice it at first as there is a much larger port in the centre inlet of the manifold that I expected was for the brakes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJWv6X8P/Warneford-Design.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJWv6X8P)
Wipers hadn't occurred to me as a consideration, I assumed that if the vacuum wipers were still in use the pickup would probably be the vacuum pump at the bottom of the fuel pump.
Given the size of the hole it is about right for what is normally used for the distributor advance. My assumption was that a previous owner may have chosen to use manifold vacuum as opposed to ported vacuum for the distributor as there are plenty of "experts" on the interweb espousing the use of manifold over ported vacuum. I also believe that there are distributors that have been set to work on full manifold pressure. I have not heard of one for a grey though.
I am sticking with the original Bosch unit (that may include an accuspark/pertronix upgrade) so I need to work on the distributor setup. The SUs I have are the early H series ones so they don't have a ported vacuum pickup as standard.
I like to run ported vacuum, particularly on a manual, but you dont really need it performance wise. I wouldn’t run manifold vacuum on manual but as you say there are those that advocate it.
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Quote from: ardiesse on September 22, 2025, 10:53:28 PM
Craig,
I've put my gearbox nerd hat on -
Since both your gearboxes are very early, can you tell me which of them has extra ribs on the bellhousing? From memory, they run from the lower bellhousing bolt holes down to the bottom cover (and also prevent an early gearbox being used in a later model with hydraulic clutch, 'cause the rib on the right interferes with the clutch slave cylinder).
Both gearboxes should also have -
1"AF drain plug
six holes for the clutch cover
short selector lever (compared with FE-EK)
The FX gearbox should have a welded steel rear extension housing, the FJ 'box will have a cast alloy rear extension housing.
As always, pictures are good . . .
(I also believe that the very early gearbox cases are in demand among Humpy purists . . . )
Edited to add: The FX mainshaft can only take a single-row bearing. Probably the FJ too. The second groove, for a double-row bearing, had been added in 1957; and double-row bearings made standard at FB.
Rob
Hi Rob,
I dated the boxes based on Harv's excellent guide. I trust I did it correctly; however, a secons set of eyes is always useful. I'll upload the photos and answers in batches as the site charshes when I post too many images. The answers are below:
Ribs: Both have them as shown in the photo below.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zHDK0d6y/Ribs.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHDK0d6y)
Clutch Cover Holes (six: Both have the saem setup.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nCkq9tsq/Cover-holes-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCkq9tsq)
Extension housings: Both are alloy so the FX one has been changed at some time. The FJ Box has the metal shroud at the rear the FX one is all alloy.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MfJrH8nh/Extension-Housings.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfJrH8nh)
As for the dating them. I went off the telltale signs Harv outlines - in particlar the ribs, the clutch cover holes, the gearbox number and the casting detials.
Box identified as being FX
Gearbox Number 49457
(https://i.postimg.cc/nXYJ40K8/FX-Box-Number.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXYJ40K8)
casting code of 7/. K241 (24 October 1951).
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZKmvhSp/FX-Casting-Code.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZKmvhSp)
There are no other casting marks on this box. No part number, no Holden/GMH symbol
Box identified as being FJ
Gearbox Number145180
(https://i.postimg.cc/FYMQXw9J/FJ-Box-Number.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYMQXw9J)
casting code of C244 (24 March 1954)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZC0kBJnd/FJ-Casting-Code.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZC0kBJnd)
This box also has GMH and the Holden Part number as part of the cast.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zbDtskRg/FJ-Box-Casting-Part-Number.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbDtskRg)
Quote from: Errol62 on September 23, 2025, 07:21:11 AM
I like to run ported vacuum, particularly on a manual, but you dont really need it performance wise. I wouldn’t run manifold vacuum on manual but as you say there are those that advocate it.
Appreciat ehte advive.
I am not that keen on drilling a hole in the SU to achieve this; however, I saw over on the FB EK forum that this is achievable. The plan at this stage is to block the small hole and run without the vacuum advance and see how it runs. If there is no probem I will probably just leave it, if there is a problem I will tackle it then.
