FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

eBay lists these belts & I'm wondering why there has been no bids at all.
The only thing I can think of is in relation to the regulations regarding webbing or the style of buckle.
They look similar to some from an outlet I've seen mentioned here called Autoluxe. No idea if their product has issues at all in any states either.
Any thoughts/advice welcome.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Vintage-style-seat-belt-set-Suit-Holden-FX-FJ-FC-FE-FB-EK-EJ-EH-HD-HR-HK-/271806710835?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:3160

I've been told you can replace early ones but in my case I need a certificate complying with Aus regs which it doesn't have

Yep any modified vehicle needs seat belts with a tag stating compliance to Australian regulations. The seller States that these are only suitable for cars prior to 1969, but I would add that it must be for an unmodified vehicle as well. It's a bit of a grey area I think, you could find RWC inspectors who interpret it differently.

Ken

Thanks NES & Ken. Now I understand the relevance - original style matching, 1969 pre regs, manufactured in USA
AU$369.00 seems like a good buy, but I think the best bet for me is go for something with an Aus Reg tag & avoid any potential for debate down the track.

Spot on - don't waste your time/money/effort on non-compliant belts. I learned the hard/expensive way.

Seatbelt Solutions in WA is absolutely the way to go.

http://seatbeltsolutions.com.au/ ($2)

Thanks for the advice Josh. I see your post on 'where to buy'.
I'll give Seatbelt Solutions & Hemco a call tomorrow & ask for some samples & details.

G'day DJ,

Like Josh said, don't make an expensive mistake.  I found Hemco great to deal with (and their factory is here in Ballarat), their belts are really good and reasonable priced.

Cheers, Graeme

Thanks Graeme. I see a few other fans for them too.
BTW the belts listed on eBay closed with 0 bids.

Dave, I purchased my new belts from Repco, they are from Klipan although I have retractable outers with lap middle belts although you can get standard belts if you are going to use them.
Jim

Thanks Jim, I had forgotten about Repco. They have a local outlet here I can visit.
Many of us drove for years without any belts, yet retractables feel right to me now in 2015 - even in an FC.
Just need to get my head around some of the diagrams I've seen lately on the anchoring angles.

If you are going to have the car engineered then you will need to have separate mounting points for each belt. Talk to any seat belt fitting station as they will be able to fill you in on what is required. I spoke with my local guy who is also a customer and I went a bit bigger with the mounting plates just to be safe, although I don't need to get mine engineered as the rebuild is still a standard car, just upgraded to retractables for ease and safety.
Jim

Thanks for the tip Jim. Will follow up.

Hey Jim my belts in the centre have two belt ends going to the same point on a 100mm square plate. I argued that current manufacturers do this but there is no legislation on dual into one. My engineer likes what I have done- others may say one bolt per plate etc.

G'day NES,

The "two belts into one bolt" setup is generally frowned upon. NCOP Section LK Seating and Occupant Protection, Seat and Seatbelt Installation/Removal Code LK1 2.3.1 Lap Anchorages:

Unless supported by engineering evidence, the lower seatbelt anchorages must not be superimposed, i.e. each seatbelt must be anchored by separate bolts.

Some engineers will turn a blind eye, some will not.

DJ,
I recently went through the "diagram drama" for my EK wagon. My engineer is pretty pragmatic, but really fussy about seatbelts. I had to document compliance - lots of photos and measurements. I have started writing up the process (lots of photos, simple diagrams, simple English) with a view to one day turning it into a Guide. The document is a bit rough, but may help to get your head around it. Let me know if you want me to email you a copy.

Cheers,
Harv

I guess this brings me to my question - should I run seatbelts in the back on my wagon?  I can't remember the last time I had back seat passengers......  The wagon has always had front belts - wouldn't drive a car now without them.  Are there any legal requirements to run rear belts in a modified car?

Cheers, Graeme

Would love a copy please Harv. Being pragmatic & serious about belts sounds ideal to me.
dave.bolton@tpg.com.au
I believe the ACT uses the NCOP only to check compliance; no unique or additional requirements for standard fitment.

