FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

 G`day all , I just bought a VK Commondore with a fuel injected 202 as a donor car and I was wondering if anyone out there has done this conversion before .
Is the harness for the fuel injection seperate to the rest of the cars wiring , a la VN etc ?
Is the factory computer able to be tweaked or am I better off tossing all of the factory stuff and getting hold of a Haltech , Wolf , etc brainbox ?
What about mounting fuel pumps inside FC fuel tanks ?
Any ideas much appreciated.

Blacky,

You need to send a PM to username 'Chuck' (Charles Lark) from the NSW Club. He has done this conversion before.

Cheers,

Craig.

 Thanks Craig , he wouldnt be going to the nats by any chance ? ? ?

Blacky,

Chuck will be at the Nats, and he is definately the man you need to talk to.

See you there,

Craig.

Hi Blacky,

The Delco 808, which I believe the Vk uses is one of the most under-rated units ever made IMO.  also camira, astra, VN etc.

Far more versatile than a Haltech, Wolf or many other big dollar ECU's. C.O.M.E sings its praises highly.

Re-tunable by many places around the country.  Kalmaker allows the units to be re-mapped for good performance.

There is a forum dedicated to this, please google "kalmaker".  Alan Gibbs of Injection Connection is the main brain there, also Choco Munday who has written some helpful books on EFI , they really know their stuff.

Chuck is also into his EFI 6's and would be useful to pick his brain about stuff.

For my project, I have used the motor harness from a VN, the great thing is that a number of relays for things like headlights, fuel pumps, engine fan, A/C (if desired) and horn are easily added.  Also handy was the fusible links box.  I dont see why this couldnt be used for a VK if they share the same ECU.. keep in mind the engine harness only (VN anyway) has wiring for the sensors to ECU only, the relays were picked from the engine bay of a wrecked VN (V6 or V8 doesnt matter).

the EFI itself isn't so hard to wire up, but be prepared to spend hours routing it to the relays and fuse board of your choice.
Alternatively you can purchase "powerhead" harnesses with a hook up of several wires only.. easier if wiring is a little too intimidating or time is an issue.

fuel pumps...
the most basic set up would require a hi pressure pump and a return line from fuel rail to fuel tank.  

I'm sure u can get in tank hi pressure pumps, the depth of the tank to accomodate the pump would need to be determined.

Again, in my project, a low pressure (external) lift pump to surge tank feeding a hi pressure pump thru 3/8" lines was used although it isnt entirely necessary.

Also consider the original tanks breathe thru the cap, and this will hinder the flow of a high pressure pump, so an additional breather may need to be fitted.  A fuel neck from a EFI car does the trick.

As you will be sourcing most of it from a donor VK, Im guessing the little things like Vehicle Speed Sender (VSS) is included. this is often overlooked, however once agin adaptors to suit a range of gearboxes can be found quite easily.


Other performance stuff...

Im sure you can adapt different sized throttle bodies to suit the Holden 6.  Even if it were making a custom manifold and sticking 2 on there to resemble twin carbs!  ....now that would be cool.


Hope this helps


Cheers

Ed

Hi Guys.

Ed, while you are correct about the Delco 808 being one of the best ECUs around, the VK uses a lousy old Bosch LE-Jectronic analog ECU.

They are simple & reliable but, you can't do much about reprogramming the various parameters.

Dr Terry.

 Thanks Dr. Terry , is it worth using the original stuff , or would the wolf , haltech , etc be the plan ??

 Been talking to Alan Gibbs from injection connection about this , and he tells me that the go is to grab all the electronic bits out of a 2Litre JE Camira and modify it to run the 202 !!
Who would have thought a Camira would ever be handy for robbing parts out of !! Its a funny old world isnt it ? ?

Blacky

What is the reason for using the Camira ECU (4CYL?) over the VK?  Or is it more than just the ECU swap, i.e. sensors, harness etc...  Not doubting it, just not sure how it works.

Chuck

Chuck,

That's just ditching the VK EFI in favour of the Delco 808.

it's tunable/re-programmable etc.  same as VN comm V6/V8.

batch injection, MAP set up.

Cheers

Ed

 As Ed said earlier in the piece , the Delco system is a big improvement over the Bosch system re:adjusting parameters and aftermarket go fast goodies.
As for how to make a 4cyl system fit a 6cyl donk , I havent got a clue , but I have emailed Alan back with that question so hopefully he can shed some light on the subject.
 

Blacky,

the system will work with any number of cylinders.

as it is a batch injection all injectors fire simultaneously.

its just a matter of hooking up the number u need.

im not sure on what u would use for the ignition module and distributor tho. Hall Effect dizzy reqd (maybe VK EFI unit??)

u can adapt a commodore (or camira dependent on size) throttle body as well to the Holden 6 quite easily, this will have ur TPS and IAC.


sensors reqd these are all the same on any application.

MAP manifold air pressure
MAT manifold air temp
CTS coolant temp sensor
TPS throttle position sensor
VSS vehicle speed sender
O2 sensor

ECU controls
IAC idle air control
injectors
igntiion module and distributor.

