FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

No Probs Shannon.

Also thanks again guys for the negative feedback on my response... can I ask the mods if we can do away with this feedback "respect" system??

I just don't see it as being constructive when an anonymous user can provide negative feedback.  The thread in this case asked for "thoughts" to which I provided some thoughts. 

In an open forum where users can post constructive comments, the fear of negative feedback by anonymous users simply stifles the open communication by imposing a judgement system on comments made by users.

I mean really... did my comments offend or justify a negative response???

it's becoming a pocket pissing contest.

Ed

Ed You are a respected car builder and have achieved what a lot would not even attempt .I would not be to concerned about  you respect score most of us regular uses have been the victim of these cheap attacks with some members loosing as many as 15 demerit points in one attack . I also think it's time this judgement system should be abolished [ hear I go into the negative score again] .....FC427.......

I have to say I thoroughly agree with you Ed and Mark.  The points thing is one of the reasons we have been very quiet and very loathe to put anything on the forum since it's introduction.   I said my piece then and was ignored - but what would I know?

I believe at times that if people have an opinion or a way of doing something different to socially accepted norm for early models they have been penalised for thinking outside the square - so - because we think a little differently due our wider interest in cars and experiences we honestly haven't bothered to contributed much since it was introduced.

It's more a popularity thing and adds nothing at all to the forum - my piece said again and now I will drift back off into oblivion......... :)

Kathi

Your support and wisdom Mark and Kathi, is very welcome, and I always enjoy the exchanges of information amongst forum participants and social banter included!

Healthy debate can only thrive in an environment where it is encouraged. I'm all for constructive criticism.


Shannon, please accept my apologies for hijacking the content of your thread.

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive about it... but I would like to think that any contributors posts are valued in the context in which they are given.. indeed a forum is only as active as the contributions made.

I do enjoy my FE's and FC's.. well maybe FE's moreso.. but if I could turn off these settings in my preferences i would do so in an instant.  I find them distracting.

I'm not sure if the moderators are refraining from comment just to see how it pans out?  I know RET puts a huge amount of time into providing a safe and happy forum, so again, this isn't to be construed as a rant about that.

it's just negative feedback makes me uncomfortable.. and I don't come here to feel uncomfortable.

Cheers

Ed

  Finally something has been said. Im sure there are many others that have the same opinion.
  You are all correct it is not a popularity contest. Thanks for your views Ed, Mark and Kathi.

  cheers
  Scott

And cos you agree with me - I'll give you a vote!  ;D Isn't that how it works?  ::) :D

I just +1'd you all...  :D

I have to agree with Ed Mark and Kathi.  I do not like this "popularity" voting system. There is a tremendous amount of extremely useful information on this forum and I am sure that all of us have benefited from time to time.  After all everybody has their own views on certain things and should be respected for it.  Sorry for the hijack of the original thread.

Keith

  yep and ive never been so positive ;D ;D ;D

Ditto Keith

I second all of the above

I have drifted this way from modern ls1 forums because of the peer groups taking over, and negativity from unknowns seemingly coming from nowhere. It all takes away from the community aspect of the forum

Not trying to make any waves, but I really enjoy the more laid back and friendy attitude of these forums with members showing a lot more tolerance for newbs asking often repaetd qu's etc

I SECOND THE SECONDER ;D
I really do not think that there is a need to rank ones input into forum such as this. It does leave a stale taste in the mouth if negative feedback is received for what ever reason. If it's turning people away from the forum and with 3 long standing contributors complaining about it then I think it should be removed. To put a negative feedback on Ed's comment is just petty IMHO.
+1 for Shannon for starting the thread and getting it hijacked :D :D
 

Good points !!!  I don't usually become involved in matters political , however  , may I throw in my 2 cents worth ?

This is the best forum in which I participate  ... and I am a member of several involving my other interests and pastimes .

It is by far the most helpful , informative , well attended and , at times , amusing of those forums and I have made friends with a number of members.

It is , in my opinion , a good thing to give credit and approval when and where due , however the "respect" system , although well intended has the unfortunate weakness that it can be misused ...

I can recall one instance when a friend got "hammered" when he cracked a quite funny political joke ...

Perhaps a system similar to Facebook where posts can be "liked" or credit plusses may be registered , but not minuses ???

Evidence of the weakness of this system can be seen in this very thread ... just look at the numbers ...

"Out of order" comments could be dealt with by the moderators ...

...just my thoughts ...

This system is childish, counter-productive and something the forum would be better off without...

I treat it with total disdain and complete disregard.

(having said that, I'll admit to casting votes sometimes; +ve ones to every post that calls for the abolition of this stupid system!)

It is also wide open to abuse; consider could happen if a group of, say 8 or so members collectively decided to vote down (or up!) EVERY post made by a paricular member since this system was introduced?? That person could end up with a 'respect' rating of + (or - !) 100 in a very short time!

This sort of shite is NOT what I'm here for, but it sure as hell appears to be threatening what I AM here for...

However I accept that other users may like it, so maybe the Admins could set up a poll on this subject?

Thanks for bringing this post to my attention Jack, I agree with all the above comments this idea is open to abuse by anyone who takes a dislike to anyone on here, that is one of the reasons I too haven't been on here as much anymore but I was afraid to say anything in case I got voted out of existence, I've never given a vote either way and never will, I've only been starting to get back on lately and I notice I've been given a negative vote already, for what I have no idea as I always try to be helpfull and friendly to everyone whether they drive a dead stocker or a wild custom, personally I believe anything that deters people from participating in this forum is bad idea and should be discontinued.