Quote from: Jolls on September 22, 2025, 09:24:08 PM
Today I got a few minutes in the shed so made the missing locating rings for the head. Thanks to Rob for the idea of making them from some exhaust pipe. I used 1 1/4" and cut is slightly larger than I needed with an angle grinder and then ground them back to size on a stone. I then had to cut a fair chunk out to neck them down to size.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzPmXp0P/Inlet-rings.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzPmXp0P)
The next step is to cut recesses into the inlet manifold using a die grinder and a straight burr that is rated for aluminium. IT will be a slow process but I haven't been able to find any engineering workshop keen to take it on in the Canberra region.
So I took a bit of time this afternoon to attack the Warneford Manifold.
There was a reson that it did not cater for the locator rings - that being the outer inlets (inlet at either end of the head) were not in alignment with the ports. Both ends were inboard by about 2.5mm.
So, fortunatley I did not take the manifold to an engineering workshop and have them machine the holes to the correct size. I marked the manifold up and used the die grinder to remove material until I could get it to fit. The alignment issue was not just in the horizontal - vertical adjustments had to be made to get it fit correctly. As a result I am sure that there are small gaps around the locator rings.
The picture below is of the manifold mounted. There is around 1mm spacing between the manifold and the head that I trust will be taken up with the manifold gaskets. If not I can easily dress them down a little.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V0fCcM2r/Warneford-Manifold-Fitted.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0fCcM2r)
My plan is to fit the rings to the manfold so they are a permanent fixture and then port the inlets to match the locator rings. I expect I will need to address a lip on the locator ring on one side and grind away some alloy on the other to get a smooth transition. If anyone has any recommendations or advice I am all ears.
At the moment, subject to the forum's wisdom, I am thinking of using JB Weld's Cold Weld Steel Rainforced Epoxy as it bonds to both steel and alloy, is rated to 280 degrees celcius and can be filed like metal (or so the product brochure says). If I have it right the boiling point of petroleum varies as it is a mixture of different compounds but the highest rating is around 200 degrees C so I trust I have a little leeway.
Anyways, one step closer to getting the engine up and running. Now I have to sort the extractors so that they fit properly.
Well gone Craig. I suspected there would be alignment issues.
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porting the head sounds drastic if you ever want to change manifolds in the future .
Quote from: fcee on September 24, 2025, 09:43:34 AM
porting the head sounds drastic if you ever want to change manifolds in the future .
Perhaps I explained it incorrectly. Porting the manifold to match the head. Porting the head to match the manifold would definitely be a drastic step. ;D
I have been researching the SU Carbs to try and find out more about them and how to set them up and how/where I would have to drill to set up a ported vacuum port if it didn't run well without one.
All of my carbs are the same: AUC 6020 cast into the body. The AUC 6020 is a H2 cbody (1 1/2") throat that was in proeduction from 56-62 (so period correct for when I look at historic rego). One body as a 2 in a circle afterwards in the casting indicating that it was a lete production body; cast between 59-62.
There is addtional hand scribed numbering on an oval plate following the casting. I hadn't taken much notice of it before - thinkig it was a numerical sequence to register the body or something. I stumbled across an MGA article and found that this numbering was dependent on what model car the carb was used on, and from what I gather was etched by hand when they were installed. MGA used 6031 for the front and 6033 for the rear carburettor and Triumph used 6031 for the front and 6032 for the rear. Mine are numbered 6031, 6033 and 603S, although the latter one could be 6035 or 8 that has been poorly written or worn. I can't find any detail on that nomenclature - perhaps it was designed specifically for a triple application and is marked as S for supplemental.
The postion of the carb, and the numbering etched on the carburettor, details what machining was done. So although the bodies were produced identically thay were machined differently depending on the the vehicle theyu were supplied for and what application they had in the setup. 6031 was drilled and tapped for the choke arm and 6032/6033 were drilled for a vacuum advance fitting. I expect that there was an option for a carburettor to be drilled for the choke and ported vacuum if it was a single carburettor model. The MGAs were all tein carburettor models so ne detail was available.
That had me running up to the shed to check. The front carb is fitted for the choke and the casting port for the vacuum advance has a brass plug and is has no holde drilled into the body. The centre caburettor has no maching for the choke and the vacuum advance casting is filled with aluminium that has been peened over. On closer inspection internally I located a small hole behind the butterfly. It was well camoflauged in among the the carbon staining - but definitely there. The rear carb has no casting for the choke and was fitted with a threaded brass plug. Removing the plug revealed a tiny hole that is drilled throgh the casting just behind the butterfly. So it looks like there was never a ported vacuum issue - it was always there staring me in the face - just blocked off.