Sorry to butt in on your thread DJ but have been umming and ahhing over rear seat belts for a while now and was looking for some opinions.

It's really beneficial to see questions & opinions from others.
I had thoughts about leaving the rear seat initially but (6 grandchildren) quickly changed my mind.
Was just looking through the reference NCOP section Harv noted - haven't come across any specific requirements for standard rear seats yet, other than -
Any replacement or additional seatbelt should be new and comply with Australian Standard
2596 (Seatbelt Assemblies for Motor Vehicles).

Irrespective of whether the car is stock or modified, I imagine you would still need engineering approval re: seatbelts (as it's a modification in a sense), but realistically, who's going to get the belts certified on a stock car?

Local registration inspection station? No idea.

DJ,

You have mail  ;D.

My understanding (at least of NSW) is:
a) if you are undertaking modifications that require an engineers certificate, then seat belts must be installed for all seating positions. Lap/sash seat belts are required for all front and rear outboard seating positions. Lap/sash or lap belts shall be fitted to inboard seating positions. The level of safety provided by seat belts must not be reduced. Seat belts must not be replaced by belts of a lesser standard or with second-hand belts. For example, lap only belts must not be used in place of retracting lap/sash seat belts. The use of a retractable seat belt disabling device is not acceptable.This is based on the NSW RTA Vehicle Standards Information Sheets No 6. for light vehicle modifications.
b) if you do not require an engineers certificate, then you do not need to fit seatbelts. However, if you are carrying kiddies, the following apply:
Children younger than six months must be secured in a rearward facing restraint.
Children aged six months to under four years must be secured in either a rear or forward facing restraint.
Children aged four years to under seven years must be secured in forward facing child restraint or booster seat.
Children younger than four years cannot travel in the front seat of a vehicle with two or more rows.
Children aged four years to under seven years cannot travel in the front seat of a vehicle with two or more rows, unless all other back seats are occupied by children younger than seven years in a child restraint or booster seat.
I understand that the above child restraint laws are retrospective (i.e. that they are not "grandfathered" just because the FB/EK came out with no belts orginally). You would need to fit belts to meet the above.
d) if you are installing belts not for engineering certificates or for child restraint (but more for peace of mind) then you can choose which positions get belts and which don't.
c) Any installed seatbelts (even the peace of mind ones) must be approved by an RTA Authorised Restraint Fitting Station (at least in NSW) (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=authrestraintfitting.form). This is not an engineers certificate, just an inspection and basic form to sign off and fairly cheap (>$100). Most fitting Stations will not let you do the work yourself (to a decent standard) and then inspect and certify it - most will only certify if they do the work themselves (in the end it's their signature on the line). It pays to check with the one you have in mind before you fire up the drill and spanners to DIY.
d) Some Fitting Stations require full compliance to ADR5 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2009C00157/Html/Text#_Toc1235628295870) when you install - there are some tricky bits in ADR/5 about how far apart the belts can be. Again, check with the Fitting Station you have in mind before flashing up the tools. ADR/5 has the same requirements as NCOP... same as the simplified info I just sent DJ.

Cheers,
Harv

Thank you.

I used Hemco seat belts when I restored my car. I like the look of them.  Pricing was very reasonable.  You can see the appearance of them in Members Cars on page 3, I think.
They had to be certified by a local seat belt fitter before I could obtain registration.  It all came as part of my RWC.  Rather than fitting the blue compliance to the firewall I was able to talk him into fitting it under the rubber mat in the boot.

Keith

Thanks Keith.
I called the local ACT registry this afternoon & they immediately directed me to their web site saying I needed to engage an engineer.
Called one of the three nominated on their site and he wants to have a look a the car before considering if I can fit them or if someone certified must. I expect he'll say I can fit them & he can sign the job off.
I managed to make contact with Seatbelt Solutions in WA & they will send some webbing colour samples & email photos of their range of buckles. Ran out of time to make contact with Hemco or Repco today.