FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hi all, I just received these superchargers after buying them 12 months ago.
Not sure if they can be restored or not but the larger one has Norman stamped on it and the smaller one has no name but has L96/105 stamped on one end.I was hoping I could put the smaller one on my grey. The larger one weighs a ton.If anybody has any idea on their ID or who may be able to help to restore these that would be great.

Thanks Gary.
(http://s9.postimage.org/5ikrgdywb/004_Copy_3.jpg) ($2)

(http://s9.postimage.org/r83epc9gr/007_Copy.jpg) ($2)
The red one is the smaller of the 2

would look great gary mounted up on a dummy motor.... ;)

I have found a bit of damage to the liner in the supercharger I intend to restore, does anybody know what material available today that would better suit the liner than the original? Also I would like to  source a more efficient vane material other than the bakelite.
If anyone has any experience with putting 1 of these things together or knows of someone who could pour some light on the subject it would be appreciated. I have looked at all photos and read all articles re Norman Superchargers available on the net. The lubrication of the supercharger and  top of the bores seems to be a major problem that could be reduced with more efficient materials to reduce friction and heat
Gary.

Anybody know where I can get a race type harmonic balancer made to suit grey with pulleys for three v belts?

Thanks, Gary.

gday gary  
good score there 8) 8)

im in the middle of fitting my norman  to the EK  8)
for the crank pully  if you change the harmonic ballancer to the newer type grey motor one
(similar style to the red motor with the 3 threaded holes in it)  go look for a 4cy commy they have a 3 row belt pully on the crank it will bolt straight on to the grey balancer
or you can run gilmer pullys  
i like the 3 row vbelts looks more old skool  ;D

you can make new vanes out of circuit board material you should be able to buy it fairly thick still
thats what my new ones are made from

you can buy lube adatives from race fuel places mix it in with the fuel  works a treat you  can even get scented ones http://shop.viperizerracing.com/product.sc;jsessionid=13B404F72BBAD5D8C07A3265C12A4E15.qscstrfrnt04?productId=4&categoryId=3


cheers dave

Only in the middle? So it's not going to be finished for 5 more years  :P

well its in the middle of the final few things lol

you need to buy more parts off me so i can finish it  ;D

Thanks Dave, I will sniff around for the pulleys,  Have you checked out that 3inch (SU type)norman carby in gum tree for $3500, crazy bit of gear.

Gary.

That would be the twin needle SU very rare but $3500  ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o......FC427......

That is interesting, what is the impact of exposure to fuel ? Another option would be carbon, not sure where you would scource, but i do know these were used in normans.
g

the guy i got it from ran the car it was  in doing hill climbs , no probs with fuel at all ive pulled it down  to clean it with no signs of swelling  they still  slide freely
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/ek61/DSC09992.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/ek61/DSC09990.jpg)

Very nice Dave. Those vanes look in good nick.Are you doing anything with the liner as far as finish is concerned.
I did hear that the liners started life as diesel engine sleeves.
Do you have manifolds? and what carby are you thinking about?
I would also like to know what your thoughts are on compression ratio for the grey and max boost intended.
Thanks for any help.
Gary.

i just honed the liner but it wasnt in bad nic anyway

ive had manifolds made to suit similar style to the origionals
but making a top manifold to suit twin  1 3/4 su's  trying to keep it low and under the bonnet

they bolted them  to stock greys and reds back in the day
ive got a head thats had a bit of porting and bigger valves and will get a cam ground to suit
im thinking 6 to 9 psi will be more than enough

im not building it to race , its only a cruiser

Thanks for the info Dave, Im going to start sorting  out the fitting of the supercharger including manifolds soon as I get my hands on another grey engine including head.

Gary.

Gary Pm sent

Rob

I have had an outlet manifold made up and put some crank pulleys on.
(http://s18.postimage.org/6zmbojred/norman.jpg) ($2)

(http://s18.postimage.org/70w9hyt85/norman_1.jpg) ($2)

(http://s13.postimage.org/891rkmrlv/norman.jpg) ($2)
I have bought a carby but until it arrives I have to leave the inlet manifold.
(sorry about phone pic quality) I now need to think about ignition timing and how I set up the dizzy to retard instead of advance?
At the moment my base timing is set to 15 deg advance and Iam pretty sure I will need to maintain that for idle , I will be using water-methanol injection as anti detonant.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Gary.

I have a MSD [part number MSD 5462] boost timing master you can dial  in from 1 degree  to 3 degrees of retard for each pound of boost from a switch in the cabin  ;D ;D ;D take a look on the MSD web site .....FC427......

Thanks FC427 I printed the instructions and it sounds like just what I need without modifying my dizzy.
Gary.


 

FC 427 did you remove all mechanical advance in your dizzy before using the timing master control or do you use mechanical advance in conjunction with the timing master control? Iam having trouble with that MSD part no it seems to be no longer available.

Thanks, Gary.

(http://s9.postimage.org/g19bd0p97/001.jpg) ($2)

(http://s8.postimage.org/yygo1neo1/002.jpg) ($2)
couple more weeks (months ) maybe see if this thing works.

Gary

Gary,

Anymore updates

Rob

Rob,I just got it going today,idle only.
It is pushing out heaps of black smoke and really running rough, I think it is over fueling.
I havent worked out what lube or how much to use for the blower or upper cylinder yet.
I also need to install the water/meth injection and throttle connection.