This makes my decision to block off the threaded port into the manifold balance tube simple and resolves my problem on how to resolve the distributor vacuum advance problem.
So does anyone have any idea on what the 603S marking is related to on the thrid carburettor?
While I was up in the shed I compared the FX/FJ gearboxes to the one that came with the FC. The differences in the castings are quite clear. I will have a good look at their internals - if you know anyone that needs origianl FX/FJ boxes let me know. Happy to trade for an FC version as a spare.
"If you know anyone that needs original FX/FJ boxes let me know."
(raises hand)
Not that I've blown up a gearbox in the last 30 years (say), but a source of supply is always useful. Particularly if any of the Humpy people want an original gearbox.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on September 26, 2025, 03:23:00 PM
"If you know anyone that needs original FX/FJ boxes let me know."
(raises hand)
Not that I've blown up a gearbox in the last 30 years (say), but a source of supply is always useful. Particularly if any of the Humpy people want an original gearbox.
Rob
Messaged you with and offer I'm sure will work for you!
A little more progress this afternoon.
Picked up the JB weld, applied it to the manifold and bolted it up over the locating rings. I trust that by the time I get to it tomorrow afternoon the locator rings and the manifold are one and we cen move onto the next task.
On the down side I haven't come up with a supplier for the SU threaded vacuum nipple. Early days yet so I'm sure one will trun up. However, if someone has any recommended suppliers it may help in the search. I have a mate who resotres carburettors for as a side hustle that will probably have some leads that I can chase down.
Got a call this afternnon from Canberra Brake and Clutch. Drove into town and picked up the goodies. I now have seven machined and usable brake drums. Two Standard (20 thou over) for the front, two 60 thou over for the rears and three 90- thou over as spares. They have matching shoes (standard and plus 60). The wheel cylinders, clutch slave cylinder and the brake and clutch masters have all been sleeved with stainless and new wire wound brake lines have been provided along with a standard hose for the clutch.
So the bets that make her go are coming together, the steering column has been addressed, the king pins and suspaension are done and the bits that make her stop are now done. Now it is a matter of cleaning up the steering linkage, putting the front end back together and finishing the rust repairs so she can start to go back together. Then it is only body prep, paint and the interior to do.
If you write it quicklyit doesn't sound like much - but still steering in the right direction so that is a plus!
I got one got a Holley via speedflow retailer
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Quote from: Errol62 on September 27, 2025, 08:23:54 AM
I got one got a Holley via speedflow retailer
Thanks Clay,
I have been through their catalogue but don't think they have a solution that will work for me. I found a thread in an MGA forum that included a 1959 of the SU. They indicated that the thread for the vacuum advance nipple/plug for the 6020 SU is 7 x 1.0 metric (M7 1.0). An odd thread today, so I thought that they had it wrong. From my inital look I thought it was 1/4" BSPP/BSPT given the origin of the carburettor. I had not checed by measurement so I went up and chacked; sure as eggs we are dealing with an M7 1.0 thread.
The FC Master Parts Cattledog lists the spark control as being 3/16" flared tube so I expect that the flared nut would be 3/8" 24 TPI. 3/8" 24 TPI inverted flare nuts are pretty easy to come by so making up a har vacuum line shouldn't be too difficult.
M7 1.0 is an odd thread size that I haven't been able to find an adaptor to 3/8 24TPI to maintain the original look and feel I could probably Frankenstein an M7 1.0 to 3/8" 24 TPI adaptor out of some 1/2" brass hex or alternatively use 3/8"/10 mm hex make a brass barb and run a short length of vacuum hose. Either way it looks like a bit of lathe time will be required to solve this one.
Why are the small things such a challenge?
I used a short length of I think 3/16†ID vacuum hose to join bundy tube to friction fit nipple on one of my HS6 SUs.
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Quote from: Errol62 on October 02, 2025, 04:41:40 PM
I used a short length of I think 3/16†ID vacuum hose to join bundy tube to friction fit nipple on one of my HS6 SUs.
