FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hi all,

I think I have clogged the feeder pipe in the sump, or the oil pump is history. Can I get the sump off a Grey without pulling the engine?

cheers

Andy

Never had pull off a grey sump in situ but guess it would be possible if the engine mounts were undone, jack the engine up keeping an eye on stetchable,bendable,breakable engine components and assesories.

Have done it, only just, with a 350 in a HQ in situ using same procedure.

Have you made sure that it isn't a faulty pressure switch or grounded wire?? Would save you a lot of time if it was only just a faulty switch, as it's quite a common reason for the oil light staying on.Also in a well used engine at very low idle speed sometimes the oil light can come on at idle especially if engine is hot and oil is thinner in viscosity.

Yes, easy to get sump off with engine in place, don't recall even lifting motor.
Once did a piston change this way without moving engine block, gearbox, radiator etc.

The biggest stumbling block in this job is with the flat screw driver needed to remove/replace cover plate screws.
The screw driver has to be big, short and stubby, to fit in and get enough purchase.
I was lucky, I was doing the job in our large old wagon and shearing shed, and used a 'special' screw driver used by shearers to tighten the comb on the machine's handpiece. It was designed for applying high torque in greasy conditions - just perfect for a grey motor sump removal.
This screw driver was also great for going around and nipping up all the sump and sideplate screws after a rebuild. You would be surprised at how many srews are loose!
Geoff

^^^^

Just use a screwdriver with a hexagonal shaft.

You can then use a spanner to provide the extra torque needed.

Why couldn't you connect an oil pressure gauge into the engine and confirm what's happening? Easier than pulling an engine down for no reason.

Or as a quick check I'd be pulling the rocker cover off first and running the engine. Is there oil coming to the top end? If so then you'd guess that there's adequate pressure.

 As a starting point it would be easy to pull the oil pressure  switch of and the spark plugs out and crank it over to see if any oil comes out, with out running the engine just it in case it has no oil supply and causing damage by running the engine  .....FC427......

yes check it's not the switch or earth problem, i drove from lapstone to bathurst over a hundred k's with my oil light on :o figured after the first 5 to 10k's must still have oil pressure ;D but it was a long drive with my sfinkter clenched tightly listening for strange noises, at bathurst stopped for fuel oil light went out at restart and never had the problem again   

sounds like you had it wired up to your fuel sender ratbox  :D

I thought the oil pressure light was the "oops... too late" light.

Cheers

Ed

Another thing that can done to test oil pump capacity/pressure, is to remove distributor, and then with a shaft with a 'distributor like tongue' at the base, mounted on a variable speed electric drill run the oil pump and monitor the pressure with the gauge as recommended by CraigA.
If you remove the gauge (or 'T' it off) you can also establish the volume of oil that is being pumped, and if a restrictor is placed on the end of the line, you can see how much oil is being pumped as you increase the back pressure on the system.
If your drill runs at 1500 rpm, then this equals motor at 3000 rpm - a reasonable pump (with cold oil) should hold 22 psi and pump 2.5 - 2.75 litres/minute.
Geoff 

I think this was my own doing, I should have left the old oil in there!

I drove the car from Tassie back to Canberra (via the ferry) with no problems, and thought I would change the oil before heading up the coast for Xmas.  I got just north of Goulburn near Marulan when the light came on, about 120km. It just flickered once and stayed on.


Thanks for the help, I will try some of this out on the weekend

Andy

Whats the chances of the sensor being bad, it looks brand new, the car has only done 1200 miles since Fast Eddies restoration.

I will try hand cranking the engine without the plugs, and get a pressure gauge and rule this out first.

Andy

Don't ever think that a newish looking oil pressure switch can be in working condition.I've had brand new ones leak oil and oil light on when there is nothing wrong with the engine.

Before you try and find an oil pressure guage just do as others have suggested and undo the oil pressure switch,take coil lead off and crank engine over to see if oil pumps out.If oil pumps out then its a good indication that the pump is okay.Or take the rocker cover off as has been suggested already and start the engine.Look to see if there is oil slowly pumping out of the rocker bleed holes, again, a good indication that the pump is at least working and pumping oil.

