FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hello, I have a question or wanting feedback like a vote oh what dirrection to go. I am in Perth and have been declined approval to fit an injected 304 because the rules are if the car weight is less than 1100kg then max engine size is 4 x weight or 3 x forced. So my FE ute is 1075kg thus 4.4 or 3.2. I already have a red 202 but its getting tired and a rebuild is knocking on the door. I want the ute to be street strip or drive to from work on friday and race at the next meet.

Licence with:
1.138
2.186
3.202
4.V6
5.253
6.253 and fit 304 with carby style manifold - not legal
7.RB25 turbo
8.RB30 turbo
9.Skyline GTR
10.Toyota 4.0 V8
11.Toyota 4.3 V8
12.Toyota 4.7 V8

Its hard choice with jap engines as they will be reliable and more power but they are not Holden.

253 with 304 injection

I prefer the nissans myself but you cant beat the sound of a V8.

options 1 to 5 KEEP IT HOLDEN

It will all depend on your skills or how deep your pockets are.
An obvious choice would be to keep an eye out for a bargain red/black six to replace the 202, any other option than the red six is going to be lots of work and/or lots of dollars.
If you fit an overdrive gearbox you can use lower gears for quicker takeoffs, which goes some way to compensating for having a smaller motor.
A Toyo V8 would be interesting, at the end of the day they are all just lumps of metal  ;)

The cost will be about the same for all combos when including 5 speed gearbox. I have been quoted around 2-3k for all jap conversions in half cut format. Will then need radiator and so other custom parts and rego but really it will be the same. The Skyline gtr is around 6k but when you start modifying for performance it is not so bad. I do like the 304, new 210kw v6, and Lexis 230kw 4.3 v8 but not sure.

Yes the toyo would be interesting with out of the box reliability, easy 250kw tune, no issue, drop it in. It also uses the same holden v8 mounts and it would be road legal with less fuel usage. Maybe also get a 253 and keep as spare? Its not Holden though?

My choice would be for a triple Webered red/blue 202. There's your street and strip combo. Minimal hassle (!) to set up and get registered. You've already got the 202.

Cheers,

Josh

The timing lights at the end of the track don't care what motor you have  :P

Supercharged 202  ;D ;D ;D.......FC427......

Im doing the GTR thing and would not recomend it i had the RB30 in it and it would be so much simpler just to turbo that or run a RB25 head on it ATMO
 they go very hard and about the same amount of power as GTR motor.
I just like the look and sound of the RB26 and its something different.

The nissan will walk all over the V8 but its personal prference.

Have a look throught some of the build threads everyones doing one or another.

I'd like to use an SR20DET.

That would surprise a few people   :o

mate last night was saying to put a LS1 5.7 in and that would be plenty. Yes agree but what happens when the boys in blue open the bonnet and find a different engine. Does anyone know what the fine is in WA and there after?

Counting the fluffy as a V8 would get you killed here in Tassie lol


Problem with the RB26 is if ANYTHING goes wrong the cost is so much more and very boring in stock form.  10k+ for a rebuild and being an import you have the hassle of chasing up parts cause you cant just run to Repco on a Sunday arvo.

As for putting a 25 head on a 30 you would be mad to spend the money doing the conversion when you could just turbo/efi the 30 for half the price.


In stock form it would be rubbish IMO in an old girl and like the RB26 the cost to rebuild/modify for power starts to get up there.

Personally id be keeping it holden and doing like old girl said, built 202 with all the trimmings or if you want the rumble of an 8 go the path of an LS1

As usual threads like this open a can of worms everyone has a opinion

You cannot legally register the LS1 in an earlly holden power to weight he has allready stated they wont let him run a 304.

Whats the cost of a LS1 compared to a nissan RB series engine?

Parts for RB series engines are everywhere.


dont be scared to try something if someone says it cannot be done prove them wrong.

Your kidding yourself if you think NEW parts for the RB series engines are everywhere.  Sure there are more stockists now than there were 5years ago but your still paying a premium for most things due to the import costs, thats where the money is made.

A stock RB26/box with ecu & loom that's in good condition with low k's that only requires the minimum to replace (water pump, oil pump, belts etc) is going to set you back 6-10k on a good day.

Compare that to an LS1/box they average 3-5k and I still stand by my original statement that there are more parts/accessories for them than that of an import engine, easier to extract power/torque out of, less involved with initial set up and tuning.