I found what is supposed to be the correct part from SU in the UK; however, it doesn't state the thread sizes. The thread on the MGA site quoted someone purchasing this part from the UK only to find it was 5/16 BSF (22 TPI) to 5/16" BSB (26 TPI). I have asked the question of SU in realtion to the part so will see what comes back.
I do have some drawings of this part (dated 1968) along with another of the plug in M7 1.0 from 1959 so there was possibly a machining change at some point. It will be pretty simple to turn something up in the lathe to create a solution using some brass stock and a solder on flare to create a custom hardline or to use some vacuum tube between the two as you have done.
Once I hear back from SU I'll come up with a cunning plan.
Rained off site this afternoon so gor hoem early. Jumped into the shed and used some JB weld to blend the locator rings to the inlets. The photos below show the extent of the misalignment at either end of the manifold.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zy9CVyWb/intake-manifold-JB-weld-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zy9CVyWb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XZdwFncx/intake-manifold-JB-weld-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZdwFncx)
With luck I will take to them with a compond burr tomorrow afternoon and there will be a smooth passage for the fuel air mixture from SU to cylinder and I can tick one more job off the list of things to do.
G’day Craig - sent you a PM and email about the mudflaps last week, but not sure if they got through.
Cheers,
Harv
Hi Harv,
Sorry been away doing some remote work. Back on deck and sent a reply via messenge function on here.
Cheers
Been a while - working remotely, Christmas and a new Granddaughter all taking time away from the build.
Mrs J back at work and me now "retired" from the building game it is time to get back into it in - not that I have been completely idle (or others haven't).
So while I have been preoccupied with life I managed to get the the brakes and clutch compnenets in to be sleeved in stainless, the drums machined (I have 7 useable drums out of the 9 I took over to be looked at. A couple are on their last oversize but I now have a good set of drums. The king pins are done and the front end it ready to go back together. Diff entre has been changed to 3.55 and the bearing pressed on ready to assemble.
Over the last two days I have finished "porting" the SU mainfold to mate to the head through a combination of filling the low sides with JB weld and taking material from the high areas.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XpzPy7PC/Ported-throat.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpzPy7PC)
Throat pior to hand sanding
(https://i.postimg.cc/ctJDrVM9/Port-alignment-complete.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ctJDrVM9)
Mainfold ready for test fit
The manifold and carbs were fitted for measurement.
(https://i.postimg.cc/D8XrBvZX/Test-Fit-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8XrBvZX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/k6HSvzPc/Test-Fit-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6HSvzPc)
Finally measurements taken to confirm clearance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tnPstg59/Clearance-measurement-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnPstg59)
(https://i.postimg.cc/m1MPNrwH/Clearance-measurement-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/m1MPNrwH)
It will be tight but I think we have cracked this one. Now to get to work on the headers to get them to fit correctly.
While I was there I thought I would complete the prep for the distributor test bed I plan to build. Pulled the distributor parts bin out so I can start putting it back together. Found everything bar the body - it will be there somewhere but after an hour of searching I ditched it to finish watching the cricket. I did find my third string seized dizzy so I will try to put something together about refurburbishing it while I go through the build of the test bed.
I have to do a trip down to Albury to pick up the two Bosch Enginer Analysers I have found and will start of the front end rebuid and complete the rust repairs to the floor - so pleant to do and now finally some time to do it.
Cheers n Beers
Did the run down to Albury today and picked up the Analysers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JDvNspNg/Bosch-Analyser.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDvNspNg)
This is the one I am keeping for the shed. It will do the on vehicle analysis plus hook up to the distributor test bed that I am building as well. It is three separate components: an engine analyser, an oscilloscope for all of the electrical testing and an exhaust gas analyser. So pretty high end stuff in the day; but most can be done with hand held devices now. Itxgives the shed a good feel though. The second one has a smaller engine analyser, the same oscilloscope and a printer. So I may add the printer to the one I am keeping and make a desision on keeping the others as spares or moving them on. I asked son 2, the mechanic, if he wanted the second set and he laughed at me and said if he needs to work on some ancient shit with a carbie he will bring it home to me. Smart Arse!