Like I said I have only had it idling and it seems very noisy but fires first kick.
Now to resist the temptation of a little rev into the positive boost until everything is in order.

Did you get my email with pics of the manifolds Rob?

Gary.

Gary,
Yes got the photos thanks for that just what I was after. It sounds like too much fuel but that carby is a monster. With regard to lube for the vanes, oil at ratio of 1 pint of oil to every 5 gallons of fuel is what is recommended. Caster oil is what they used back in the day but I have read that this may gum up the vanes after time. Judson superchargers as used on VWs are a similar sliding vane type charger, used a device called a Marvel Mystery Oiler which mounted on the firewall, it is basically a glass bottle 1 pint with an adjustable valve to meter the flow of oil which was drawn into the inlet manifold of the supercharger. There are a couple of similar devices around from Redex and Ampco. With regard to water injection there are some kits around that use a 12V pump, solenoid and controller which only inject water when the boost reaches a predetermined pressure. Anyway enough ranting keep it up and keep us in the loop. 

Rob

dont know if it helps but in my model planes we use to run castor but gumming is a problem so now we run full synthetic with no problems or gumming at all.


pete

I have heard using trans fluid but I can't confirm this. I don't think it's rocket science really all you are trying to do is provide lubrication to the vanes and after that make sure it will burn during combustion. I think any light cheap lube will do the trick

Rob

i sometimes work on masport vacuum pumps for grease trap trucks and they run same sorta vane style,they just use vacuum oil.........
not sure if this helps at all

They make special oil for supercharges you can buy it from Toyota for the SC12 SC14 Supercharges or from Holden for the Eaton Supercharger when I worked at Shell I asked the Chemist in the lab he said that rotary screw air compressor oil is very similar  ??? ???......FC427.......

Oh yeah, but doesn't it smell cooool !!??

Back in the olden days we used to put castor oil in the petrol in our standard greys just to get "That Racing Car Smell" .
(And stop laughing)
Gaz

Finding it pretty hard to find a happy medium between too rich and too lean, what seems to be ok for idle becomes too lean at revs and what seems rich enough for revs is too rich for idle.
Im thinking it may be my manifold design.

My young bloke put a video of it running on youtube but I dont know how to put the link on here.
It is called Norman Grey. It isnt very clear but the boost/vac gauge goes from 15 vac to about 5lbs positive at about 3000rpm

Thanks, Gary.

Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x9rSqMfkKk

Just great Gary sounds fantastic. 5 pound! How good does it drive?
Well done

Rob

What carbie is it ,that you are running Garry?

regards

Weddo

Thanks Rob, I havent driven it yet, the throttle set up needs a bit of a tidy up it is still original and when it pulls the butterfly over centre it
tends to stay that way.
So would be a bit scary stuck on full noise and speaking of noise geez that thing makes a racket.

Weddo that carby is a norman 3 inch twin jet and getting the needles and jets right is proving difficult. Just too much fuel or not enough.
I think its a matter of finding the leanest needles I can find and and start again.
At the moment I have 1 needle as lean as I can get it and the other set to idle.

Thanks, Gary.

What needle combination are you running at the moment Gary?

regards

Weddo

Im not sure what the needles are Weddo a few came with the carby.
There were two that are really quite large with very slight taper, I used these the others are half the width and I think they were for methanol. There arent any markings on them at all.I think they maybe 2 inch su needles and jets but not sure.
Everyone around here think it is a part of skylab.
I will be pulling it apart again soon so will try to post some pics.

Gary.

Gary, I am not familiar with the three inch SU carbs, but most SU carbs work on the same simple principle and there is not much to adjust.
If your carb has not been coupled to a supercharger and running before, my guess is needle sizes need changing.
All metering neeles will have a number on them (you might need a magnifying glass) and are stepped in 1/16th increments/stations (up to 16 in total)
Here are a few links to SU sites and needle selection charts that may help to select needles that fatten up fuel delivery at the top end.

http://www.sw-em.com/SU%20Carb%20Service.htm
http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/suneedle/
http://www.teglerizer.com/suneedledb/index.html
http://www.teglerizer.com/suneedledb/090needlesortjava2.htm

regards

Weddo

Thanks for the info Weddo I will start playing with the leanest needles I can get first.

Thanks again , Gary.

great stuff  what crank pulley did u end up running

sounds pretty good  8) 8)

Dave I did what you said and used the new style harmonic balancer with the three bolt holes and went to the wreckers and got two single pulleys off some starfire engines and welded them together with a spacer.
Although when finances allow I will get a larger race type made with the extra pulleys included (quoted $800)

Gary

Like your work Gary.

Many years ago I had my hands on a Norman Supercharger like that. The bloke who owned it wanted $5 for it. As at the time I didnt have a holden I chose to spend my $5 on an imaculate midget farrelly mal with a waringah shire council registration sticker on it. One may conclude now that I was young and impestious. I think I was a bloody idiot. The board rode like crap so it sat lent up against the fence in the back yard for a few years until I gave it to a mate's little brother who trashed it properly on the rocks at Greenmount.
There used to be an old bloke at Coorparoo in brisbane who used to fiddle with carby's. If you let him have your car he would turn needle and seat sets and make jets and even restrictors. He'd just keep fiddling until he came up with something that seemed to work.  I dont suppose you would have a guy like that over there ?

Mark