Im not trying to start an argument simply saying that the money you'd spend putting a RB into an earlier holden IMO you'd be better off (and so would your bank account) to build up a 179/186/202 etc unless your dead set on doing something different.

welcome to my decision. all points are valid. a 202 std would be cheap but to rebuild with tripples, gbox etc will be 3-5k and basically the same as rb25 which is 2.5k front cut with 5 speed. The rb26 is 6.5k half cut with 5 speed rb25 gbox. Either will be legal. The 304 is 1.5k plus 2k for gbox. The ls1 is 3k plus 1.5k for gbox. I love the sound of the v8 though. Another option is 253 and supra gbox for 2k then 5k build to 310 with fuel injection. This would be legal still a 253. bugger........

if you want to go fast, spend the $$ on a motorbike...

The 253 option would be the most cost effective option, giving you that great v8 sound and feel without breaking the budget.  The conversion is relatively straight forward with parts available anywhere and coupled with a 5 Speed box it would be alot of fun in an FE/FC.  I don't think you would need to stroke to 310 to enjoy it.

I've got a 253 combo and all the parts for a conversion squirrelled away for that reason.
low tech, cheap and cheerful.

Cheers

Ed

I'm running an RB26 twin turbo in an EH. I did this conversion 6 years ago. Parts are easy and accessable. The Japs have all the good stuff nutted out already, you just have to put it in. I love it, it can be so lame my grandmother can drive it and then so lively it wheel spins down half track at the drags.  ;D

Another consideration is a V8 in an FE FC will never handle as good as a six ......FC427.....

My half cut off ichi bahn was $4900 complete running HKS intercooler kit HKS adjustable cam gears Ogura clutch ect put a battery in it hooked up a fuel pump sounded great???
39 thousand ks on the clock.

Sold gearbox, clutch, intercooler kit, brakes, other bits and its cost me what a RB25 half cut is worth.

Admitably gearbox owes me a lot of money but that was my choice to kit out a powerglide for it.
Also i will sell computer loom ect as im running a haltech .
i could not get a motor only at the time so i went for a half cut as you have more idea about ks and condition of what the car was like.

 

Fuel injected, supercharged, 289 Chev with stacks through the bonnet  ;D  ;D  ;D sigh...........

not legal though on both counts in wa for engine size and super charge. If it was 3lt then it is ok.

Horses for courses, perth_ute.

How much money are you throwing at your project? Ultimately, this will decide your engine upgrade.

If you want a V8 in your early girl, ask the people that have already completed this modification how much money, time and effort is involved. The same with EFI Jap motors. fchoon is a good reference point - he`s already done the mods and is happy to give assist with advice where possible.

Although I have not done it, I suspect an EFI (excluding EFI 202) motor (possibly anything other than your traditional straight 6) would need to adhere to engineering requirements similar to that of a V8 transplant (such as seatbelts, collapsible column, rack, four wheel discs, bucket seats with head rests, etc.) and that´s just stuff I can think of.

I have, however, installed a triple Webered 202 into my FC, which has been fairly simple. Seeing as you´ve already got a 202, to me, it seems to be perfectly logical. My car is now as quick as I will ever need it to be, it sounds awesome, and is different. I suspect a triple Webered FC is not so commonplace these days. Especially amongst a sea of Commodores, Falcons and Japanese imports. And the bonus is that once Webers are tuned correctly, they are perfectly streetable are reliable (hey, CraigA :))

Anyway, it`s your car, your money, your time, your effort, and ultimately, at the end of the day, you are the one that will be driving it, not me or anyone else on the forum.

Just my two cents.

Ol_Girl_58

cant say i have seen too many trippled webbered fc s do you need to modify the firewall i just bought a eh and they have butchered it to get the webbers in

fchoon,

The firewall does need to be modified:

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Ol_Girl_58/13.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Ol_Girl_58/14.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Ol_Girl_58/15.jpg)

Admittedly, the hole is bigger than necessary, but it was cut to fit a taller manifold. I ended up using a shorter one. The hole was filled in using a cake tin.

Brilliant, OT, you've just solved a problem for me. I'm off to the Kitchen shop tomorrow  ;D

Glad to be of inadvertent help, Stinky  ;D

perth_ute, back on topic - your engine transplant depends on what you are wanting to achieve. V6 powered early girls seem to be popular. But if you´re going that far, you may as well install a V8. Again, just my two cents.