I also picked up some new shoes for the old girl. 6" ROH powder coated in rims off white (similar the the ute colour) shod with Michelin 175/70s. Should pair nicely with the 3.55 centre, keep the standard look and keep up with traffic
(https://i.postimg.cc/1nVgj6Tr/Powdercoated-Rims.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nVgj6Tr)
I also fitter the headers/extractos today. The issue was the misalignment of the mounting holes with the bolt holes. This was caused by poor workmanship in the finish of the pipes. Instead of doing the job properly they simply cut V notches for most of the mounting bolts. I took to them with a burr and a rats tail file and it all goes together well, except for the bolts one in from each end. The bolt heads don't clear the exterior of the pipes so I will need to use allen head bolts there - will probably replace the lot for uniformity.
(https://i.postimg.cc/n9pM35tB/SU-and-Headers.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9pM35tB)
Headers and SU's temp mounted.
I also need to file back the locating rings. I made them too long so that I had some play so will grind them down when time permits.
The next problem to solve is where and how to mount the fuel rail. I am not sure what it was mounted to originally. I was told it was an FC when it came to me with the individual manifold mounts and that the firewall didn't have to be modified - and we know that was BS. The fuel rail also has a return line that I expect ran back to the tank. As you can see in the photos the lines seem to naturally want to hang in front of the carbies so I expect it was mounted along the inner guard somehow. I will need to get it all back together ebfore resolving this one - so time to move onto something else in the interim.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TLhtpksc/SU-fuel-line.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLhtpksc)
Good progress mate, those inlet/exhaust manifold bolt setups can be fiddly.......
Great progress Craig. ARP twelve point nuts may work for you, on original style studs. That’s what I had to use on my red with Warnerford Design swept manifold.
For the fuel I plumbed up standard diameter 5/16†hard lines straight from the pump, with SAE flares and brass unions. No regulator, rail or return feed, and no issue with flooding or leaks. I had to use small lengths of 1/4†hose to go from the 5/16†tube to the bowls.
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Quote from: Errol62 on January 09, 2026, 11:55:29 AM
Great progress Craig. ARP twelve point nuts may work for you, on original style studs. That’s what I had to use on my red with Warnerford Design swept manifold.
For the fuel I plumbed up standard diameter 5/16†hard lines straight from the pump, with SAE flares and brass unions. No regulator, rail or return feed, and no issue with flooding or leaks. I had to use small lengths of 1/4†hose to go from the 5/16†tube to the bowls.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks for the heads up. I will see what I come up with once it is in the car - If I can get the fuel rail to work I will. Not sure I wil bother plumbing it back to the tank though. If it doesn't I will follow your lead.
With the new (to me) Bosch analyser in the shed I thought I wiuld have a crack at putting the components together and running a test on the original donk. That donk is still sitting in the test bed so pretty simple to set up.
On with all of the extras - water pump, generator, wired in a start switch, connected up the fuel pump and replaced the funnel to feed fuel with a 5l plastic jerry can.
Removed the plugs, turned her over, fuel pumped from the jerry to the carby. Check 1 good.
Checked timing by eye - all seems OK. Check 2 good.
Filled the radiator, heard what sounded like a bit of a trickle inside the engine. More on this later. I suspected it was just water running through all of the galleries, so I left the radiator air bleeder tank on and full of water to cater for it drinking a bit on start up. Also to let any trapped air out of the system.
Here she is ready to test.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8FwY4V9F/20260112-133826.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FwY4V9F)
Turned the key and she started but stopped after about 5 seconds. A small adjustment and it was running on the third attempt; reasonably smooth idle at about 740 rpm (according to the machine). She stumbled a little on acceleration so I suspect that the weights a good clean as after a few runs she loosened up and ran fine. This is not the dizzy for the rebuilt donk so I am not overly concerned. Ran the old girl for 10 minutes - no oil leaks, no water leaks and appeared to be purring nicely.
Then I heard a sizzling sound from the carby side of the motor so I look over and see emulsified oil sizzling on the exhaust manifold.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4mZzfhnj/20260112-123926.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mZzfhnj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D8Fqvb8Z/20260112-123929.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8Fqvb8Z)
It all starts to make sense now - the donk still has the reconditioners tag on her when I got it, but compression was low. The trickling noise was probably water dribbling into the sump - pretty sure this old girl has a faulty/blown head gasket. Perhaps bringing her back won't be that hard after all - perhaps I should have just started with her instead of redoing the EK donk I picked up.
