FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hi
I am after a Canadian Grey engine, if anyone has a spare lying in the corner of their shed that they want to part with.

I am also looking for any old speed equipment for the Grey engine as well, Triple carb Manifolds, lightened flyweels, Main Bearing Cap supports, Alloy rocker covers etc.

I am in Canberra and dont mind travelling.

Is this a piss take on the Canadian block?

Poor old "newby" your about to be swamped!

EffCee, I've got a couple of greys in bits you could look at. You can call them Canadian if you want. I don't have any speed stuff though.
I have been informed by who I regard to be a very reliable & knowledgable Holden person that the Canadian grey is a fact. The first 1000 or so blocks. Don't bite my head off, just what I have been told: I can't prove it.
Colin.
PS: I am also in Canberra.

Ok,
             I will ask, what is or what is supposed to be a Canadian block??

Do we need mythbusters on the trail??

I have seen it referred to on this forum but did not really give it too much notice.


Cheers   M

have a stiff drink and start here:

http://fefcholden.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,2605.0.html

short answer on the candian block.. 48-215's are an australian car with american input (im putting it nicely). Hence the first production were made with a block that was produced in cananda, thus being known as the canadian block.

From what ive been told from my fj days, and also from my old man who has a genuine 48/215 (body 210), these canadian blocks were suppose to be a better cranck, and the blocks also are better for boring out. These were produced within the first year of production, maybe the first 250-300cars, and are maybe as scarce as my speco finned side plate. ;D ;D

But, id guess if you want one, i think FB Mad had one last year at a few swaps, and also a gentleman by the name of butch brown at wigham nsw, or stan bennett also in nsw, both the fx/fj drivers and owners clubs in nsw amay give you better leads on contacting the gentleman. Also butch would probally have loads of speed equipment, alot cheaper than ebay.

I had a look at the link in post number 5 supplied by Jonno, yeah thanks heaps mate, now you owe me a couple of Panadol cause after reading that I sure do have a headache  ;)

Good to see some bickering from years ago though  :)


Thanks   M

I think a read of the post from years ago can confirm two things - there was a different early block, and it is highly unlikely it was made in Canada.
Have a look at the picture of the grey motor in the front of the master parts book (I'm looking at the FX to FE one at the minute) - It shows a much smoother casting and less ribs than the typical engine you will see. It also clearly has a GMH logo on the side.
An analysis of this parts book describes the addition of a 3rd welsh plug at engine number 37832.

These early engines may very well have better boring ability, and may very well have been the preferred choice of early racers (both boat and car).

But here is a fact - If GMH sold it in a production car then it HAD to have a spare parts back up and be able to be serviced - This is why details in the parts books are the most reliable sources of information. To my knowledge, the early thread never mentioned this engine number and yet it is right here in the parts book!

So you can call it a Canadian block if you like (I wouldn't) but differences occurred after engine number 37832 and this is where the myth is borne in my opinion.

But here is another fact - today these early engines are rare and are certainly worth more than the later variants. A number of FX collectors I know would love to get their hands on one of these early blocks.  They date to about March 1951.

Ken

I can post a pic from the parts book if people don't have access

Ken

 sorry but cant myself the org castings were brought out from canada in canada no overheating problems occurred but in aust conditions they ran hot due to the thickness of the water jackets so new castings were built this is the reason why the early blocks could be bored to 3 1/4 compaired to3 3/16
just my 2 bobs worth
    regards greyone                ps car goes in for paint next week

The FX block that Retro refers to that I have is number 90### ( no letter prefix ) and has the round GMH logo and three of the small size welch plugs on the manifild side.Have another complete running FX engine number 84### ( no prefix ) and again has the same logo and three small welch plugs but it seems they aren't early enough to be the above discussed "rarer" engines.

They certainly differ in the external ribbing cast into the block on the manifold side compared to the later engines and from about the area at the bottom of the bores to the sump mating face they are smooth cast whereas the later grey engines I have here have ribbing cast into this area.

Terry.

& that is where they "MYTHICAL" Canadian block got is origins. As stated by many very knowledgeable Holden gurus, whose research goes into a lot more detail than most of the "Pro-Canadian block does exist camp". I am yet to see any written, photo, or hard evidence to prove they exist. All the proof I have ever been presented with basically began with "I knew an old fella who reckons.....".
But when the "Pro-Camp" is presented with tonnes of hard evidence & many, many quotes from Guru's, they turn a deaf ear....
My offer still stands. present me with one of these blocks & HARD evidence it is a "Canadian" & I will pay $2,000.

Saying that..,..I have a GMH Cast block in the shed & if you think it is what you need, let me know. Very early FJ number, has 3 welsh plugs. Also has the matching GMH cast head. Again, very rare as they are so old. Both FJ era.

Rob J

I sell Canadian beef jerky, one could eat some while looking at the Canadian block and imagine you are in Canada. ;D

EffCee,
Sorry i can't help you with a "Canadian" grey engine.
Never seen one ;)
Greyone,
A thicker water jacket would help make the engine run cooler not hotter.
ACE  8)

EffCee
Found this EK Van on eBay, thought you might be able to do a deal as he has a Canadian grey that goes with the car.  ;)

Ebay Item #200209754703

Jim

OK OK OK

So a newbie asked a stupid question. ::) When I raced speedway the blocks that we referred to as "Canadian" were the later blocks that had the larger welch plugs, late FC onward. The old timers always said that to bore a grey to 3.250 you had to have a "Canadian Block" otherwise the walls would be too thin. Nearly all the later blocks could be bored to 3.250 unless it had suffered severe corrosion or core shift. This is how I came to call them "Canadian Blocks".

Interesting.  I've never heard the term Canadian used to refer to late grey blocks, only the real early ones.

However, I do know that despite what you read/hear about the early ones being the prized examples, real speedway guys say it was the later blocks (ie EJ) that were the most keenly sought after; simply because after 15 years of making greys, most of the problems had been ironed out. There's also the matter of the least metal fatigue in the youngest blocks.

And of course, just as we FE/FC guys want our "L" blocks, so too the 48/FJ guys would be keen on the early engines.

This forum's been running for about 7 years now, and I love how the old Canadian Block story just keeps on keeping on.

cheers
RET

When I was an apprentice and did some developemental work on the Holden Grey (trying to re invent the wheel) nearly all the real early Holden blocks that I had bored to 3.250  wound up with a big hole on the bore where the cutters had broken through the bore. Some of these blocks had liners furnace brazed back into them, but were still not up to the standard of the later blocks. I remember one block that I had, I  ground all the cast flash off inside and outside the block, (and had smoothed out the water passages too) before having liners brazed back into it. The result was that the block was so weak when it was ran up on the dyno approaching 170hp the block started to flex and popped out the middle welch plug. A later check revealed that it had cracked from the top of the cylinder deck to the sump.

Hi EffCee,
I have an early block with a 4 digit engine number (6000+) which I purchased in 1962.
Also has what appears to be original crank, rods and pistons fitted.
Cheers,
Mal. 

Check the casting date cast into the block to see when the block was cast. Dont always rely on the engine number to give you the year. The cast mark will give you the month and year of casting. The engine number will give you the year of assembly.I have an engine with an NP number which tells me nothing of the year of manufacture.
                                                            Cheers GOA