One option could be to stamp a 253 engine number on your injected 304 and tell the rego dept its a 253. Thats what i would do. 

you lose very little injecting a 253 over a 304 they rev a lot better and the whole injection fits onto the 253

And what happens if the engineer wants to measure bore /stroke  ??? don't say it wont happen 2 out of the last 4 cars that I have done conversions on the engineer wanted to see the engine before the heads went on to take measurements....And with the new RTA changes in  engineering stature's  due early next year   I am sure most won't just believe an engine number .....I think gone are the days when we just stamped 307 in front of the 350's engine number and it was unquestioned by the engineer and don't think for one minute that stroking a 350Ci out to 383 or to 434 Ci is unknown to most engineers ......FC427....

You don't say who has knocked you back, in Vic the interpretation rests on the VASS engineer.  What you have quoted is the NCOP3 which recommends maximum capacity and is based on weight of the heaviest sedan available in the model not the ute. You need to watch whether you are quoting a dry weight or based on vehicle with its oil, water & petrol.   Manufacturers often quoted dry weight in the early days to reduce rego costs. If you can prove the weight of a sedan is over 1100Kg then the factor goes up to 5. Also this recommendation does not take into account what other modifications will be done to the vehicle, its a very simplistic approach - quite a poor one really because output power per litre has risen quite significantly in recent years.  If you could fit a Holden Alloytec V6 3.6 and would have close to 200Kw where the 304 is lucky to be 175 in standard form. If your fitting a chassis strengthening kit, bigger brakes, rack & pinion, tyres to the maximum size allowed this is obviously more than just changing an engine and should be considered as such. I note from the recent nationals there are already a lot of similar conversions done.
Re your original question, I would put in a Ecotec V6 with Auto or manual. The V6 is only slightly less in power, lighter compared to the V8 and much better on fuel economy and will run on any fuel you put in it.  A triple weber hot six may run OK when tuned and has good fuel but it will be harder to maintain and if you get a load of crook fuel will ping its head off.  My EH has a supercharged V6 and I am very happy with it and all approved. Good luck with your decision - Keith

I put the application in back in feb and there response was yes to a 253 and no to a 304. I am fitting power steering with drop steering rack, lsd disc rear with larger disc front, 15 inch all round, front and rear large sway bars and strengthened chassis. The new v6 would be interesting as it is over 200kw. They will not allow supercharge on more than 3lt so same issue. Think this is testing me you should have been with me eight times getting it rego'd/ They do not want old cars on the road here are more than willing to see you fail.

Option #2. Fit 253 to get rego then instal the 304 with the same 253 engine number. If you get pulled over at least your  numbers will be matching..  50 erxta cubes is always nice to have. A little more torque to get you going. Just my 2 cents worth.  Good luck.  Chris

Have a crash and the Insurance checks over the car, voids insurance, Bankruptcy? Gaol Time?

Option #3 Fit a 253. Or move to victoria and fit a 304  while you still can.  For F#@K sake.

Have purchased a 253 and supra 5 speed with crs bell housing. Its Holden so will tick that box.

Theres a nice EH panel van with a 253 in Perth, see http://www.ehcarclubwa.org.au/asr2009a.htm ($2) you might get some ideas.  Fitted as it would have come from the factory.  Good luck with your project.
Sorry about the references to EH's (thats what I have) but I really like this site specially the projects. Cheers Keith  :) :)

strange all the trouble to make it look like a sleeper  with billet wheels ?

Suppose its only ten minutes to put a set of stockies on.

very slick looking tho

G'day Everybody !

I'm living in Qld  8) and I don't want to move to Victoria.....  :)  Is the 304 legal in Qld ?

Thanx : Laszlo

Ps: Perth_Ute, good luck for your "organ transplant" !
Ps: Do it, do it now there may be a law against it tomorrow !  >:( >:( >:(

Laszlo

I am based on Toowomba and Engineer I am consulting allows 304.

Other threads state spec for maximum engine capacity to weight ratios.

Cheers

Craig D

Thanks Craig !

So, 253 (185 bhp) versus 304 [from 125bhp(1980-81) to 210 bhp(1970-71)] Which one you getting Craig ?
What about the 308 (240bhp) do you know is it legal here in Qld ?

Laszlo

 304 spec :-[  Sorry we are in Holden-land, not in AMC country......... :-[

Sorry Laszlo ::) ::)

I am talking 304 Injected ex VN Commy.

Not sure on bhp so talk to your engineer on size.

Regards

Craig

 I think you mean 283 chev, no one wants a 289 windsor in a holden  ::)

Although i have seen a 302 in a EH.



I suppose i have a nissan in a holden.

I did find out today we can use here in Qld up to 308.7 cu in engine. Any body used Turbo 350 gearbox ? Is it lots of cutting and welding?? What about the Powerglide ? Do you have to modify the gearbox tunnel ?
Thanx: Laszlo