A short video of the events
[youtube=425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgVxH0PDJsg[/youtube]
Well that didn't work at all. Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgVxH0PDJsg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgVxH0PDJsg)
After yesterday's dissapointement I headed back out into the shed to get to the bottom of the problem.
Ripped off all of the bits and pieces that were in the way and found this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DmGpx11d/Milk-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmGpx11d)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8svXZLL4/Milk-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8svXZLL4)
Seems to be too much milk for a blown head gasket. Based off this and the trickling sound I heard yesterday I started to suspect a cracked head/block or damaged welch plug.
When I removed the head it wss clear that the copper gasket was still in good shape. The water jackets could definitely do with a clean though.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Rq1yMcqn/Head-Gasket.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Rq1yMcqn)
It was also pretty clear that this engine had not been to a reconditioner - I can only assume someone placed the reconditioner's tag on there as some sort of joke. Not the sort of thing the widow would have done when I picked the old girl up from the farm. I could not find any evidence of where the leak had originated from; however, it was pretty clear from the dispersion of the milky oil that the contamination was being pumped up from the sump. With nothing jumping out at me I filled the radiator with water hoping to locate where the leak was coming from. It didn't take long until the culprit was identified. If you look closely at the next image you will see water pouring out of the welch plug immediately above the fuel pump.
(https://i.postimg.cc/F7LfdH5v/The-culprit.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7LfdH5v)
The amount of contamination was pretty bad.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hjfng1cj/Drain-Sump.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hjfng1cj)
On the upside the bores are in good shape and from it running yesterday I expect the bottom end will be so as well. I will do some detailed measurements when I get to pull her down over the next week or so. I trust I will be able to give her a clean, a hone and have her back on the test bed as a ready to go spare. We will see where that ends up.
While I was up in the shed I finished the generator/regulator testing machine. It was a failure - the voltmeter (AliExpress) is so far out it isn't funny. I checked a fuly charged battery with my Fluke Multimeter at 12.75V. I connected up the "new" test unit and it read 4V. I don't have a means at the moment to test the ammeter side of it; but that is coming. This morning I closed a deal on an old Durst Ganerator/Alternator test bench. It is missing the Voltmeter but Durst have tole me that they may be able to provide an original from one of their scrapped machines but at worst case a new meter with the matching multiplier resistors. Analogue guages with multiple scales read millivolts across different sized resistors that provide the same full scale deflection based on the maximum voltages - which in this case is 10 - 20 - 50V. Until I get the voltmeter working I will simply tap into the wiring with a digital voltmeter to provide the info re
The parts for the distributor tester are slowly coming in so I trust that I will have a full test setup by early next month. Once I have the test benches set up they will be availble for use if you are in the area.
Next step is to build a growler to check starter motor and generator armature faults. I am a way off setting up to rewind armatures but I trust I will get there in the longer term.
I can't affor to lose track though - I have to finish the ute first!
Good news on the leak then 😃
Easy fixed 👍
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I picked up an alternator/generator test bench for the shed today.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HDgS15w/Test-Bench.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HDgS15w)
There are a couple of problems with it, which is probably why I picked it up for a song:
- the load switch is permanently closed - not a problem as I can wire something in if I can't find a replacement from Durst themselves
- The voltmeter is missing but I can easily wire in an auto ranging digital substitute until I can source a replacement from Durst (or elsewhere).
- The ammeter appear to be wired in parallel with two sides of the positive feed from the batteries. This is very odd as the ammeter should be in series to function. I need to look into this a little further as it just doesn't seem to be correct. Durst opens on Monday so I trust I will be able to talk them into providing me with a wiring diagram
- The tacho is wired to the motor but is not reading. Hopefully is is simply a connection issue, so I need to track that down
Even with the faults the ability to throw an alternator/generator onto the bench with a speed controlled and reversible motor is gold. The value of motor and bench setup, even without the instruments, is well above what I shelled out for it so a good win.
If you have been following the chromework quotes have come back in and they far exceed the budget I had allocated (prices are below excluding the G).