Andy
Don't know if I'm any help

My oil pressure light always flashed on as soon as i pulled up at the first set of traffic lights after driving any long distance. But mine would then go out as soon as you start moving

My mechanic stopped putting u beaut modern oil in it and went back to using treacle and problem went away

He said it wasn't a problem, just the new oils thinned out when hot (or something like that ?? It was along time ago, when I had the grey motor....   I think.....and I'm not good at remembering mechanical stuff)

 8) 8) 8)

Yep, thinner viscosity modern oils, a hot engine and a low idle speed can cause the light to either come on constantly or flicker at idle but if it flickers at higher engine speeds or stays on you will have to investigate further.Sometimes just changing to a higher grade oil and engine idle speed adjustment if it is a bit low can solve the problem but if you suspect a faulty pump then by all means test to see if that is the fault.

Yep, pulled the plugs and oil switch out and cranked it over this afternoon, not even a drop to be seen coming out.

Bummer.

OK then it can be taken that there is an internal problem since you've now found the pump doesn't appear to be working.

Have you checked that the Distributor is fitted properly, as the distributor drives the oil pump??

Distributor was working fine, I pulled it out, looks brand new.

Anyone in Canberra have an engine hoist I can borrow to get the engine out? unfortunately my garage has a gyp rock ceiling so I can't lift it with a b&t.

I wouldn't mind a second opinion on the pump problem once I get the engine out if anyone in the ACT has some time?

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I cant believe she is off the road already, haven't even had her a month yet! Here's a pic from when we got off the ferry from Tasmania, the drive home made for a fun road trip.

(http://andyjames.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/album01/tassie05.jpg)
(http://andyjames.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/album01/tassie02.jpg)

Andy

Rather than crank the engine over for too long without oil pressure. Remove distributor and oil pressure switch.Fit oil pressure gauge. Fit an old distributor shaft minus the gear to a drill and turn the oil pump. If you don't have a gauge watch for oil coming out of the oil pressure switch gallery. If you have no oil squirting out the fault may be the oil pump or a blockage. You can also watch for oil at the rocker shafts if you decide not to remove the oil pressure switch.
This is a great way to prime an engine to ensure instant oil pressure.

Regards Seb

PM sent.

Andy, Although your distributor may be working fine, if it's not installed correctly it won't be driving the oil pump. I suggest you try Seb's idea.

Cheers,

Graham

I tested it out with a screwdriver and battery drill, I DO get oil coming out the pressure gauge hole, then as Colt suggested I then put the gauge back in and turned on the ignition (without starting the car), with the drill turning the pump the pressure light on the dash went off.

When I removed the screwdriver it was covered in fine metal shavings (the driver I used was one of those magnetic ones) So my guess is that the slot that drives the pump got stripped out down the length of the distributor tongue. If I push the screwdriver in further than the distributor normally goes, the pump starts to engage.

So I have another newbe question, I have got the sump all unscrewed and need to remove the steering arm so I can get the sump out past it (the steering is HR) is there some trick/tool for unlocking the big nuts on the idler arm? I have always taken my cars to a mechanic to get steering work/alignments done in the past.

(I Havn't bought a FC/HR manual yet, I am sure it would explain the step by step process in there)

Andy

Andy, I have a workshop manual here you can have for free, it's a bit grubby, well used but has all its pages. If any use to you message me with your address and I'll try to get it in the post Monday or Tuesday.
Cheers, Darcy

The slot in the oil pump drive it quite wide. If you put a blade screwdriver down there it could have slipped and either taken metal from itself or gouged out the edge of the drive slot leading to the shavings you noticed.

Have you made sure that the dizzy is seated low enough? I fully rebuilt/detailed and refitted that dizzy and you should check that it is seating right home. 

To do this loosen the flat bladed screw that holds the clamp around the dizzy base and refit the dizzy, making sure that the oil pump drive/dizzy engage correctly. You can usually feel this point and can identify it by the 'o' ring on the dizzy shaft going below the block casting. Once its in far enough then lock it all up and crank the engine sparingly to see if you have pressure.

If this fails I'd be friendly to Col or Graham from the ACT club and see if they'll come around and help you out. Better to get an experienced eye on it before pulling it apart too much further.

The car hadn't done any work really before it was sold on (12 miles....) and so we didn't get to iron out the inevitable bugs.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, she's back on the road.

Well!  What was the problem?

Keith

^^^ x 2

Very interested.