Cheers

Ed

try going for a twin throttle body set up on the Holden 6, that would ne super sweet!!!

Hi Guys.

I think the reasons he suggested using a Camira JE 2 litre system are.

1. Is they use the same 808 Delco ECU as a VN/VP etc.

2. Unlike a VN V6 they use a dissy with a reluctor (maybe you could use the VK reluctor to drive the Camira's dissy module).

3. JE Camiras are cheap & plentiful.

One point, about using all the same sensors, be careful with the TPS they come in both LH & RH rotation.

Dr Terry.

Whats wrong with a set of carbies seems less complicated

I tell you what's less complicated, my wife's late model grocery getter. Starts first time, runs right on 800rpm at idle regardless of the conditions, gets good fuel consumption... and what's the difference?... electronic fuel injection.

No question what I'll be running.

I was wondering how this is going, I will be running a EFI manifold from a vk and want to know if I will have to butcher the firewall, my engine sits rite back about 4mm off the seem on the firewall.
also can you use the black motor headers, Ive noticed they are 6-3-1 and run 3 y peices side by side wich looks to be near the subframe rails.if these dont fit do I nead two use custom made headers?

btw I plan to run a pair of 2" SU's, as simple as they come.

 Unfortunately this project has come to a screaming halt due to the fact that the car I was going to put it in was the one I didnt end up buying just before the nationals.

Blacky,

That's a shame was looking forward to following the progress on an EFI 6 which was hopefully using the Delco.

Leon,

Curious as to why you plan to run twin SU's on an EFI 6 manifold?  Arent these the type that run up and over the rocker cover which reduce in size for a single throttle body?

Or are you planning to use a Supercharger etc?

Cheers

Ed

yes, the carbs will be on a adapter on the super charger, ducting will run from were the throttle body was to the outlet on the super charger, apparently the vk manifold gives more power than any other method other than designing and casting a manifold from scratch.
the crs kit comes with a 2 barrel manifold with a adaptor to attach the ducting but everyone seems to change this to a VK manifold sooner or later for better performance.

just a quick question, would the VK manifold fit up to a red (186) head, or how much mods are needed to make it fit. any ideas?
cheers

That's interesting Leon,

Your set up sounds different, do the carbs need any mods for the supercharger.

We have the EH sitting in the shed now and are weighing up options on what to power it with.  The big ends in the 179 are shagged.

Was thinking of tossing a blue straight in.

Cheers

Ed

Smithy, the manifold would fit, but the red-head is a 9 port as opposed to the black(Although the motor in my father's VK was red) head on the VK.

I didnt think it would but this guy used a 179 head becuase his engine builder said he couldnt garantee much of a power increase using the black head, quite different he has a black block and told me that the black block has a higher grade of iron, he has a vk manifold on the 179 head and uses a 179 balanced steel crank becuase his engine build told him the lighter crank would rev quicker, apparently the builder has a lot of experience in racing.
its kind of like using the opposite to everything I am using.
here is a link to his site about his car.
http://www.hr1966.tk

yeah alot of people whack these things straight on a blue, they are very commonly fitted to VC and VH commodores.
the supercharger cost between $250 and $350 and are always on ebay or in import parts places.
you can buy a complete ready to bolt on kit from CRS.

yesterday I had the day of work, I had no car so I went out in the morning to grab a cheapy, time was getting away so I bought the first one I looked at, its a real peice of s*%t VK berlina with 6 months rego.
The car had a miss, it didnt worry me being a holden 6, how hard could it be to fix?
I have spent a day and a half trying to fix it and got stuff all done I had to do.
I started with a new set of leads wich did nothing, I then took out a couple of plugs wich appeared to be near new so I didnt bother with the rest, I found one plug to be very loose and thought that was the problem but it did nothing.
I then tried taking one lead of at a time and every time I took a lead of it seemed to run like it did with the lead on.
I then tried a different dizzy cap but still no difference, I took everything apart and drowned it in wd but still nothing, I then tried a couple of different modules but no differerence.
I put some injector cleaner in the tank and tried reving the shit out of it with the fuel return line clamped (dont know if this does anything)
I then tried disconnecting one injector at a time.
I took no.1 of and it still ran the same, I then tried no.2 and it died instantly, ahh, something is wrong with no.1, but then I tried disconnecting no.6 and noticed no difference but a surge when you reconnect it, I then tried no. 4 and it died like when no.2 was disconnected.
any one got any ideas?
if its the injectors is there any way to clear them without removing the fuel rail?
the car sounds like its running on 5 cylinders, it doesnt get better or worse through the rev range or under load, idles rough, revs rough and drives rough.

sticky injector??

whip em out and get them cleaned up perhaps.

just got 8 of mine done for $160 bucks.

apparently they gum up with age anyway.

im assuming VK's are batch injected (ie all fire at once).
take the injector plug off, place a test globe in line, and check the injector is receiving the pulse, if your getting ignition, then u need fuel too. it's a good place to start...

great isnt it.. checking spark for fuel.


Cheers

Ed