The quote to do everything was just $10,250 and included the guard spears all of the interior chrome etc. I have had it broken down to the major components that I think need to be done:
Front Bar - $1650
Bumperettes - $400 ea
1/4 window surrounds - $320 ea
Grille - $3500 (but discounted to $2500)
Headlight Surrounds - $280 ea
Taillight Surrounds - $120 ea
Indicator Surrounds - $250 ea
Total $6890 still $3.5K over what I thought it would cost. I guess I had unrealistic expectations. So I have been thinking about options and think that I have a plan that may just work.
If I get the front and rear bars, 1/4 windows, guard spears and tailgate badge rechromed I reckon I am at my $4K budget and the standout shiny bits are done and dusted. I already have a set of powdercoated off white deep dish rims with FC caps that are in good condition. The chromework on the grille, front indicator housings and the bonnet bird are pretty shoddy. The headlight surrounds are painted and I have a set of painted and daily driver chrome tailights as options.
My plan is to deviate slightly from doing a full resto and create a factory sleeper with a view to potentially scraping up good condition brightwork down the track (or not if I really like the painted finish).
I have come up with two and a half options that I am considering. The car will be India Ivory as it came out.
Option 1. Front and rear bars, 1/4 windows, guard spears and tailgate badge new triple plated chrome. Grille, headlight and tail light surrounds in satin aluminium. Bird - ditched.
Option 2. Front and rear bars and 1/4 windows new triple plated chrome. Grille, headlight, tail light surrounds, guard spears and tailgate badge in satin aluminium.
The half option is either of the above with a hybrid grille: surrounds, vertical bars and indicator housings in satin aluminium and the horizontal bars in satin black to blend in with the engine bay/radiator.
I guess option 3 could be to paint the headlight and tailight surrounds in India Ivory and source a daily driver grille and indicator housings so she looks stock as a rock (less the wheel - I do have a set and a half of stock rims at my disposal if I go that route.)
I know opinions are like bum holes; but I would appreciate thoughts from the masses on how the options might look in real life as opposed to in my imagination.
Cheers n Beers
Jolls
I know it is getting harder and harder to find original chrome in usable condition. Still, I scour the swap meets and other sources and use the best I can find. I think the painted option looks good on a ute too, as long as it isn’t blinged up with special side trim.
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Quote from: Errol62 on January 30, 2026, 07:52:03 AM
I know it is getting harder and harder to find original chrome in usable condition. Still, I scour the swap meets and other sources and use the best I can find. I think the painted option looks good on a ute too, as long as it isn’t blinged up with special side trim.
I'm with you, I have already started scouring - It has been so long since I had chrome work done I had an unrealistic expectation on the price now. I'm sure stuff will become available. I looked into the Caswell setup to DIY and it was around $3K before adding in the wiring, building a dedicated bench and building the $25K shed to house it in.
I'm with you on the side trim - and I think that satin aluminium on the grille and headlight suppronds is the way to go until I find decent replacements. I might experiment with the hybrid grille and see what it looks like. I can always paint over the black with satin aluminium if I don't like it.
I kind of like the look of the early utes with body coloured most everything. Might be an FE thing?
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Pretty sure FC was the same. Mine is a late model (59) and came with painted headlight and tail light surrounds. I have only seen one FE with a painted grille and can't say if that was from the factory or if it was to cover up poor chrome. I think the chrome bars and grille make a 50s car.
Craig ..Just red your price quote after post my experience with All Metal Bumpers ..PHEW !!! price increases are huge my job was half that .. I also had a quote from a plumbing co. recently , for work on the house ..he said it would be two days , two junior plumbers ( learning on the job ) and one supervisor ..Quote $15,000 ...no copper just plastic ..crazy ,,,Vern .
Up until 1 Jan I was a builder/electrician so I know how much plumbers can charge. There are some unscrupulous mobs out there though. I had a plumber that I used for my entire time building and we had a good system and was charged reasonable rates. I got stuck one time and needed a pipe extended that had been broken off in a wall by one of my regular customers. I called what I thought was a local guy and he turned up but when he went to extend the pipe and found he was out of silver solder. I had one of my boys drop some off to him and he extended the pipe - took about 15 minutes in total.