I had no idea about the voting system at all so it shows how much i notice
 i cant say i would ever vote on someones comment just seems silly.
Im sure i recieve a lot of negatives i tend to ramble on with shit sometimes but i do mean well and the only reason i use this forum is for help and to help others and the odd joke.


Pete

on many other forms when liking/disliking a post, at the bottom of that post that persons user name is posted under the like or dislike symbol, and a push notification is sent the post user telling them of the of the post and who liked/disliked their post,
and against the user name they get + numbers and no -, it can only go down 0
I do like this system, as people you freely give knowledge get credit where credit is due, with no repercussions of negative feed back as posters of the negative feedback if unwanted, get there come-uppance

I think a poll would be a good idea, I can see both sides of the coin. You upset someone & they could go through all your posts & vote them down. This forum has given me the confidence to do most of the work on my cars myself through the information & support from fellow members. I have also made some good friends & would hate to loose the wealth of information that they impart.

Dean.

I'm curious as to why when I came on here anonymously last night my name was already signed in, I went off and back on again a few times and it was still there, It's never happened before and it's strange how it happened after I made that comment yesterday???
           Pedro

The list is -
 ;)

Thanks Stinky, my apologies for jumping to conclusions, you've been awfully quiet on here lately, must be doing heaps of upholstery ;)
           Pedro

Well I certainly haven't been working on my own cars  :'(

Bummer, you finally got the shed all set up and now you can't make use of it.
             Pedro

 When can we get a poll under way?

Pedro leave stinky alone
he has a heap of "IMPORTANT" jobs on the go  ;)

One of those jobs wouldn't happen to be one of yours would they Pete ;).
              Pedro

Yes an FC interior in flat pack is getting done back to stock looking.

Didn't know you could get an interior in flat pack Pete, do they sell them at Ikea ::) ;D
                           Pedro

Hmm, I seem to have come into this late, because I've no idea what it was that sparked the thing off. Anyway, my 2c...

All the theorising about ganging up on people and downvoting them is all quite valid, but it's never actually happened*.

The point of the +/- system was to alleviate some burden from the moderators. A post (eg a joke) that people found unacceptable would disappear if it got enough downvotes (5, from memory), without requiring mod intervention. People can -ve something when they might not necessarily go to the trouble of clicking "Report Post" and making a more formal "complaint". (When they come up, we take them seriously, of course.)

Obviously it would be quite negative to only ever have downvotes, so by the same token, posts that are helpful or particularly good can be upvoted.

Now I'm not wedded to the good post/bad post mod - if most people would prefer it abandoned, then I'll remove it. Personally, I'm in the habit of upvoting anything I like - joke, technical advice and so on. I'll only downvote if I think a joke is in really poor taste, or when there is advocation of illegal vehicle mods, negative comments about VicRoads, RMS etc that are just not constructive and so on.

I see a lot of replies that say "thanks, that's good advice", "you should do what <someone> suggested", but no upvote to go with it. In my opinion, if there was more use of the upvote, then the occasional downvote wouldn't be a big issue.

I'll take it up with the Site Admins, and see what the consensus is. If they want to put it to a public poll, that's what we'll do.

cheers
RET

(* Two people did it to each other once, which was pretty much self-defeating.)

[Edit: never mind, found origin of discussion.]

Ret, I wasn't aware of the systems potential to alleviate some of the burden from the mods; if it achieves this aim without causing undue problems then it's a good thing...
But the system DOES appear to be causing problems for some contributors.

And whilst there's thankfully been no 'ganging up' on people and downvoting them, the potential is definitely there - just ONE person here (purely as an experiment) managed to vote another UP from +5 to around +66 in the space of a few minutes!
(said person then 'owned up' to the up-voted one who was most amused... and said person will now seek the assistance of a long-suffering Admin to restore the status quo ::))

I hope that after more discussion on the pros and cons of the system, the Admins will see fit to put it to a public poll.

cheers, jack

 

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I thought Dean became awfully popular all of a sudden 70+ now, lucky the person who did it remains unnamed or they might have gotten into trouble ;)


Sounds fair to me RET.
                     Pedro

Yeah, Pedro, but he's a good bloke anyway!! (I'm talking about Dean; not the 'unnamed' shifty bastard who voted him up...  ;D)

What can I say...my fans love me :P.
Seriously though, if the mods can cull my sudden popularity so I can get my swelled head back in the door :P ;D.

Dean.

Dean...
what's wrong with plus 69 ? that could definitely give you a swelled head though. :D :D :o
Nick

OK, the site admin team have had a chat about it, and agreed to trial a compromise solution that hopefully alleviates the main issue people were having with the feature.

Upvote and Downvote is still enabled, and if a post receives gets downvoted to -5, it will disappear. This is the main purpose of the feature, so that you can mark posts you think are not appropriate for the site, and if enough people agree, the post will disappear, without manual intervention by the moderators. (Of course, if you feel something is seriously inappropriate, the "Report to Moderator" option is always available. When users go to the trouble of putting their concerns in writing the Mods take it seriously.)

However, aggregate +/- scores for forum members are no longer displayed*. As a result, there is virtually no benefit in gaming the system with lots of votes for a particular person's posts in either direction.

If you feel strongly enough about the issue of posts being downvoted, there is a spot in your Profile under "Look and Layout Preferences" where you can choose to ignore Downvotes and show posts that would otherwise be hidden. They will appear "greyed out" if you do this, to alert you to the fact they have been disapproved of by 5 or more fellow users.

We believe this should resolve the issues with Upvote and Downvote.

cheers
RET

* Top Ten Most Respected is still available from the More Stats link ($2).

Understand Richard, sounds fair enough.

regards
John