He then charged me his $600 fixed rate for installing copper up to 6m in lenght plus a $165 call out fee. We had a bit of barney over the cost - should have been his call out fee and a few $ extra. Long story short I backcharged him $500 for silver solder and $100 travel for delivering it and paid his clal out fee. Never heard a peep out of him. Ring around there are still some decent guys out there.
I lucked in yesterday and picked up a bunch of FE/FC parts from a "Toyota" guy who found a box under his house when he moved in.
The box contained:
FC Speaker Grille and radio cover plate - Grille good nick - cover plate one minor blemish but useable.
- Rare spares front and rear mudflaps. The original invoice was with the front mudflaps - $292.50 on 25 May 1994. they are not the same as the NASCO mudflaps - no metal bracket just screws through the rubber up into the bottom of the guard.
- Upper grille surrounds - minor pitting - will replace the below average ones I have at present so I now have a 75/80% grille solution. I have one lower grille surround (horizontal) that is striaght but peeling chrome and have one with great chrome but accident damaged so will keep chasing a replacement for that or bite the bullet and pay for rechroming.
- FC horn ring with button - both good nick and useable. Will probably use this horn button in place of the one I repainted as I like the "aged" look a little better.
- FE horn ring with button - ring pitted and button flaking. I will try another method to remove the paint in the horn ring and redo it like I did the FC one. I will probably mount the ring and button on the wall in the bar.
- A floor shift - not sure it is grey motor though - need to have a bit of a play with it - I won't be using it either way.
- Boot lock, and boot badge for an FC sedan. The badge was broken but the resin component was good but faded. Will repaint it and pass it on - the lock works but no key for the barrel.
- Accelerator pedal and the horizontal accelerator linkage.
- Sunvisor bracket with original fittings - good condition and will polish up well. I have one on the visor I have already so it is a spare. I am in two minds about using the visor - never had a car with one so not sure of the benefit.
- Vacuum wiper motor
- Lion badges for the sedan rear quarters without the special badge
- A marked but useable over-rider for the front bar
- A thermostat in original packaging and
- A bunch of nuts bolts etc that I have yet ot go through
Not a bad find out of the blue. A couple of parts in there that may help others out down the track. The mudflaps, grille parts and horn badges I'll be using for the ute/bar but the rest is up for grabs to cover costs of anyone in interested.
Craig,
Boot lock (barrel, not the mechanism?). Doesn't matter that there's no key. I'd end up re-tumblering it to suit "Found Object". Add it to the Delco distributor after you've done the distributor up.
Rob
Quote from: ardiesse on February 01, 2026, 09:51:05 PM
Craig,
Boot lock (barrel, not the mechanism?). Doesn't matter that there's no key. I'd end up re-tumblering it to suit "Found Object". Add it to the Delco distributor after you've done the distributor up.
Rob
No problems.
Hi Craig ..Burns and Co auction last night ..you can view auction results on their web site ..lot 29 ..* FE FC headlight rims sold to somebody for $20.00 ..8 of them ..dirt cheap ..they may tell you who bought em and you can get a couple ...Vern ..
G?day Craig,
Tried PMing you, but not sure my PMs are working. Can you please PM me so I can sort out the mudflaps? Looking to put them back on the ute to sell it.
Cheers,
Harv
Hi All,
Sorry I took som overseas work so have been offline for a while so the FC has been sitting on the rotisserie gathering dust. I have a bit of catching up to do now I am back so I have turned my hand to doing small jobs that I can knock over spending an hour here or there. Small things like painting rocker covers, sideplates and manifolds, cleaning and spraying the tail lights back to red and putting the accessories on the donk in preparation for its run up. This is where I am at with the motor. The go fast bits have been done for ages so relly all I have doen is play with the aesthetics and start putting it together. I plan to make new fuel and oil lines next.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CR0cTDXB/20260729-150302.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CR0cTDXB)
Nice work Craig, and that paint job will definitely conjure up a few extra ponies.
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I was going to match the paint to the colour of the ute, but thougth is would "wash out" and being a cream is only good for about two HP. I have heard that red is good for an addtional three. More importaintly, it was the colour of the engine enamel my sone had left over in the cupboard from one of his projects so the it cost nothing but a bit of time with the masking tape and stanley knife.